MSI mag z390 tomahawk mb, will an intel ax200 work?

[stingray230sx]

so much confusion out there, but Im just overwhelmed as to whether I can use the ax200 or must use the CNVi0-1 9560 ??

I have a Asus RT-AX82U 5400 router so I could take advantage of it

all the ads on Newegg and Amazon for the ax200 say not for CNVi but some threads indicate it works but I cant nail down if my mb will work or not.

thanks

doug

[BillBill]

21 minutes ago, stingray230sx said:

so much confusion out there, but Im just overwhelmed as to whether I can use the ax200 or must use the CNVi0-1 9560 ??

I have a Asus RT-AX82U 5400 router so I could take advantage of it

all the ads on Newegg and Amazon for the ax200 say not for CNVi but some threads indicate it works but I cant nail down if my mb will work or not.

thanks

doug

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-Z390-TOMAHAWK/Specification

 

• 1 x M.2 slot (Key E) for an Intel^® CNVi wireless module only
• https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000026155/wireless.html
• The intel website lists the CNVi ones that you can use. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

37 minutes ago, stingray230sx said:

so much confusion out there, but Im just overwhelmed as to whether I can use the ax200 or must use the CNVi0-1 9560 ??

I have a Asus RT-AX82U 5400 router so I could take advantage of it

all the ads on Newegg and Amazon for the ax200 say not for CNVi but some threads indicate it works but I cant nail down if my mb will work or not.

thanks

doug

Its luck of the draw, if it is indeed wired for CNVi only then no, but there is always a chance unofficially its wired for PCIe too which may be why some people had luck getting them to work.

One option would be to buy a cheap AX200 PCIe adapter and remove the AX200 M.2 card from it, see if it works in the M.2 slot.  If it doesn't you can still put it back in the PCIe adapter and use it there.

Though I'd go for an AX210 or BE200 instead if possible, the latter being the newest.

[BillBill]

3 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Its luck of the draw, if it is indeed wired for CNVi only then no, but there is always a chance unofficially its wired for PCIe too which may be why some people had luck getting them to work.

One option would be to buy a cheap AX200 PCIe adapter and remove the AX200 M.2 card from it, see if it works in the M.2 slot.  If it doesn't you can still put it back in the PCIe adapter and use it there.

Though I'd go for an AX210 or BE200 instead if possible, the latter being the newest.

The AX211 is the equivalent to the AX210 but the AX211 is CNVi   

[stingray230sx]

1 hour ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Its luck of the draw, if it is indeed wired for CNVi only then no, but there is always a chance unofficially its wired for PCIe too which may be why some people had luck getting them to work.

One option would be to buy a cheap AX200 PCIe adapter and remove the AX200 M.2 card from it, see if it works in the M.2 slot.  If it doesn't you can still put it back in the PCIe adapter and use it there.

Though I'd go for an AX210 or BE200 instead if possible, the latter being the newest.

yes, as BillBill shows the MSI specs "does" say CNVi but I have read at least one thread that indicates the Pcie cards work, hence my hope more experience has followed down this path, though most listings for the AX200 still say NOT FOR CNVi

I think it comes down to what/how MSI did the mb, and their official stance is only CNVi

1 hour ago, BillBill said:

The AX211 is the equivalent to the AX210 but the AX211 is CNVi   

I thought the AX211 was 10th gen and above, my CPU is i9-9900 so I was sticking to the AX200 if it might work.

I have a couple older Dell laptops running the Fenvie AX1800H just fine , so I was hoping to put something decently fast in this box, as I didn't want to have to run a cat6 cable to it

[BillBill]

1 minute ago, stingray230sx said:

yes, as BillBill shows the MSI specs "does" say CNVi but I have read at least one thread that indicates the Pcie cards work, hence my hope more experience has followed down this path, though most listings for the AX200 still say NOT FOR CNVi

I think it comes down to what/how MSI did the mb, and their official stance is only CNVi

I thought the AX211 was 10th gen and above, my CPU is i9-9900 so I was sticking to the AX200 if it might work.

I have a couple older Dell laptops running the Fenvie AX1800H just fine , so I was hoping to put something decently fast in this box, as I didn't want to have to run a cat6 cable to it

These Intel® Wireless Adapters are CRF modules that support Intel® Integrated Connectivity:

• Intel® Wi-Fi 6E AX411
• Intel® Wi-Fi 6E AX211
• Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX203
• Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX201
• Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX101
• Intel® Wireless-AC 9560
• Intel® Wireless-AC 9462
• Intel® Wireless-AC 9461
• This is a list of CNVi cards 

[BillBill]

8 minutes ago, stingray230sx said:

yes, as BillBill shows the MSI specs "does" say CNVi but I have read at least one thread that indicates the Pcie cards work, hence my hope more experience has followed down this path, though most listings for the AX200 still say NOT FOR CNVi

I think it comes down to what/how MSI did the mb, and their official stance is only CNVi

I thought the AX211 was 10th gen and above, my CPU is i9-9900 so I was sticking to the AX200 if it might work.

I have a couple older Dell laptops running the Fenvie AX1800H just fine , so I was hoping to put something decently fast in this box, as I didn't want to have to run a cat6 cable to it

The AX200 would work. The thing about CNVi cards is that they are made to work with intel CPU's. So any E key intel AX card would work. 

[stingray230sx]

1 hour ago, BillBill said:

These Intel® Wireless Adapters are CRF modules that support Intel® Integrated Connectivity:

• Intel® Wi-Fi 6E AX411
• Intel® Wi-Fi 6E AX211
• Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX203
• Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX201
• Intel® Wi-Fi 6 AX101
• Intel® Wireless-AC 9560
• Intel® Wireless-AC 9462
• Intel® Wireless-AC 9461
• This is a list of CNVi cards 

everything above the AC9560 is CNVio2. and everything I read is CNVio2 is 10 gen and above and not backwards compatible to CNVio1, so maybe no AX for me unless by chance the AX200 does work.

not that much $$ so I will probably try one eventually

57 minutes ago, BillBill said:

The AX200 would work. The thing about CNVi cards is that they are made to work with intel CPU's. So any E key intel AX card would work. 

If MSI didn't do something wonky, as most AX200 sellers have DOES NOT WORK WITH M2 CNVi in their descriptions, hence my original question. I saw a random post on toms Hardware about a reviewer on Amazon who got one to run on his MSI z390 A-PRO, so i dunno

[BillBill]

9 minutes ago, stingray230sx said:

everything above the AC9560 is CNVio2. and everything I read is CNVio2 is 10 gen and above and not backwards compatible to CNVio1, so maybe no AX for me unless by chance the AX200 does work.

not that much $$ so I will probably try one eventually

If MSI didn't do something wonky, as most AX200 sellers have DOES NOT WORK WITH M2 CNVi in their descriptions, hence my original question. I saw a random post on toms Hardware about a reviewer on Amazon who got one to run on his MSI z390 A-PRO, so i dunno

You don't have to use a CNVi card. The CNVi is specifically made to work with intel CPU's. The technology if mostly found in laptops. It has something to do with efficacy. The AX201 is the CNVi version of the AX200. They have the same specs but with one exception the AX201 has CNVi. You are not limited to just the AX200. 

[BillBill]

30 minutes ago, stingray230sx said:

everything above the AC9560 is CNVio2. and everything I read is CNVio2 is 10 gen and above and not backwards compatible to CNVio1, so maybe no AX for me unless by chance the AX200 does work.

not that much $$ so I will probably try one eventually

If MSI didn't do something wonky, as most AX200 sellers have DOES NOT WORK WITH M2 CNVi in their descriptions, hence my original question. I saw a random post on toms Hardware about a reviewer on Amazon who got one to run on his MSI z390 A-PRO, so i dunno

CNVi is for power efficacy. So what they mean to say is. That a CNVio2 cannot utilize power efficacy paired to a 9th gen intel. 

[stingray230sx]

11 minutes ago, BillBill said:

You don't have to use a CNVi card. The CNVi is specifically made to work with intel CPU's. The technology if mostly found in laptops. It has something to do with efficacy. The AX201 is the CNVi version of the AX200. They have the same specs but with one exception the AX201 has CNVi. You are not limited to just the AX200. 

as you posted from the MSI website: 

• 1 x M.2 slot (Key E) for an Intel^® CNVi wireless module only

so the "only" was the reason for my original question, not to mention all the ads for these AX200 cards that say NOT FOR CNVi, here is an example: https://www.newegg.com/fenvi-ax200ngw-pcie-half-mini-card-m-2/p/0XM-00JK-00064?Item=9SIADXZ9H62090

this is for a laptop but others with the antennas say the same thing

2 minutes ago, BillBill said:

CNVi is for power efficacy. So what they mean to say is. That a CNVio2 cannot utilize power efficacy paired to a 9th gen intel. 

I read a lot of posts that say the CNVio2 cards cause NO BOOT ISSUES in 8/9 gen CPU's and Intel says the two formats are not compatible

[BillBill]

6 minutes ago, stingray230sx said:

as you posted from the MSI website: 

• 1 x M.2 slot (Key E) for an Intel^® CNVi wireless module only

so the "only" was the reason for my original question, not to mention all the ads for these AX200 cards that say NOT FOR CNVi, here is an example: https://www.newegg.com/fenvi-ax200ngw-pcie-half-mini-card-m-2/p/0XM-00JK-00064?Item=9SIADXZ9H62090

this is for a laptop but others with the antennas say the same thing

I read a lot of posts that say the CNVio2 cards cause NO BOOT ISSUES in 8/9 gen CPU's and Intel says the two formats are not compatible

You don't need a CNVi based card. CNVio2 technology works with the CPU for power efficacy. That's why people were having issues. MSI needs to revise their specs on the mag z390 tomahawk. 

[stingray230sx]

40 minutes ago, BillBill said:

You don't need a CNVi based card. CNVio2 technology works with the CPU for power efficacy. That's why people were having issues. MSI needs to revise their specs on the mag z390 tomahawk. 

that would be great if they would indeed clarify, however it's not a new mb so there is no interest for them to do so.

here is another I had saved on Amazon that also indicates NOT FOR CNVi: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085M7VPDP/?coliid=IF30GYHRRB1F3&colid=NAU6N9R9JTJG&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

[BillBill]

12 hours ago, stingray230sx said:

that would be great if they would indeed clarify, however it's not a new mb so there is no interest for them to do so.

here is another I had saved on Amazon that also indicates NOT FOR CNVi: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085M7VPDP/?coliid=IF30GYHRRB1F3&colid=NAU6N9R9JTJG&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

The m.2 E key socket has nothing to do with CNVi. What they mean by not for CNVi. You won't have CNVi technology. You do not need a CNVi based card. NOT FOR CNVi means that that card you had linked does not have CNVi technology CNVi is not necessary. You don't need it.   

[Alex Atkin UK]

1 hour ago, BillBill said:

The m.2 E key socket has nothing to do with CNVi. What they mean by not for CNVi. You won't have CNVi technology. You do not need a CNVi based card. NOT FOR CNVi means that that card you had linked does not have CNVi technology CNVi is not necessary. You don't need it.   

@stingray230sx Is right though, "Not for CNVi" is telling you it wont work on an M.2 ONLY wired for for CNVi.  The caveat being manufacturers revise the hardware without updating the specs, so just because the manual says that, doesn't mean they did not wire up PCIe too.  Its actually more logical to do both as it gives them flexibility to choose whatever WiFi card they can get cheapest for their WiFi included models.

 

I refer you to my signature: Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

[BillBill]

6 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

@stingray230sx Is right though, "Not for CNVi" is telling you it wont work on an M.2 ONLY wired for for CNVi.  The caveat being manufacturers revise the hardware without updating the specs, so just because the manual says that, doesn't mean they did not wire up PCIe too.  Its actually more logical to do both as it gives them flexibility to choose whatever WiFi card they can get cheapest for their WiFi included models.

 

I refer you to my signature: Upgrading Laptop/Desktop CNVIo WiFi 5 cards to PCIe WiFi6e/7

A CNVio card will work with the motherboard/CPU but will not work the CNVio2 version. I wish they would update their motherboard specs. CNVi isn't needed in this case. 

[stingray230sx]

i found this intel community post and it says ax200 and maybe ax210 ? https://community.intel.com/t5/Wireless/Intel-Wi-Fi-6E-AX211-works-in-MSI-Z390-TOMAHAWK/m-p/1557359

of course this is IF the mb will accept the pcie format and not just the CNVi spec.

 

and this intel spec page does not show a cpu limitation for the ax210, so maybe it too will work: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/204836/intel-wifi-6e-ax210-gig/specifications.html 

 

thanks for every ones help and advice

[Alex Atkin UK]

20 minutes ago, BillBill said:

A CNVio card will work with the motherboard/CPU but will not work the CNVio2 version. I wish they would update their motherboard specs. CNVi isn't needed in this case. 

CNVi should never be a requirement on a desktop PC, but its up to the manufacturer.  It was invented to benefit Intel by ensuring the manufacturer buys WiFi cards from them.  Although no doubt on laptops it does save energy by having most of the WiFi processing in the CPU itself, CNVi cards are not much more than the radio transmitters themselves.

 

Its rather annoying as that "not much more" is what breaks compatibility between CNVIo v1 and V2, if they were just the radios they could have been forwards compatible.  Which is what brings me back to the idea that it was deliberately to force people to upgrade their whole laptop when their WiFi becomes out of date.  On a desktop at least, you can use a normal PCIe card to get around this, if you have a spare slot.

 

A PCIe WiFi card has an entire ARM SoC on there to do the WiFi processing, as well as the radios.  So naturally they can sell CNVi cards for peanuts.

 

5 minutes ago, stingray230sx said:

i found this intel community post and it says ax200 and maybe ax210 ? https://community.intel.com/t5/Wireless/Intel-Wi-Fi-6E-AX211-works-in-MSI-Z390-TOMAHAWK/m-p/1557359

of course this is IF the mb will accept the pcie format and not just the CNVi spec.

 

and this intel spec page does not show a cpu limitation for the ax210, so maybe it too will work: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/204836/intel-wifi-6e-ax210-gig/specifications.html 

 

thanks for every ones help and advice

I don't think there is maybe, if it supports the AX200, it should support the AX210 and BE200, or any M.2 PCIe WiFi card that fits the key of the slot.

[stingray230sx]

2 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

CNVi should never be a requirement on a desktop PC, but its up to the manufacturer.  It was invented to benefit Intel by ensuring the manufacturer buys WiFi cards from them.  Although no doubt on laptops it does save energy by having most of the WiFi processing in the CPU itself, CNVi cards are not much more than the radio transmitters themselves.

 

Its rather annoying as that "not much more" is what breaks compatibility between CNVIo v1 and V2, if they were just the radios they could have been forwards compatible.  Which is what brings me back to the idea that it was deliberately to force people to upgrade their whole laptop when their WiFi becomes out of date.  On a desktop at least, you can use a normal PCIe card to get around this, if you have a spare slot.

 

A PCIe WiFi card has an entire ARM SoC on there to do the WiFi processing, as well as the radios.  So naturally they can sell CNVi cards for peanuts.

 

I don't think there is maybe, if it supports the AX200, it should support the AX210 and BE200, or any M.2 PCIe WiFi card that fits the key of the slot.

well, I might risk the 25$ for the ax200 or ax210, but I also found this about another MSI z390 chip mb.

and they [MSI] stress the "only CNVi" in this thread on the MSI forum [cant paste the link  here] "Regarding your concern, the M.2 slot with E key on this MB can only support CNVI wifi card. Please just connect the Intel 9560 and  Intel 9462 card. Thanks!"

IF I want AX speed tri band I should probably just spend the same dollars on a PCIe card that goes in the mb PCIe slot instead of trying to fit it in the M2 slot

[Alex Atkin UK]

3 hours ago, stingray230sx said:

well, I might risk the 25$ for the ax200 or ax210, but I also found this about another MSI z390 chip mb.

and they [MSI] stress the "only CNVi" in this thread on the MSI forum [cant paste the link  here] "Regarding your concern, the M.2 slot with E key on this MB can only support CNVI wifi card. Please just connect the Intel 9560 and  Intel 9462 card. Thanks!"

IF I want AX speed tri band I should probably just spend the same dollars on a PCIe card that goes in the mb PCIe slot instead of trying to fit it in the M2 slot

That's why I suggested getting a PCIe card where the M.2 card is clearly visible.  You can then try taking it out and putting in the motherboard.  At worst it wont POST, put it back in the PCIe adapter.  If it works, then you save the PCIe slot.

I personally found the AX210 performs better than the AX200.