Off the shelf NAS or build my own

[GreenGiant117]

Budget (including currency): ~$1000 USD

Country: US

 

For the last 8 years or so, I have had a QNAP TS-451+ with 4 x 4TB HGST drives in it (in RAID 10 I'm pretty sure for data security), in the last couple weeks or so, it died, not sure exactly when but when I tried accessing it today that's when I noticed. For anyone interested I have come to learn this is a known issue with the Intel Celeron versions of this drive, specifically there is an issue with the LPC CLK signal. Fortunately I have the resources to do a quick fix to get it up and running again and am currently pulling the data off of it (I am guilty of not following the 3-2-1 rule for data, and had a lot of data only on the NAS) but that is only a temporary solution, so I will need to replace it with something in the near future.

 

I did like the QNAP, the GUI left a little to be desired, but overall it was decent to work with, and file transfers are as fast as they can be.

 

I will be looking through the usual suspects (TerraMaster, Synology, QNAP, Buffalo, etc) but I was wondering if I should take this opportunity to build something myself if it will provide more functionality within the same budget region.

 

The TS451 was not being used for much, primarily file storage, Plex and pihole duties, which will be the same on the new one. 

 

Some functions I have looked at before that either would have been too much of a hassle on the QNAP, or I need more/different external hardware for:

• NVR (to replace Ring monthly charges, most likely for Ubiquiti cameras, though open to suggestions  on those too)
• VMs (nothing very demanding)
• Virtual Assistant (to replace/work with Google assistant)
• Password management (if possible to integrate with we browsing and my phone when away from home)
• Contact syncing between mine and my wife's phones (of course I'm on Android and she's on Apple)
• Recipe book accessible on the phones
• Calendar syncing (to move away from Google Calendar/incorporate with it)

I'm sure there are other things that I cannot think of at the moment.

 

Only other things to consider:

I do already have a network rack so something rack mountable would be ideal, but not necessary.

4 bays at least for expandability

2.5 GbE at least would be preferred, though I do have infrastructure for higher if it's in the cards

3.5 inch preferred as I will likely grab a couple IronWolf or Exos drives and RAID them.

 

Any suggestions welcome.

 

Also open to suggestions/examples of your own 3-2-1 data backup solutions that won't break the bank on a monthly basis are welcome.

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

For prebuilds there is the Ugreen DXP4800 plus with 10Gbit ethernet: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/urgreen/ugreen-nasync-next-level-storage-limitless-possibilities

Disclaimer: received a DX4700 for beta testing UGOS free of charge (few months ago)

 

 

DIY will be cheaper as long as it doesn't need to be 19" Rack. Those 2U cases are $100-150. As OS there I would suggest Proxmox and the NAS-OS being one of the VMs.

[Aleph256]

56 minutes ago, GreenGiant117 said:

Also open to suggestions/examples of your own 3-2-1 data backup solutions that won't break the bank on a monthly basis are welcome

It's still a WIP, but I plan to have a NAS with less hardware away at my parents' place for the offsite backup.
"Hot" storage on my at-home NAS. "Cold" monthly backups on external HDDs.

[GreenGiant117]

15 hours ago, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

For prebuilds there is the Ugreen DXP4800 plus with 10Gbit ethernet: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/urgreen/ugreen-nasync-next-level-storage-limitless-possibilities

Disclaimer: received a DX4700 for beta testing UGOS free of charge (few months ago)

 

 

DIY will be cheaper as long as it doesn't need to be 19" Rack. Those 2U cases are $100-150. As OS there I would suggest Proxmox and the NAS-OS being one of the VMs.

I have seen some ads for the Ugreen kickstarter but was skeptical, how are they to use?

How do they seem stability and security wise?

 

The difference between a $50 case and a $100 rackmount will hardly break the bank on a project, my bigger concern would be difficulty in building it from scratch software wise. How is the process of setting up proxmox?

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

1 hour ago, GreenGiant117 said:

How do they seem stability and security wise?

 

UGOS is still work in progress. Keep in mind that all of the reviews where using a software version that was available at the time. Noticeable change since then would include SSH disabled by default or introduction of Docker. Underlaying is a Debian 12 with all current patches/updates applied.

 

Stability? There where two issues I run into that might count as stability issue and both are fixed. Other issues, also fixed, where annoyances but weren't close to harmful or causing inaccessible data.

 

1 hour ago, GreenGiant117 said:

how are they to use?

The interface has similarities to Synology, but isn't a copy of it.  Overall, I like it. One interesting aspect is the OCR and image recognition ('AI' buzzword). For example, if you store a photo of a recipe on the NAS, it can be indexed by the OCR and accessed via the content search.
Similarly, image recognition is used to automatically sort pictures into categories or display photos of the same person. Both can be disabled if you don't like the idea.

 

Build quality is outstanding. Solid aluminium case and all the plastic parts feel good. Sadly the new generation no longer has the aluminium front panel (bad for airflow, good for aesthetics).

For storage: You can define multiple storage pools (e.g. 4x HDD as RAID 5 or 6, another RAID1 with the 2x NVME SSDs and an external SSD as cache SSD). Changing the RAID type  or expanding the array without dataloss or downtime.

 

Performance with the old CPU is already good. Only the AI features might take a week or longer to complete if you upload tens of thousand of images to the NAS. The 8GB should also be fine but with Docker and VMs consider upgrading it to 16GB (upgraded mine).

 

 

Big reason why I think the Dx4800 plus is worth it over the DX4800:

SSD instead of EMMC for the OS/UGOS combined with 10 Gbit ethernet for future proofing

 

 

 

1 hour ago, GreenGiant117 said:

How is the process of setting up proxmox?

Install proxmox. Now two options either define a storage pool in proxmox or pass through the raw storage devices to the VM. 

In proxmox configure a VM and configure TrueNAS, OwnCloud or OMV like you normally would.

 

For all the other services setup separate VMs. 

[GreenGiant117]

On 4/16/2024 at 9:38 AM, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

UGOS is still work in progress. Keep in mind that all of the reviews where using a software version that was available at the time. Noticeable change since then would include SSH disabled by default or introduction of Docker. Underlaying is a Debian 12 with all current patches/updates applied.

 

Stability? There where two issues I run into that might count as stability issue and both are fixed. Other issues, also fixed, where annoyances but weren't close to harmful or causing inaccessible data.

 

The interface has similarities to Synology, but isn't a copy of it.  Overall, I like it. One interesting aspect is the OCR and image recognition ('AI' buzzword). For example, if you store a photo of a recipe on the NAS, it can be indexed by the OCR and accessed via the content search.
Similarly, image recognition is used to automatically sort pictures into categories or display photos of the same person. Both can be disabled if you don't like the idea.

 

Build quality is outstanding. Solid aluminium case and all the plastic parts feel good. Sadly the new generation no longer has the aluminium front panel (bad for airflow, good for aesthetics).

For storage: You can define multiple storage pools (e.g. 4x HDD as RAID 5 or 6, another RAID1 with the 2x NVME SSDs and an external SSD as cache SSD). Changing the RAID type  or expanding the array without dataloss or downtime.

 

Performance with the old CPU is already good. Only the AI features might take a week or longer to complete if you upload tens of thousand of images to the NAS. The 8GB should also be fine but with Docker and VMs consider upgrading it to 16GB (upgraded mine).

 

 

Big reason why I think the Dx4800 plus is worth it over the DX4800:

SSD instead of EMMC for the OS/UGOS combined with 10 Gbit ethernet for future proofing

Fantastic info there, much appreciated.

I'll definitely put them in the running.

One of the things that always frustrated me about the QNAP was the sheer volume of apps and the lack of automatic updating for that, as far as I could tell the automatic update settings never worked, so every time I actually logged into the GUI (generally once every 2-4 months) there were a million notifications that things needed to be updated. 

How well is that handled in UGOS?

 

On 4/16/2024 at 9:38 AM, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

Install proxmox. Now two options either define a storage pool in proxmox or pass through the raw storage devices to the VM. 

In proxmox configure a VM and configure TrueNAS, OwnCloud or OMV like you normally would.

 

For all the other services setup separate VMs. 

I guess I was more wondering about interface and stuff, though I guess I could just look that up.

I have dabbled with TrueNAS and similar but even with tutorials and procedures online very little is obvious when it comes to setting things up. Certain steps can only be done via SSH, or you need a software engineering degree in order to get a storage pool set up and available for network use/access.

[GreenGiant117]

I think I can build a NAS for almost exactly the same price as the 4800 plus, btu with the added benefit of more drive bays, expandable PCIE slots for future upgrades, and the flexibility of being a PC.

The main question comes down to, how much more time and effort is it going to take me to get the system up and running with what I want it to do.

From memory, I think it took me about a week to get the old QNAP to a state where it worked, that being a week of a couple hours a night updating things, adding functionality, etc.

Anyone have any thoughts on how long it would take to set up a basic file server using Proxmox from scratch?

Looking for basically anecdotes with personal experiences first time using Proxmox and how smoothly the process went.

 

 

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

13 hours ago, GreenGiant117 said:

One of the things that always frustrated me about the QNAP was the sheer volume of apps and the lack of automatic updating for that, as far as I could tell the automatic update settings never worked, so every time I actually logged into the GUI (generally once every 2-4 months) there were a million notifications that things needed to be updated. 

How well is that handled in UGOS?

There is a automatic update setting. Might be fully functional once the kickstart ships.

Firmware updates take approx. half an hour and require a restart (NAS can be used while the updates prepares/installs).

App updates quick. Might be half a minute per app.

 

 

13 hours ago, GreenGiant117 said:

Anyone have any thoughts on how long it would take to set up a basic file server using Proxmox from scratch?

Looking for basically anecdotes with personal experiences first time using Proxmox and how smoothly the process went.

Depends on the hardware. If everything goes smoothly approx. 2 hours to setup the VM and from there on maybe 1 -5 hours in the file server OS. I would say PC building and initial setup can be done in an afternoon or two.

 

If feasible I would stick to Asrock mainboards as their consumer BIOS are often close to enterprise/server functionality with goodies like (working) SR-IOV and PCIe bifurcation.

 

The worst BIOS I have come across till now was on a HP EliteDesk where basic virtualization was broken. This would be  an example of a system that takes a week to setup (or scrap/replace with good hardware).

[GreenGiant117]

On 4/23/2024 at 4:03 AM, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

There is a automatic update setting. Might be fully functional once the kickstart ships.

Firmware updates take approx. half an hour and require a restart (NAS can be used while the updates prepares/installs).

App updates quick. Might be half a minute per app.

Thanks for the info, there is an automatic update setting in the QNAP but it just does not work.

 

On 4/23/2024 at 4:03 AM, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

Depends on the hardware. If everything goes smoothly approx. 2 hours to setup the VM and from there on maybe 1 -5 hours in the file server OS. I would say PC building and initial setup can be done in an afternoon or two.

 

If feasible I would stick to Asrock mainboards as their consumer BIOS are often close to enterprise/server functionality with goodies like (working) SR-IOV and PCIe bifurcation.

 

The worst BIOS I have come across till now was on a HP EliteDesk where basic virtualization was broken. This would be  an example of a system that takes a week to setup (or scrap/replace with good hardware).

Sounds reasonable enough, the PC build is the easy part, done that a good 100+ times at least.

 

 

The build I put together does include an ASRock motherboard funnily enough, found an open box Z690 (overkill I know) for $75, plenty of built in Sata ports, and triple M.2 slots, two that are usable without affecting the Sata ports and are raid capable for OS redundancy.

Ideally I would like a motherboard with an IPMI but those bump the pricing to over $200 as far as I can find...

 

 

I'll definitely need to stew on it a little longer, but honestly I think I'm leaning towards building... Definitely going to see if I can find an old system I can use to try setting up Proxmox before making the plunge though.