Av receiver recommendations

[RFAurora]

Hi all, due to circumstances, I have to replace my 5.1 surround speakers.  I recently decided on the Klipsch reference cinema 5.1.4 speakers, and have them on the way.  I know I need to upgrade my AV receiver if I want to take advantage of the Atmos/height speakers.  My current AV receiver is a Yamaha RX-V379, and I am having trouble deciding on a replacement.  To keep costs down, it doesn't need 8k pass through, but I would like 4k.  I've been looking at a couple of different Onkyo AV receivers, but my budget is right around $800.

[circeseye]

4 hours ago, RFAurora said:

Hi all, due to circumstances, I have to replace my 5.1 surround speakers.  I recently decided on the Klipsch reference cinema 5.1.4 speakers, and have them on the way.  I know I need to upgrade my AV receiver if I want to take advantage of the Atmos/height speakers.  My current AV receiver is a Yamaha RX-V379, and I am having trouble deciding on a replacement.  To keep costs down, it doesn't need 8k pass through, but I would like 4k.  I've been looking at a couple of different Onkyo AV receivers, but my budget is right around $800.

your going to have to look for a used or older denon or merantz 9.1 at a 800 dollar price point. otherwise your paying over a grand easy.

 

you can get up to 7.1 under a grand but not 9.1 or better....once you jump to a 5.1.4 set up the price really jumps

 

oh and the "8k" avrs just mean it does 4k 120htz, hdmi 2.1.

 

Onkyo, denon, merantz, and yamaha all their 9.1s are above a 1000. i think the cheapest i see is Onkyo basic 9.1 for 1199. but denon has its x3700h on sale for 1199 and its a damn good avr (i have it)

[RFAurora]

2 hours ago, circeseye said:

your going to have to look for a used or older denon or merantz 9.1 at a 800 dollar price point. otherwise your paying over a grand easy.

 

you can get up to 7.1 under a grand but not 9.1 or better....once you jump to a 5.1.4 set up the price really jumps

 

oh and the "8k" avrs just mean it does 4k 120htz, hdmi 2.1.

 

Onkyo, denon, merantz, and yamaha all their 9.1s are above a 1000. i think the cheapest i see is Onkyo basic 9.1 for 1199. but denon has its x3700h on sale for 1199 and its a damn good avr (i have it)

Alright, tyvm.  Guess I'll just have to save up a little longer.

[dalekphalm]

12 hours ago, RFAurora said:

Alright, tyvm.  Guess I'll just have to save up a little longer.

I did a quick bit of research, and it seems like @circeseye is correct.

 

Denon: The lowest end AV Receiver with 9 channels (that includes 5.1.4) is the AVR-X3700H - which is about $2000 (all prices Canadian unless specified). Yamaha has the RX-A6A which is like $3200. Onkyo has the cheapest one, the TX-NR7100 - it's about $1500 Canadian, and is your best bet so far. That's about $1300 USD on US Amazon.

 

If you drop down to 5.1.2 (a 7.1/7.2 AV Receiver with Atmos) your price drops a lot, but since you've already ordered a 5.1.4 package, I wouldn't buy a 7.1/5.1.2 AV Receiver since you'll eventually have to upgrade again anyway, or you'll be wasting 2 speakers. Either return the 5.1.4 package and buy a 5.1.2 package instead, or save up for the proper AV Receiver.

[circeseye]

4 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

I did a quick bit of research, and it seems like @circeseye is correct.

 

Denon: The lowest end AV Receiver with 9 channels (that includes 5.1.4) is the AVR-X3700H - which is about $2000 (all prices Canadian unless specified). Yamaha has the RX-A6A which is like $3200. Onkyo has the cheapest one, the TX-NR7100 - it's about $1500 Canadian, and is your best bet so far. That's about $1300 USD on US Amazon.

 

If you drop down to 5.1.2 (a 7.1/7.2 AV Receiver with Atmos) your price drops a lot, but since you've already ordered a 5.1.4 package, I wouldn't buy a 7.1/5.1.2 AV Receiver since you'll eventually have to upgrade again anyway, or you'll be wasting 2 speakers. Either return the 5.1.4 package and buy a 5.1.2 package instead, or save up for the proper AV Receiver.

yea its crazy how much more costly it is going to a a 9.1 system from a 5.1 or 7.1.

and your canadian prices really make me shudder. i have a few canadian friends and dread pricing stuff for them when they ask me to look stuff up for them. especially when the price doesnt include the taxes that you guys pay

[dalekphalm]

14 minutes ago, circeseye said:

yea its crazy how much more costly it is going to a a 9.1 system from a 5.1 or 7.1.

and your canadian prices really make me shudder. i have a few canadian friends and dread pricing stuff for them when they ask me to look stuff up for them. especially when the price doesnt include the taxes that you guys pay

Yeah - it's not great. Even with the currency exchange between USD and CAD, it's often still more expensive for Canadians.

 

As for taxes - it varies per province. Here in Ontario it's 13%. That's not HORRIBLE (certainly no 20%+ VAT) but it does add up, especially on bigger purchases.

 

I bought myself a brand new Yamaha RX-V385 AV Receiver about a year or two ago and paid $350 + tax (just under $400 total). I'm sure that AV Receiver would be a lot cheaper in the US, but for Canada this was a pretty good deal.

[cmndr]

One FYI, unless you get it one fire sale, Klipsch usually charges WAY too much for what you get. At any given time there's a 50-50 chance Klipsch parts are on sale. If they're not on sale, you got ripped off VERY badly. If they are on sale, you got a so-so deal at best. 

Polk, Emotiva, ELAC, JBL and a few others often deliver better far better value at a given price point. Also one thing to be aware of, Polk speakers tend to be "bright" this means that in a show room setting they sound a bit better for the first few minutes. Once you get them home and listen for an hour your ears might start bothering you a bit. I usually roll off my highs in my AVR. 


As far as getting 5.X.4 sound - I paid around $1000ish after tax for a refurbished Marantz SR6013. This is about the cheapest way to get 9+ channels of sound. 

If you're OK with 7 channels of sound instead of 9/11 then you can get away with FAR FAR cheaper AVRs. I bought a used x3200w for $200 a few weeks ago. 7 channels. 

---------

If you're modest on funds... get something like a "Klipsch Black Reference Theater Pack 5" on sale (craigslist?) for as little as $150ish. Don't even bother using the center. Buy two GOOD L+R speakers (Polk R100 when they go on sale, Emotiva B1+, JBL 530s if they're on sale for $240ish) that image well (can be done later). Get a budget 7 channel AVR. Put the rest into a good used subwoofer or two. The cheepo Klipsch speakers become surrounds and height speakers for atmos. The good speakers get used for 2 channel music and the bulk of the audio that pops out in moves. 

[RFAurora]

I thank everyone for the replies and helping me out on this issue.  I still have to decide whether I want a 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 AV receiver, but whichever one I get, I want it to have a Zone 2 HDMI out so I can use the Dish Joey in both rooms I'm set up in without having to have a second joey.

[cmndr]

On 1/10/2023 at 12:56 PM, RFAurora said:

I thank everyone for the replies and helping me out on this issue.  I still have to decide whether I want a 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 AV receiver, but whichever one I get, I want it to have a Zone 2 HDMI out so I can use the Dish Joey in both rooms I'm set up in without having to have a second joey.

If you're in an area with reasonable internet connectivity, kill Dish TV and switch to a streaming service. It's like half the cost, image quality is often a little higher (ESPECIALLY for local channels)

As far as 5.1.2 vs 5.1.4:

You can get OK 5.1.2 (e.g. Denon s760h) for as low as $260-350ish new from Costco. Jumping to 5.1.4 is often 2-3x the cost (I have no idea why) though you can find used units (e.g. SR6013/6014/6015) for something like $800-900, which also supports 7.1.4 if you get a budget amp (e.g. Aiyima A07 which I mentioned before). 4 height channels allows front/back panning which helps. Most Disney streaming content is mixed for 7.1.4 (read: not "proper" atmos content, it's actually 11 discrete channels) and sounds pretty solid on my 7.2.4 set up.

[RFAurora]

7 hours ago, cmndr said:

If you're in an area with reasonable internet connectivity, kill Dish TV and switch to a streaming service. It's like half the cost, image quality is often a little higher (ESPECIALLY for local channels)

As far as 5.1.2 vs 5.1.4:

You can get OK 5.1.2 (e.g. Denon s760h) for as low as $260-350ish new from Costco. Jumping to 5.1.4 is often 2-3x the cost (I have no idea why) though you can find used units (e.g. SR6013/6014/6015) for something like $800-900, which also supports 7.1.4 if you get a budget amp (e.g. Aiyima A07 which I mentioned before). 4 height channels allows front/back panning which helps. Most Disney streaming content is mixed for 7.1.4 (read: not "proper" atmos content, it's actually 11 discrete channels) and sounds pretty solid on my 7.2.4 set up.

Sadly, I’m limited to 6MBps downstream connection.  I’d love to switch to a something like YouTube for all my TV, but I don’t think it’d work too well with 3-4 TVs all trying to watch something at the same time.

[tokehgekko]

The AIO solutions these days for processing and amplifiers are over, i would suggest a separate processor and amplifier/amplifiers.

This will reduce the cost to upgrade in the future when the processor is obsolete, since you can keep using the amplifier.

800$ wont get you very far in 2023 unless you are OK with a basic 5.1 with next to no ooomph in the amplifiers.

 

EDIT: I should mention that is still use an ancient Onkyo TX-NR708, but have looked at upgrading but always fellt meeeeh, when checking the powerratings (the maximum draw from wall) of newer stuff, and also the weights.

Amplifiers that are heavy pack more punch 9/10 times, i have compared heavy amplifiers with lowish output specs vs light amplifiers with higher specs, and the heavys always win.

[cmndr]

On 1/20/2023 at 11:04 PM, RFAurora said:

Sadly, I’m limited to 6MBps downstream connection.  I’d love to switch to a something like YouTube for all my TV, but I don’t think it’d work too well with 3-4 TVs all trying to watch something at the same time.

I'm a tech evangelist that sees a tech solution where some might not exist... feel free to roll your eyes and be like "this guy"

Is Starlink a possibility. 
https://www.starlink.com/map

[dalekphalm]

On 1/20/2023 at 6:09 PM, cmndr said:

If you're in an area with reasonable internet connectivity, kill Dish TV and switch to a streaming service. It's like half the cost, image quality is often a little higher (ESPECIALLY for local channels)

As far as 5.1.2 vs 5.1.4:

You can get OK 5.1.2 (e.g. Denon s760h) for as low as $260-350ish new from Costco. Jumping to 5.1.4 is often 2-3x the cost (I have no idea why) though you can find used units (e.g. SR6013/6014/6015) for something like $800-900, which also supports 7.1.4 if you get a budget amp (e.g. Aiyima A07 which I mentioned before). 4 height channels allows front/back panning which helps. Most Disney streaming content is mixed for 7.1.4 (read: not "proper" atmos content, it's actually 11 discrete channels) and sounds pretty solid on my 7.2.4 set up.

From my own research the general consensus is that 5.x.4 is superior to 7.x.2, as having only 2 height channels really limits how good the ATMOS effect is. having x.x.4 with 4 height channels apparently gives it much more detailed directional audio (panning front to back as well as side to side).

[cmndr]

12 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

From my own research the general consensus is that 5.x.4 is superior to 7.x.2, as having only 2 height channels really limits how good the ATMOS effect is. having x.x.4 with 4 height channels apparently gives it much more detailed directional audio (panning front to back as well as side to side).

note that I was mainly touching on 7 channel vs 9 channel AVRs. 9+ channel AVRs often cost 2x as much for some reason. 

[dalekphalm]

17 minutes ago, cmndr said:

note that I was mainly touching on 7 channel vs 9 channel AVRs. 9+ channel AVRs often cost 2x as much for some reason. 

I don't disagree with you there. But OP was asking about the difference between 2 height channels vs 4. Yes, the additional 2 channels to get to a 9-channel AVR is quite expensive, but on the other hand, I've heard it's a huge improvement (and if you get to 9 channels, most people say it's more worth it to go 5.x.4 over 7.x.2).

[cmndr]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

I don't disagree with you there. But OP was asking about the difference between 2 height channels vs 4. Yes, the additional 2 channels to get to a 9-channel AVR is quite expensive, but on the other hand, I've heard it's a huge improvement (and if you get to 9 channels, most people say it's more worth it to go 5.x.4 over 7.x.2).

Those sentiments I've also read. 

In my own anecdotal experience I don't remember getting a huge boost when I went from 5.1.2 to 5.1.4 (maybe I wasn't looking for it or it was my room). I do remember a nice boost when I went to 7.1.4 next, potentially because the speaker on my side was blasting my ear off and that distributed the sound a bit more. 
When I was taking down my system and went from 7.1.4 to 5.1 temporarily it was a big decrease and my friend who was with me noticed it. VERY different. 

One thing to note, the same speakers set to top front vs top height matters. There IS an impact. I probably had the "wrong" one set when I didn't notice the jump from 5.1.2 to 5.1.4. 

[RFAurora]

On 1/22/2023 at 5:58 PM, cmndr said:

I'm a tech evangelist that sees a tech solution where some might not exist... feel free to roll your eyes and be like "this guy"

Is Starlink a possibility. 
https://www.starlink.com/map

The map says that they expect to expand to where I am this year.  I'd have to see how well it is for gaming as well as I had Hughesnet over a decade ago, and the latency and ping was horrible on it.

[cmndr]

11 hours ago, RFAurora said:

The map says that they expect to expand to where I am this year.  I'd have to see how well it is for gaming as well as I had Hughesnet over a decade ago, and the latency and ping was horrible on it.

Low earth orbit satellites are around 350 miles from orbit. 

Geostationary satellites are 22,236 miles from orbit. Best case scenario you'd expect about 60x better ping than a geostationary satellite assuming 0 data processing times.

For short distances (think 20 miles away on ground), a wire wins on latency by a little. For going from say LA to London, the satellites win on latency by a little. 

The main issue currently popping up is that there's some congestion from too many people using it. There's some hand waving and promises that the next generation of satellite will resolve that. 

https://www.pcmag.com/news/is-starlink-good-for-gaming-we-put-spacexs-satellite-service-to-the-test#:~:text=Starlink promises latency of 20,day-to-day use.

Not a miracle by any means but as low as 20ms is the promise and 40-50ms seems the norm right now. I expect it'll get better with time but... that's speculation. Amazon is also trying to do something similar(project kuiper). Geostationary satellite looks like it's 500-800ms in comparison which is... EUGH. 

[RFAurora]

On 1/29/2023 at 12:07 PM, cmndr said:

Low earth orbit satellites are around 350 miles from orbit. 

Geostationary satellites are 22,236 miles from orbit. Best case scenario you'd expect about 60x better ping than a geostationary satellite assuming 0 data processing times.

For short distances (think 20 miles away on ground), a wire wins on latency by a little. For going from say LA to London, the satellites win on latency by a little. 

The main issue currently popping up is that there's some congestion from too many people using it. There's some hand waving and promises that the next generation of satellite will resolve that. 

https://www.pcmag.com/news/is-starlink-good-for-gaming-we-put-spacexs-satellite-service-to-the-test#:~:text=Starlink promises latency of 20,day-to-day use.

Not a miracle by any means but as low as 20ms is the promise and 40-50ms seems the norm right now. I expect it'll get better with time but... that's speculation. Amazon is also trying to do something similar(project kuiper). Geostationary satellite looks like it's 500-800ms in comparison which is... EUGH. 

That is interesting, and I'll keep an eye on it.  Might be next year before I do get it if they do expand out here.  Have to redo some electrical and run ethernet cable to the toher end of the house in addition to getting a new AV receiver this year.