New build performance questions

[Tobbler]

Hey all,

for the first time, I built my gaming pc by myself, and surprisingly, it all worked out well. But I have a few questions, just to be sure the numbers I am seeing are nothing out of the ordinary, as I’m not the most experienced person in those areas:

- I am running a i5-13600k with an 280mm AIO and the temperature tops out at around 70-73°C when stressing all cores for multiple minutes. Because it’s the first time using an AIO I just wanted to confirm these are not out of the ordinary as I have no idea which temps are normal here.

- I am using 32GB of DDR5-6000 and have activated the corresponding XMP profile in the Bios. When checking with a software like CPU-Z, frequency shows only about 3000MHz everywhere. I think this is normal, as the speed is double the frequency, but I just wanted to confirm

 

Thanks in advance!

[Gilgamang]

The RAM numbers are normal as you have said. I don't know if those temps are normal for your specific cooler, but Intel lists the max temperature as 100 C so you are fine.

 

Intel® Core™ i5-13600K Processor

[Bombastinator]

52 minutes ago, Tobbler said:

Hey all,

for the first time, I built my gaming pc by myself, and surprisingly, it all worked out well. But I have a few questions, just to be sure the numbers I am seeing are nothing out of the ordinary, as I’m not the most experienced person in those areas:

- I am running a i5-13600k with an 280mm AIO and the temperature tops out at around 70-73°C when stressing all cores for multiple minutes. Because it’s the first time using an AIO I just wanted to confirm these are not out of the ordinary as I have no idea which temps are normal here.

- I am using 32GB of DDR5-6000 and have activated the corresponding XMP profile in the Bios. When checking with a software like CPU-Z, frequency shows only about 3000MHz everywhere. I think this is normal, as the speed is double the frequency, but I just wanted to confirm

 

Thanks in advance!

Strikes me as just about perfect.  Doesn’t push your silicon into degradation temperatures so you should be able to run it for many years that way, but it’s right near the top of that so you’re wasting minimum energy on fans and stuff.  Are you overclocked?  That’s really what big AIOs on intel chips and k processors are for. 280 AIOs aren’t as good as 360 AIOs because 140mm fans don’t produce static pressure very well so the rads tend to be thin. If I was building that system myself (and I sort of almost did) I would have gone big air.  Your AIO is in hand though. I am not a proponent of rgb and AIOs are a low effort way to do that, so it perhaps holds less appeal for me.

 

I don’t know what the actual degradation rates for 13th gen silicon is.  Even at 95c the thing is likely to last out the duty cycle.  The number in 4th gen was “don’t go above 75°c” which was based on degradation of SOI 48nm.  Supposedly even solid state stuff eventually dies because at the atomic level dendrites form, etc.. and the hotter and smaller it is the faster it happens.  For all I know there isn’t much in the was of atomic level degradation for 13th gen @95°c. The problem is the devs are corporate, and corporate only cares about cost to warranty.  Atomic level degradation over time may not be worked into their math, so the number isn’t trustable.  I keep on hoping some researcher will call me an idiot for doing it because it’s based on 15 year old info about a totally different thing and I don’t know my ass from a hole in the ground about this (which is true) but it hasn’t happened yet.  It’s just the number I was given many years ago.  Low temps are for people who want to extend the duty cycle.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Max Tech Tips]

under load 70-73°C is max with out overclock,I used to use water cooling, now I switched to air cooling because of the pump, which can stop working over time

[Max Tech Tips]

i use water cooling on other pc

[Bombastinator]

21 minutes ago, Max Tech Tips said:

under load 70-73°C is max with out overclock,I used to use water cooling, now I switched to air cooling because of the pump, which can stop working over time

More fan noise less pump noise.  The bugbear for me and AIOs was pump noise.  I tried two, and  I couldn’t get the bubbles to go away and it was louder than the fans on air-cooling. The two limitations to air cooling imho is there is a hard limit on surface area available and fan count.  This is what makes the performance envelope for air.  AIOs can be the only way to go if you’re outside the envelope. A 240 AIO is inside the envelope of air generally so there are only very specific situations where they make sense.Open loop (AIOs are always closed loop) can be incredibly quiet though and is more or less the gold standard for quiet power.  As long as you have enough radiator Sq. There is no limit to wastage transfer.  air on computers is limited by the amount of space available on the board, and heat propagation through a material type.  On atx it in practice comes out to barely under 300w for a cpu. There just isn’t room for more.  My rule set goes <66w= stock cooler, 66-100= small aftermarket (up to 3pipe), 101-125 4 pipe, 126-180 = 5 pipe, 180-250 big air, 250+ water.  I like things quiet.  If you don’t care about fan noise you can probably shift those about 50°

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Tobbler]

28 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Strikes me as just about perfect.  Doesn’t push your silicon into degradation temperatures so you should be able to run it for many years that way, but it’s right near the top of that so you’re wasting minimum energy on fans and stuff.  Are you overclocked?  That’s really what big AIOs on intel chips and k processors are for. 280 AIOs aren’t as good as 360 AIOs because 140mm fans don’t produce static pressure very well so the rads tend to be thin. If I was building that system myself (and I sort of almost did) I would have gone big air.  Your AIO is in hand though. I am not a proponent of rgb and AIOs are a low effort way to do that, so it perhaps holds less appeal for me.

 

I don’t know what the actual degradation rates for 13th gen silicon is.  Even at 95c the thing is likely to last out the duty cycle.  The number in 4th gen was “don’t go above 75°c” which was based on degradation of SOI 48nm.  Supposedly even solid state stuff eventually dies because at the atomic level dendrites form, etc.. and the hotter and smaller it is the faster it happens.  For all I know there isn’t much in the was of atomic level degradation for 13th gen @95°c. The problem is the devs are corporate, and corporate only cares about cost to warranty.  Atomic level degradation over time may not be worked into their math, so the number isn’t trustable.  I keep on hoping some researcher will call me an idiot for doing it because it’s based on 15 year old info about a totally different thing and I don’t know my ass from a hole in the ground about this (which is true) but it hasn’t happened yet.  It’s just the number I was given many years ago.  Low temps are for people who want to extend the duty cycle.

Wow, thanks for the detailed answer, that definitely reassures me I put everything on correctly. No, I’m not overclocked atm and don’t plan to, would have gone with a 360 rad if my case fit one though

11 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

More fan noise less pump noise.  The bugbear for me and AIOs was pump noise.  I tried two, and  I couldn’t get the bubbles to go away and it was louder than the fans on air-cooling. The two limitations to air cooling imho is there is a hard limit on surface area available and fan count.  This is what makes the performance envelope for air.  AIOs can be the only way to go if you’re outside the envelope. A 240 AIO is inside the envelope of air generally so there are only very specific situations where they make sense.Open loop (AIOs are always closed loop) can be incredibly quiet though and is more or less the gold standard for quiet power.

I gotta say moving from a air to AIO liquid cooler, the AIO (I have an Arctic liquid freezer II) is near unhearable in comparison to my previous air cooler. Even when the COU is at 100%, I can hear the fans a bit but the pump is dead quiet.

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, Tobbler said:

Wow, thanks for the detailed answer, that definitely reassures me I put everything on correctly. No, I’m not overclocked atm and don’t plan to, would have gone with a 360 rad if my case fit one though

I gotta say moving from a air to AIO liquid cooler, the AIO (I have an Arctic liquid freezer II) is near unhearable in comparison to my previous air cooler. Even when the COU is at 100%, I can hear the fans a bit but the pump is dead quiet.

You got lucky where as I did not then. If you want to OC There is room on that cooler. I tried twice and bubbles in the pump just wouldn’t go away.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Bombastinator]

I wound up putting a big air cooler on a 65w chip that I thought I was going to OC into the 200w range. This wound up not happening and I couldn’t return the cooler but it’s so big it runs the thing passive.  I took the fans off and put them back in the box because it was wasting a fan port, and try as I might I can’t hit 60°c with no fans at all.