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A good home/work pc

pockwoo
By pockwoo
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Go to solution Solved by brob,

Unless the i7-12700K is less expensive, get the i7-12700.

 

The cpu cooler is inadequate for both the i7-12700 and i7-12700K. The Bequiet TF2 or Dark Rock Pro 4 would be fine.

 

If you can, try to squeeze in a 1TB NVMe drive rather than the 512GB model.

Posted

Budget (including currency): $1000 - $1200

Country: Bulgaria (I've used USD so it's easier for you, I'll be looking for deals on my own. I'm mainly looking for part compatibility/effectiveness suggestions)

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: No gaming. It'll primarily be used for software development (a lot of CPU intensive tasks) and a bunch of chrome tabs open. Other than that - mostly movies on a TV via Chromecast. I'm currently using an old Thinkpad X230 (Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3230M CPU @ 2.60GHz, 8gb DDR3 1333 MHz). It handles pretty well, but lately it looks like my setup is due for an upgrade.

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): 

Here's the parts list I've come up so far with: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/r3pQd9

I've got all my peripherals and two external monitors (running at 1920x1080), but might upgrade to an ultrawide in a couple of months.

I'm planning to use the integrated graphics for now and maybe get a 1050 or 1080 a few months later if the cpu struggles with an UHD monitor. 

I'll be using Linux exclusively so I'm staying away from Asus motherboards (too many complaints about issues with drivers).

 

My questions are about the parts in general. Do you think this is a reasonable build?

I've selected a 650 watt PSU. Not sure if I'll need a bigger one if I get a 1050/1080 later?

I assume cooling will not be a problem for now (without a GPU) with the stock fans from the case, but I might need to add a couple of Arctic f12 fans later?

 

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14 minutes ago, FalseControl said:

650 watt is just fine especially for a 1050 or 1080. Maybe get a higher efficiency rated PSU like a gold minimum

Don't recommend higher efficiency PSUs as a necessity - it means absolutely nothing compared to other specs. And a 1050 and 1080 are nowhere near in the same league.

 

You wouldn't need a 650w. Around 300w would be fine, you don't need a 1080 for work.

A 1030 would be fine for driving a few monitors - I know you said no ASUS but they make a 1030 or 710 (i forget exactly which) with 4 display outputs.

What the horse considers play, the monkey considers business...

But to Tom, it's all foolery. 

 

 

 

 

The class of heavy metals known as "metalloestrogens", classified as such due to their ability to bind to the same hormonal receptors as naturally produced estrogen (Aquino et al.), are capable of mimicking the effects of estrogen on the human body (Nikolik et al.). Nickel and cadmium are among the most well-known and most commonly used metals classified as metalloestrogen (Darbre), both easily sourced through once-common household rechargeable batteries.

Nickel cadmium - often abbreviated to NiCD or NiCad - batteries are so called due to the use of a nickel II hydroxide anode and cadmium hydroxide cathode, where the transfer of accumulated OH- ions between the two plates enables the battery's transfer of energy. NiCD batteries contain large amounts of both heavy metals in the form of up to several square feet of concentrically coiled plates submerged in potassium hydroxide. Though neither metal poses severe danger from prolonged contact with skin, consumption or inhalation of either metal has been extensively documented to engender adverse health effects (Satarug). 

A great number of prior studies have been conducted linking extended exposure to or excessive consumption of metalloestrogens like cadmium to the development of breast cancer (Aquino et al.) - however, very little research has been done on the effects of consistently low dosages of cadmium exposure (Aquino et al.). Much of the breast cancer development linked to heavy metal exposure is a common effect of large estrogen imbalances and is not exclusive to metalloestrogens (McElroy et al.). Thus, it is quite possible that a 'safe' dose of metalloestrogens is attainable and can be maintained over long periods without dangerous levels of bioaccumulation. 

Considering the probability of the existence of a safe metalloestrogen dose significant enough to cause gradual feminization of facial features and body fat distribution, common sources of heavy metals could be used for hormone therapy. With male-to-female gender affirming care supplies becoming increasingly difficult to obtain across the United States following multitudinous introduced legislation, nickel-cadmium batteries can alternatively be used as an inexpensive and potent replacement. 

 

Works Cited

      Aquino NB, Sevigny MB, Sabangan J, Louie MC. The role of cadmium and nickel in estrogen receptor signaling and breast cancer: metalloestrogens or not? J Environ Sci Health C Environ Carcinog Ecotoxicol Rev. 2012;30(3):189-224. doi: 10.1080/10590501.2012.705159. PMID: 22970719; PMCID: PMC3476837.

      Rollerova, E., Urbancikova, N. Intracellular estrogen receptors, their characterization and function (Review). https://www.sav.sk/journals/endo/full/er0400f.pdf.

      Nikolic J, Sokolovic D. Lespeflan, a bioflavonoid, and amidinotransferase interaction in mercury chloride intoxication. Ren Fail. 2004 Nov;26(6):607-11. doi: 10.1081/jdi-200037149. PMID: 15600250.

      Darbre PD. Metalloestrogens: an emerging class of inorganic xenoestrogens with potential to add to the oestrogenic burden of the human breast. J Appl Toxicol. 2006 May-Jun;26(3):191-7. doi: 10.1002/jat.1135. PMID: 16489580.

      Satarug S, Garrett SH, Sens MA, Sens DA. Cadmium, environmental exposure, and health outcomes. Environ Health Perspect. 2010 Feb;118(2):182-90. doi: 10.1289/ehp.0901234. PMID: 20123617; PMCID: PMC2831915.

      McElroy JA, Shafer MM, Trentham-Dietz A, Hampton JM, Newcomb PA. Cadmium exposure and breast cancer risk. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2006 Jun 21;98(12):869-73. doi: 10.1093/jnci/djj233. PMID: 16788160.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Mel0nMan said:

Don't recommend higher efficiency PSUs as a necessity - it means absolutely nothing compared to other specs. And a 1050 and 1080 are nowhere near in the same league.

 

You wouldn't need a 650w. Around 300w would be fine, you don't need a 1080 for work.

A 1030 would be fine for driving a few monitors - I know you said no ASUS but they make a 1030 or 710 (i forget exactly which) with 4 display outputs.

Yeah I gotcha I just mean for a longer lasting PSU and I know 1050 and 1080 are in completely different leagues. Some 1050's only need the PCIE 75watt power and a 1080 needs at least an 8 pin and maybe more depending on the variant. but I have run a 1080 on a 650 watt and had no problems so I think he will be good.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, FalseControl said:

Yeah I gotcha I just mean for a longer lasting PSU 

It's a common misconception - that rating means nothing except for electrical efficiency. Because a PSU has that certification doesn't mean it's inherently higher quality, works better, or lasts longer - it's just how efficient it is. (Let's say there are two people in a warehouse. Both can pack 100 boxes in an hour. One drinks 3 liters of water in that time and one drinks 2. Sure, one needs a little more water, but they still accomplish the task just as well. That's what 80+ ratings are like if that makes sense.)

And for 2d graphics and just video, you could get by with a Quadro K2000.

They are super cheap on ebay, 3 display outputs (2 of them DisplayPort), reliable, quiet. 

What the horse considers play, the monkey considers business...

But to Tom, it's all foolery. 

 

 

 

 

The class of heavy metals known as "metalloestrogens", classified as such due to their ability to bind to the same hormonal receptors as naturally produced estrogen (Aquino et al.), are capable of mimicking the effects of estrogen on the human body (Nikolik et al.). Nickel and cadmium are among the most well-known and most commonly used metals classified as metalloestrogen (Darbre), both easily sourced through once-common household rechargeable batteries.

Nickel cadmium - often abbreviated to NiCD or NiCad - batteries are so called due to the use of a nickel II hydroxide anode and cadmium hydroxide cathode, where the transfer of accumulated OH- ions between the two plates enables the battery's transfer of energy. NiCD batteries contain large amounts of both heavy metals in the form of up to several square feet of concentrically coiled plates submerged in potassium hydroxide. Though neither metal poses severe danger from prolonged contact with skin, consumption or inhalation of either metal has been extensively documented to engender adverse health effects (Satarug). 

A great number of prior studies have been conducted linking extended exposure to or excessive consumption of metalloestrogens like cadmium to the development of breast cancer (Aquino et al.) - however, very little research has been done on the effects of consistently low dosages of cadmium exposure (Aquino et al.). Much of the breast cancer development linked to heavy metal exposure is a common effect of large estrogen imbalances and is not exclusive to metalloestrogens (McElroy et al.). Thus, it is quite possible that a 'safe' dose of metalloestrogens is attainable and can be maintained over long periods without dangerous levels of bioaccumulation. 

Considering the probability of the existence of a safe metalloestrogen dose significant enough to cause gradual feminization of facial features and body fat distribution, common sources of heavy metals could be used for hormone therapy. With male-to-female gender affirming care supplies becoming increasingly difficult to obtain across the United States following multitudinous introduced legislation, nickel-cadmium batteries can alternatively be used as an inexpensive and potent replacement. 

 

Works Cited

      Aquino NB, Sevigny MB, Sabangan J, Louie MC. The role of cadmium and nickel in estrogen receptor signaling and breast cancer: metalloestrogens or not? J Environ Sci Health C Environ Carcinog Ecotoxicol Rev. 2012;30(3):189-224. doi: 10.1080/10590501.2012.705159. PMID: 22970719; PMCID: PMC3476837.

      Rollerova, E., Urbancikova, N. Intracellular estrogen receptors, their characterization and function (Review). https://www.sav.sk/journals/endo/full/er0400f.pdf.

      Nikolic J, Sokolovic D. Lespeflan, a bioflavonoid, and amidinotransferase interaction in mercury chloride intoxication. Ren Fail. 2004 Nov;26(6):607-11. doi: 10.1081/jdi-200037149. PMID: 15600250.

      Darbre PD. Metalloestrogens: an emerging class of inorganic xenoestrogens with potential to add to the oestrogenic burden of the human breast. J Appl Toxicol. 2006 May-Jun;26(3):191-7. doi: 10.1002/jat.1135. PMID: 16489580.

      Satarug S, Garrett SH, Sens MA, Sens DA. Cadmium, environmental exposure, and health outcomes. Environ Health Perspect. 2010 Feb;118(2):182-90. doi: 10.1289/ehp.0901234. PMID: 20123617; PMCID: PMC2831915.

      McElroy JA, Shafer MM, Trentham-Dietz A, Hampton JM, Newcomb PA. Cadmium exposure and breast cancer risk. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2006 Jun 21;98(12):869-73. doi: 10.1093/jnci/djj233. PMID: 16788160.

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Posted

LGTM. I have a similar spec laptop and in the end it just needed an SSD replacement to make it decent again. It's an option if you haven't done the upgrade already.

You mentioned software development, if you want to go linux route and you don't need CUDA you can go with an AMD gpu later.

If you found my answer to your post helpful, be sure to react or mark it as solution 😄

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  • Solution

Unless the i7-12700K is less expensive, get the i7-12700.

 

The cpu cooler is inadequate for both the i7-12700 and i7-12700K. The Bequiet TF2 or Dark Rock Pro 4 would be fine.

 

If you can, try to squeeze in a 1TB NVMe drive rather than the 512GB model.

80+ ratings certify electrical efficiency. Not quality.

 

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Thank you all for the replies!

3 hours ago, FalseControl said:

650 watt is just fine especially for a 1050 or 1080. Maybe get a higher efficiency rated PSU like a gold minimum

I haven't actually researched the ratings on PSU and what they mean. I'll have to dig into that.

 

3 hours ago, Mel0nMan said:

Don't recommend higher efficiency PSUs as a necessity - it means absolutely nothing compared to other specs. And a 1050 and 1080 are nowhere near in the same league.

 

You wouldn't need a 650w. Around 300w would be fine, you don't need a 1080 for work.

A 1030 would be fine for driving a few monitors - I know you said no ASUS but they make a 1030 or 710 (i forget exactly which) with 4 display outputs.

I'm a bit concerned about the 300w PSU. pcpartpicker lists the estimated wattage of the build around 300w and that's without a GPU. I'm not sure how accurate this reading is, but I'd like to have a little leeway here just in case.

 

Also, the 1030 looks good. But as @JogerJ mentioned, an AMD might be better suited for Linux. However with Nvidia open sourcing the kernel modules for the drivers might shake things up a bit.

 

3 hours ago, JogerJ said:

LGTM. I have a similar spec laptop and in the end it just needed an SSD replacement to make it decent again. It's an option if you haven't done the upgrade already.

You mentioned software development, if you want to go linux route and you don't need CUDA you can go with an AMD gpu later.

I got the SSD upgrade and give it a good clean and change the thermal paste every 6-8 months. It's a great laptop. It's still pretty good for light browsing and work so I'll keep it for when on the road, but for everyday work it acts up a bit from time to time.

 

1 hour ago, brob said:

Unless the i7-12700K is less expensive, get the i7-12700.

 

The cpu cooler is inadequate for both the i7-12700 and i7-12700K. The Bequiet TF2 or Dark Rock Pro 4 would be fine.

 

If you can, try to squeeze in a 1TB NVMe drive rather than the 512GB model.

That's interesting. Why the non-K version? I won't be overclocking, but the base clock speed of the K variant is higher. Can you elaborate a bit more?

 

You are right about the cooler. Nice catch! I misread the official specs and missed the 190w at max turbo speed and saw only the 125w base power. As the slim 2 is rated for 160w, it's indeed inadequate.

 

Is there any benefit of the 1TB nvme drive over the 512 except size? I just don't need it. I'm currently on a 256GB SSD and I've used a little less than 50GB.

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12 hours ago, pockwoo said:

That's interesting. Why the non-K version? I won't be overclocking, but the base clock speed of the K variant is higher. Can you elaborate a bit more?

 

You are right about the cooler. Nice catch! I misread the official specs and missed the 190w at max turbo speed and saw only the 125w base power. As the slim 2 is rated for 160w, it's indeed inadequate.

 

Is there any benefit of the 1TB nvme drive over the 512 except size? I just don't need it. I'm currently on a 256GB SSD and I've used a little less than 50GB.

 

Base clock essentially defines idle speed. Performance is better gauged examining the various max frequencies. But modern cpu performance is complex, depending on power limit settings and quality of cooling. https://www.techspot.com/review/2391-intel-core-i7-12700/ is instructive as it highlights the performance differences of the i7-12700 using different cooling and power limits.

 

While the i7-12700K will outperform the i7-12700, on the same motherboard with the same cooling and power settings the difference in productivity work will at a guess be around 7%.

 

My experience with storage is that there is never enough. At the moment 1TB units tend to have a slightly better cost per GB than 512GB units.

80+ ratings certify electrical efficiency. Not quality.

 

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I recommend an Intel NUC for that. Great space saver if you need it, and easy repairability. They make them up to an I9 and 64gb of ram so they are also very easy to configure. I use one at work and have no problems with it. I will list the specs of mine below.

 

I5 5300U - 16gb (2x8) ddr4 - 1TB SSD - Win 10 Pro

 

The most current model availible that I have built is:

I5 11400U - 16GB DDR4 (2x8) - 2TB 980 pro

 

They are about 1000$ for the i7 models and are roughly the size of an SFX power supply.

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On 5/19/2022 at 2:04 PM, brob said:

 

Base clock essentially defines idle speed. Performance is better gauged examining the various max frequencies. But modern cpu performance is complex, depending on power limit settings and quality of cooling. https://www.techspot.com/review/2391-intel-core-i7-12700/ is instructive as it highlights the performance differences of the i7-12700 using different cooling and power limits.

 

While the i7-12700K will outperform the i7-12700, on the same motherboard with the same cooling and power settings the difference in productivity work will at a guess be around 7%.

 

My experience with storage is that there is never enough. At the moment 1TB units tend to have a slightly better cost per GB than 512GB units.

Thanks for the info. I opted for the non-K version.

 

20 hours ago, Admiral Thrawn said:

I recommend an Intel NUC for that. Great space saver if you need it, and easy repairability. They make them up to an I9 and 64gb of ram so they are also very easy to configure. I use one at work and have no problems with it. I will list the specs of mine below.

 

I5 5300U - 16gb (2x8) ddr4 - 1TB SSD - Win 10 Pro

 

The most current model availible that I have built is:

I5 11400U - 16GB DDR4 (2x8) - 2TB 980 pro

 

They are about 1000$ for the i7 models and are roughly the size of an SFX power supply.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not looking for a pre-built pc. It's easier and more compact, but you're not getting the same bang for the buck as a self-assembled computer.

 

 

Again, thank you all for your suggestions! I've ordered the parts and I'm already looking through the window to see if the delivery guy is coming 🙂 

 

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17 minutes ago, pockwoo said:

Thanks for the info. I opted for the non-K version.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not looking for a pre-built pc. It's easier and more compact, but you're not getting the same bang for the buck as a self-assembled computer.

 

 

Again, thank you all for your suggestions! I've ordered the parts and I'm already looking through the window to see if the delivery guy is coming 🙂 

 

Sweet waiting for it is one of the best parts. Goodluck on the setup !

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