Nvidia DCH driver problems

[Dreygor]

This may make some people in this group cringe, but I have an Omen 30L with a Ryzen 7 5800x, RTX 3070ti, 16GB HyperX RAM, running Win 11.  I just bought it this month, loaded it up and let windows fully update.  I then noticed using, I know another cringe thing, that my driver was out of date on Gforce expeience.  I first used experience to update.  When it restarted during the install the screen froze.  I had to press the restart button in order to get the computer to come back on.  Experience said the driver managed to install and that I was now on 511.79.  I went to restart windows to make sure it gets a clean restart, but it freezes on the start up screen.  Again I press the restart button to get it to load back up.  This time I choose to shut down then power back on.  This goes well.  Try to restart from windows again, and it freezes.  So I do some testing of drivers available on Nvidia's website.  After trying all the DCH drivers with the exact same results, I decided to try the old standard drivers.  Lo and behold the standard drivers work and doesn't give me a freeze on restart.  The problem i have is these older drivers may not be compatible with some new games I am looking to play such as Baldur's Gate 3 and Sons of the Forest coming out soon.  My computer should be compatible with DCH drivers since my older Omen 25L with a 1660ti running Win 10 runs the newest drivers just fine.  Please any help would be appreciated.  I get nothing fro HP support or Nvidia support, and everyone knows that Microsoft might as well not have a support center so nothing from them either.  Getting desperate, i cannot afford to get a custom build with these parts thus why i chose prebuilt.

[drdrewnatic]

1 hour ago, Dreygor said:

This may make some people in this group cringe, but I have an Omen 30L with a Ryzen 7 5800x, RTX 3070ti, 16GB HyperX RAM, running Win 11.  I just bought it this month, loaded it up and let windows fully update.  I then noticed using, I know another cringe thing, that my driver was out of date on Gforce expeience.  I first used experience to update.  When it restarted during the install the screen froze.  I had to press the restart button in order to get the computer to come back on.  Experience said the driver managed to install and that I was now on 511.79.  I went to restart windows to make sure it gets a clean restart, but it freezes on the start up screen.  Again I press the restart button to get it to load back up.  This time I choose to shut down then power back on.  This goes well.  Try to restart from windows again, and it freezes.  So I do some testing of drivers available on Nvidia's website.  After trying all the DCH drivers with the exact same results, I decided to try the old standard drivers.  Lo and behold the standard drivers work and doesn't give me a freeze on restart.  The problem i have is these older drivers may not be compatible with some new games I am looking to play such as Baldur's Gate 3 and Sons of the Forest coming out soon.  My computer should be compatible with DCH drivers since my older Omen 25L with a 1660ti running Win 10 runs the newest drivers just fine.  Please any help would be appreciated.  I get nothing fro HP support or Nvidia support, and everyone knows that Microsoft might as well not have a support center so nothing from them either.  Getting desperate, i cannot afford to get a custom build with these parts thus why i chose prebuilt.

To be clear, there are many people that know way more about these kind of issues than I do so my suggestions may be kind of basic but hope they will help.

 

What do you mean by 'old standard drivers'? Do you mean the default display drivers that ship with Windows?

 

Try going to event viewer. On the left hand side there is a drop-down menu. Go to Windows Logs -> System and see if there were any errors or warnings around the time that the system last froze. If there are any, screenshot it and add it to a post.

 

It could be that your driver install got corrupted. Try using a piece of software called Display Driver Uninstaller (DDU). It does a complete wipe of any driver install and gets rid of things that your normal uninstall can't. Just (try to) reboot the system into safe mode and follow the on-screen prompts. Once that's completed the system should reboot automatically and you can reinstall the driver using the Nvidia website. Just make sure that before you do it, you download the driver file beforehand and make sure that the system cannot connect to the internet. After the system reboots after using DDU, Windows will see that theirs no driver and try and download it for you. DO NOT LET IT DO THIS! If your using a wired connection, unplug the cable. If your using WiFi, disable the network adapter.

 

Link to a tutorial on how to use DDU:

 

Note: This person downloads the driver file after they use DDU. I'd recommend downloading it before hand and keeping you system off the internet until the driver is fully installed.

Link to download DDU: https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html

 

Again, not an expert on these kind of issues but this should give you a start.

 

P.S. Don't worry about having a prebuilt. A PC is a PC, regardless of how it's made

[Dreygor]

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us

If you look at the windows driver type drop down you'll see DCH and Standard.  This is what I ment.  They are still Nvidia drivers.  Unfortunately Nvidia no longer supports the standard drivers and all of their drivers post Aug 2021 have been DCH.  

I haven't tried using a third party driver uninstaller, however, I have used the custom install option and clicked the clean install checkbox that is supposed to fully unistall the old driver before installing the new one.  I will look for the window log though and post it when I find it.

[drdrewnatic]

18 minutes ago, Dreygor said:

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us

If you look at the windows driver type drop down you'll see DCH and Standard.  This is what I ment.  They are still Nvidia drivers.  Unfortunately Nvidia no longer supports the standard drivers and all of their drivers post Aug 2021 have been DCH.  

I haven't tried using a third party driver uninstaller, however, I have used the custom install option and clicked the clean install checkbox that is supposed to fully unistall the old driver before installing the new one.  I will look for the window log though and post it when I find it.

I see. I've never used the advanced driver search before.

 

Yeah, the 'clean install' checkbox doesn't really do a truly clean install.

 

Pro tip: If you want someone to see that you've responded to their response, try quoting them instead of replying to the thread. That way the person gets a notification seeing that you quoted them.

[Dreygor]

14 minutes ago, drdrewnatic said:

I see. I've never used the advanced driver search before.

 

Yeah, the 'clean install' checkbox doesn't really do a truly clean install.

 

Pro tip: If you want someone to see that you've responded to their response, try quoting them instead of replying to the thread. That way the person gets a notification seeing that you quoted them.

Thanks again.  At work right now, but will definitely look into this.  The worry I have is that on the Nvidia drive page if you click the ? to the right of the windows driver type it states the following:

 

Standard" packages are those that do not require the DCH driver components.

"DCH" (Declarative, Componentized, Hardware Support Apps) refers to new packages preinstalled by OEMS implementing the Microsoft Universal Driver paradigm.

DCH drivers cannot be installed over a standard system, and Standard drivers cannot be installed over a DCH system.

This really sounds to me like I can never update drivers on this computer since it seems to only work with standard and Nvidia no longer supports them.  I hope I am wrong about that since this is a $2k boat anchor then.

[drdrewnatic]

10 minutes ago, Dreygor said:

Thanks again.  At work right now, but will definitely look into this.  The worry I have is that on the Nvidia drive page if you click the ? to the right of the windows driver type it states the following:

 

Standard" packages are those that do not require the DCH driver components.

"DCH" (Declarative, Componentized, Hardware Support Apps) refers to new packages preinstalled by OEMS implementing the Microsoft Universal Driver paradigm.

DCH drivers cannot be installed over a standard system, and Standard drivers cannot be installed over a DCH system.

This really sounds to me like I can never update drivers on this computer since it seems to only work with standard and Nvidia no longer supports them.  I hope I am wrong about that since this is a $2k boat anchor then.

Any machine running Windows 10 version 1803 or later supports DCH drivers. Plus, even if it wouldn't, the installer from the Nvidia website would say that the DCH driver couldn't be installed.

[Dreygor]

5 hours ago, drdrewnatic said:

Any machine running Windows 10 version 1803 or later supports DCH drivers. Plus, even if it wouldn't, the installer from the Nvidia website would say that the DCH driver couldn't be installed.

Error    2/24/2022 2:31:20 AM    Service Control Manager    7000    None
The AMDRyzenMasterDriverV19 service failed to start due to the following error: 
The system cannot find the file specified.

Error    2/24/2022 2:48:34 AM    Service Control Manager    7023    None
The NVIDIA LocalSystem Container service terminated with the following error: 
A generic command executable returned a result that indicates failure.
 

Error    2/24/2022 2:48:34 AM    Service Control Manager    7031    None
The NVIDIA LocalSystem Container service terminated unexpectedly.  It has done this 1 time(s).  The following corrective action will be taken in 6000 milliseconds: Restart the service.

These are the faults I see.  There are a ton of the in the event viewer.

[Dreygor]

So got off the phone with HP support "obviously just a guy with a checkbox and no computer knowledge"  They are going to send me Windows 10 recovery kit that should do a full install of windows 10.  Hopfully it works.  Is there anybody here that can tell me what those error are though?

[drdrewnatic]

Hi, sorry for the delayed response.

 

11 hours ago, Dreygor said:

Error    2/24/2022 2:31:20 AM    Service Control Manager    7000    None
The AMDRyzenMasterDriverV19 service failed to start due to the following error: 
The system cannot find the file specified.

Error    2/24/2022 2:48:34 AM    Service Control Manager    7023    None
The NVIDIA LocalSystem Container service terminated with the following error: 
A generic command executable returned a result that indicates failure.
 

Error    2/24/2022 2:48:34 AM    Service Control Manager    7031    None
The NVIDIA LocalSystem Container service terminated unexpectedly.  It has done this 1 time(s).  The following corrective action will be taken in 6000 milliseconds: Restart the service.

These are the faults I see.  There are a ton of the in the event viewer.

Yeah, those are definitely GPU related issues. Can't really elaborate more than that.

 

Quote

So got off the phone with HP support "obviously just a guy with a checkbox and no computer knowledge"  They are going to send me Windows 10 recovery kit that should do a full install of windows 10.  Hopfully it works.  Is there anybody here that can tell me what those error are though?

I'm not totally sure what they mean by a recovery kit. You can just download windows 10 onto a usb stick and just re-install it that way.

 

Have you tried using DDU yet?

[Dreygor]

5 hours ago, drdrewnatic said:

Hi, sorry for the delayed response.

 

Yeah, those are definitely GPU related issues. Can't really elaborate more than that.

 

I'm not totally sure what they mean by a recovery kit. You can just download windows 10 onto a usb stick and just re-install it that way.

 

Have you tried using DDU yet?

Just used DDU and tried to install drivers 511.79.  Still crashes at load screen.  No warnings or alerts at all except from something called distributedCOM.

[drdrewnatic]

2 minutes ago, Dreygor said:

Just used DDU and tried to install drivers 511.79.  Still crashes at load screen.  No warnings or alerts at all except from something called distributedCOM.

Hmmmm. Just to confirm, when you mean "load screen", your referring to the original issue you had when you restart, it freezes.

 

Now, before you updated the driver with Geforce Experience, it was not doing this. Correct?

[Dreygor]

Correct.  

I hit restart under my windows start menu.  Screen goes black.  Comes back on with the omen symbol in the middle of a black screen with the little swirly things going, that blinks off and about a second later the screen freezes black with a thinner lighter black bar across the top.

[Dreygor]

6 minutes ago, drdrewnatic said:

Hmmmm. Just to confirm, when you mean "load screen", your referring to the original issue you had when you restart, it freezes.

 

Now, before you updated the driver with Geforce Experience, it was not doing this. Correct?

Correct.  

I hit restart under my windows start menu.  Screen goes black.  Comes back on with the omen symbol in the middle of a black screen with the little swirly things going, that blinks off and about a second later the screen freezes black with a thinner lighter black bar across the top.

[drdrewnatic]

1 minute ago, Dreygor said:

Correct.  

I hit restart under my windows start menu.  Screen goes black.  Comes back on with the omen symbol in the middle of a black screen with the little swirly things going, that blinks off and about a second later the screen freezes black with a thinner lighter black bar across the top.

And it wasn't doing this before you updated the drivers on Geforce Experience?

[Dreygor]

On my first machine I did it on experience and it did this.  So I returned that machine and got a new one, same make and model.  This time I updated from the Nvidia website directly, same result.  I am actually thinking it is a Windows issue.  The system works great with version 472.12 of Nvidia's Standard drivers, but will not work with any of the DCH Nvidia drivers.  The main difference between them are the DCH drivers are specifically designed for certain windows features as far as I can tell from my research.

4 minutes ago, drdrewnatic said:

And it wasn't doing this before you updated the drivers on Geforce Experience?

 

[drdrewnatic]

24 minutes ago, Dreygor said:

On my first machine I did it on experience and it did this.  So I returned that machine and got a new one, same make and model.  This time I updated from the Nvidia website directly, same result.  I am actually thinking it is a Windows issue.  The system works great with version 472.12 of Nvidia's Standard drivers, but will not work with any of the DCH Nvidia drivers.  The main difference between them are the DCH drivers are specifically designed for certain windows features as far as I can tell from my research.

 

Wow, that must be super frustrating. Do you know what type of drivers were installed with the machine when you first got it? I mean, in the definition that you gave it says that DCH drivers are the new ones preinstalled by OEM's and HP is an OEM so it would make sense that it would come with DCH drivers.

 

I guess my only other suggestion would be to reinstall Windows but I'm not sure that will fix anything though since it was happening on both your machines. I just can't see what would be causing the problem. Granted I'm no certified expert but I'm out of ideas.

 

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but your best bet is probably HP customer support. I mean, try to clean reinstall Windows, maybe Windows 11 is just acting up and you need to install 10. If that doesn't work, (at least from my part) try contacting them again and see what happens. Unless someone else on the forum has any other ideas, I don't really know what to tell you. Sorry about that.

[Dreygor]

39 minutes ago, drdrewnatic said:

Wow, that must be super frustrating. Do you know what type of drivers were installed with the machine when you first got it? I mean, in the definition that you gave it says that DCH drivers are the new ones preinstalled by OEM's and HP is an OEM so it would make sense that it would come with DCH drivers.

 

I guess my only other suggestion would be to reinstall Windows but I'm not sure that will fix anything though since it was happening on both your machines. I just can't see what would be causing the problem. Granted I'm no certified expert but I'm out of ideas.

 

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but your best bet is probably HP customer support. I mean, try to clean reinstall Windows, maybe Windows 11 is just acting up and you need to install 10. If that doesn't work, (at least from my part) try contacting them again and see what happens. Unless someone else on the forum has any other ideas, I don't really know what to tell you. Sorry about that.

I got until March 9th before the 15 days is up for returning the machine.  I talked with HP support and they are sending me that "repair" kit that should do a full install of Win 10 so I can get rid of Win 11.  I do have an Omen 25L with an Intel I710700, GTX 1660ti, 32GB hyperX ram and Windows 10.  Have no issues what so ever with the newest drivers on that machine.  Really think it has to do with Win 11.  I didn't look at what drivers it came with when I bought the machine.  but yeah it worked fine with the original drivers.  If a full install of win 10 doesn't fix it I will just return the Omen.  Already gave it a 1 star review on every site that sells them.

[jdeffp]

 

OLD COMPUTER stick to NON DCH drivers from nvidia.

472. Last reliable driver non DCH fully tested by Studio USERS.

gaming Drivers that are non DCH declare 472 as well.

 

Fact: cloud based computing Nvidia websharing causing intermittent service,

same holds true for multi display setups.