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SSD Trim issues

lucky.peic

So i have two samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSDs, one is inside a laptop and another is connected using SATA to USB adapter because i temporarly need to put approx 550-600GB of files onto it to transfer files to a friends pc (dont have any HDD left with enough space right now so this SSD is the only option) but the poblem i have is that windows is detecting it as HDD so im afraid that TRIM mit not be running and that putting that much files on to it is gonna wear it out quicker if TRIM wont run, interesting thing is that HD sentinel says that TRIM is supported and enabled.

 

Does HD sentinel saying TRIM is enabled means that everything is fine and that i can keep transfering files onto it trough SATA to USB adapter or do i risk uneven wear of NAND chips.

 

Does this SSD have some sort of internal wear leveling in case TRIM does not properly work in the OS?

 

As you can see in following screenshot C drive shows as SSD here and allows to run TRIM but the D drive connected using SATA to USB adapter is shown as a HDD and only allows defragmenting, for now i have disabled auto defragmenting just in case.

scrn1.PNG.0717113d7565aba4ecd8344c19bc22cc.PNG

 

 

Here is the screenshot of HD sentinel where it says TRIM is supported and enabled for the D drive connected to USB.

scrn2.thumb.PNG.b33d735e26ceada985f30e41cc9bd60d.PNG

 

 

Another screenshot from HD sentinel that says TRIM is working even though windows is seeing drive as HDD instade of SSD.

scrn3.png.a33169079e9e6b40892670476bb3a5b9.png

 

 

Which one to trust, windows saying its HDD or HD sentinel saying TRIM is enabled, is it then safe to keep transfering files to it using usb adapter?

 

 

The adapter i am using is a simple cheap one similar to this

scrn4.thumb.png.45430b4402bc61d21d36863008c6060e.png

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Download Samsung Magician, I believe it has an option inside it to manually enable a trim. Don't count me on that though. The fact that is claims the feature is enabled should mean that the SSD can do it itself, but probably lot rougher than if the OS were to help it out. 

 

If there is an OS installed to the external drive, you can unscrew the bottom of the laptop, remove the internal SSD, swap it with the external SSD, but don't plug in the USB adaptor. If it can boot into windows, see if it still recognizes the SSD as a HDD. If it says SSD, run trim this way. 

 

Also there is wear levelling, garbage collection, and trim. All three are important, but even if one is messed up for a time, hopefully the SSD's controller can recognize the nand's that are more used than others, and not right to them for a bit. 

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

Current setup: Ryzen 5 3600, MSI MPG B550, 2x8GB DDR4-3200, RX 5600 XT (+120 core, +320 Mem), 1TB WD SN550, 1TB Team MP33, 2TB Seagate Barracuda Compute, 500GB Samsung 860 Evo, Corsair 4000D Airflow, 650W 80+ Gold. Razer peripherals. 

Also have a Alienware Alpha R1: i3-4170T, GTX 860M (≈ a 750 Ti). 2x4GB DDR3L-1600, Crucial MX500

My past and current projects: VR Flight Sim: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=dG38Jx (Done!)

A do it all server for educational use: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=vmmNcf (Cancelled)

Replacement of my friend's PC nicknamed Donkey, going from 2nd gen i5 to Zen+ R5: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=WmsW4D (Done!)

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21 minutes ago, Nathanpete said:

Download Samsung Magician, I believe it has an option inside it to manually enable a trim. Don't count me on that though. The fact that is claims the feature is enabled should mean that the SSD can do it itself, but probably lot rougher than if the OS were to help it out. 

 

If there is an OS installed to the external drive, you can unscrew the bottom of the laptop, remove the internal SSD, swap it with the external SSD, but don't plug in the USB adaptor. If it can boot into windows, see if it still recognizes the SSD as a HDD. If it says SSD, run trim this way. 

 

Also there is wear levelling, garbage collection, and trim. All three are important, but even if one is messed up for a time, hopefully the SSD's controller can recognize the nand's that are more used than others, and not right to them for a bit. 

Samsung magician shows it as unknown drive due to cheap USB SATA interface, HD sentinel not only says that this drive supports trim but also that its enabled, hopefully temporarly using it using USB adapter wont affects its life, i dont really inted on using it much on USB apart from this huge data transfer that i need to do....

 

I really hope SSD controller can do wear leveling by itself in case this USB SATA interface pervents OS from doing it properly....

 

Also, there is no OS on external drive unfortunatley

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1 hour ago, lucky.peic said:

Samsung magician shows it as unknown drive due to cheap USB SATA interface, HD sentinel not only says that this drive supports trim but also that its enabled, hopefully temporarly using it using USB adapter wont affects its life, i dont really inted on using it much on USB apart from this huge data transfer that i need to do....

 

I really hope SSD controller can do wear leveling by itself in case this USB SATA interface pervents OS from doing it properly....

 

Also, there is no OS on external drive unfortunatley

Just do the big file transfer. Then transfer this data to other computer. Delete files, connect SSD to an actual SATA connection in another PC, run trim, and you will be fine. 

3 computers, but 2 and 3 could also be the same one:

  1. Computer with the files that need to be transported
  2. Computer that is to be the recipient of the transported files
  3. A computer with an available SATA connection so that you can manually initiate trim later via Disk Management. 

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

Current setup: Ryzen 5 3600, MSI MPG B550, 2x8GB DDR4-3200, RX 5600 XT (+120 core, +320 Mem), 1TB WD SN550, 1TB Team MP33, 2TB Seagate Barracuda Compute, 500GB Samsung 860 Evo, Corsair 4000D Airflow, 650W 80+ Gold. Razer peripherals. 

Also have a Alienware Alpha R1: i3-4170T, GTX 860M (≈ a 750 Ti). 2x4GB DDR3L-1600, Crucial MX500

My past and current projects: VR Flight Sim: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=dG38Jx (Done!)

A do it all server for educational use: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=vmmNcf (Cancelled)

Replacement of my friend's PC nicknamed Donkey, going from 2nd gen i5 to Zen+ R5: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=WmsW4D (Done!)

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6 minutes ago, Nathanpete said:

Just do the big file transfer. Then transfer this data to other computer. Delete files, connect SSD to an actual SATA connection in another PC, run trim, and you will be fine. 

3 computers, but 2 and 3 could also be the same one:

  1. Computer with the files that need to be transported
  2. Computer that is to be the recipient of the transported files
  3. A computer with an available SATA connection so that you can manually initiate trim later via Disk Management. 

Thanks, i can probably do that, btw, will leaving the file on the SSD for maybe one month before deleting harm anything, just in case it needs to be copied somewhere again

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Just now, lucky.peic said:

Thanks, i can probably do that, btw, will leaving the file on the SSD for maybe one month before deleting harm anything, just in case it needs to be copied somewhere again

No. A file can be kept on an SSD for nearly forever and it will never be lost or damaged. Now what can hurt an SSD is writing to it too many times. For example, the 860 Evo (I had one in my old laptop) has a TBW (or Terabytes written) limit of 300 TB. Now it can exceed that certainly, but after 300 TB you may start to see S.M.A.R.T. errors on bootup and your warranty has been voided if the period of time is not over yet. You can read the same file millions of time and it will not hurt the NAND, but if you rewrite a NAND millions of times well then you may have some dead cells. And if you had a Samsung QVO drive it would have dead cells after just 10s of thousands of writes.

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

Current setup: Ryzen 5 3600, MSI MPG B550, 2x8GB DDR4-3200, RX 5600 XT (+120 core, +320 Mem), 1TB WD SN550, 1TB Team MP33, 2TB Seagate Barracuda Compute, 500GB Samsung 860 Evo, Corsair 4000D Airflow, 650W 80+ Gold. Razer peripherals. 

Also have a Alienware Alpha R1: i3-4170T, GTX 860M (≈ a 750 Ti). 2x4GB DDR3L-1600, Crucial MX500

My past and current projects: VR Flight Sim: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=dG38Jx (Done!)

A do it all server for educational use: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=vmmNcf (Cancelled)

Replacement of my friend's PC nicknamed Donkey, going from 2nd gen i5 to Zen+ R5: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=WmsW4D (Done!)

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1 minute ago, Nathanpete said:

No. A file can be kept on an SSD for nearly forever and it will never be lost or damaged. Now what can hurt an SSD is writing to it too many times. For example, the 860 Evo (I had one in my old laptop) has a TBW (or Terabytes written) limit of 300 TB. Now it can exceed that certainly, but after 300 TB you may start to see S.M.A.R.T. errors on bootup and your warranty has been voided if the period of time is not over yet. You can read the same file millions of time and it will not hurt the NAND, but if you rewrite a NAND millions of times well then you may have some dead cells. And if you had a Samsung QVO drive it would have dead cells after just 10s of thousands of writes.

According to samsung website this 1TB model has 600TBW

 

So my best bet would be to run trim after copying all the files and deleting them.

 

one more thing, how for example downloading a torrent affects its life without trim considering torrent actually downloads file in chunks, idk if it would have any difference compared to just copying a big file.

 

I dont intend to use this drive much at all on USB excpet for this big trasnfer and maybe extremly occasionally downloading some bigger torrent, this is one of the SSDs that i borrowed from my desktop that i cant finish because im still missing a GPU.....

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1 minute ago, lucky.peic said:

According to samsung website this 1TB model has 600TBW

 

So my best bet would be to run trim after copying all the files and deleting them.

 

one more thing, how for example downloading a torrent affects its life without trim considering torrent actually downloads file in chunks, idk if it would have any difference compared to just copying a big file.

 

I dont intend to use this drive much at all on USB excpet for this big trasnfer and maybe extremly occasionally downloading some bigger torrent, this is one of the SSDs that i borrowed from my desktop that i cant finish because im still missing a GPU.....

Sorry, I had the 500GB model, so half the lifespan. 

 

And yes, run trim after deleting files. Trim does next to nothing to undeleted files. 

 

This torrent problem is very difficult, because I download large torrents all the time to my M.2, but my WD drive has zero software similar to Samsung Magician that displays how much of the TBW has been used and the remaining lifespan. Sucks. Does the HD Sentinel app do that? 

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

Current setup: Ryzen 5 3600, MSI MPG B550, 2x8GB DDR4-3200, RX 5600 XT (+120 core, +320 Mem), 1TB WD SN550, 1TB Team MP33, 2TB Seagate Barracuda Compute, 500GB Samsung 860 Evo, Corsair 4000D Airflow, 650W 80+ Gold. Razer peripherals. 

Also have a Alienware Alpha R1: i3-4170T, GTX 860M (≈ a 750 Ti). 2x4GB DDR3L-1600, Crucial MX500

My past and current projects: VR Flight Sim: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=dG38Jx (Done!)

A do it all server for educational use: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=vmmNcf (Cancelled)

Replacement of my friend's PC nicknamed Donkey, going from 2nd gen i5 to Zen+ R5: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=WmsW4D (Done!)

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1 minute ago, Nathanpete said:

Sorry, I had the 500GB model, so half the lifespan. 

 

And yes, run trim after deleting files. Trim does next to nothing to undeleted files. 

 

This torrent problem is very difficult, because I download large torrents all the time to my M.2, but my WD drive has zero software similar to Samsung Magician that displays how much of the TBW has been used and the remaining lifespan. Sucks. Does the HD Sentinel app do that? 

HD sentinel has a lot if info including TBW, free version works fine enough to check data like that

 

Btw, i just found some more info on how SSD controllers works and it looks like it is probably fine if i use it without TRIM for writing and reading just if i delete stuff then running TRIM is a good idea, looks like i can at least use it to transfer those files and maybe download something on it occasionally but i just have to remember to run TRIM if i delete some larger files 🙂

 

Anyway, give HD sentinel a try, you can check a lot of stuff with it

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4 minutes ago, lucky.peic said:

HD sentinel has a lot if info including TBW, free version works fine enough to check data like that

 

Btw, i just found some more info on how SSD controllers works and it looks like it is probably fine if i use it without TRIM for writing and reading just if i delete stuff then running TRIM is a good idea, looks like i can at least use it to transfer those files and maybe download something on it occasionally but i just have to remember to run TRIM if i delete some larger files 🙂

 

Anyway, give HD sentinel a try, you can check a lot of stuff with it

I mean I was never interested in my SSD's lifespan bc I really don't care. But I am concerned about a lack of speed because despite my best efforts, all my big games have my 1TB M.2 running at 250 GB left. That is just 50GB away, or another triple A game, before I will begin to see a drop in write speeds. 

 

The thing about torrents that is good, is that seeding does nothing to your SSD's lifespan, it is the one time download that can mess it up. 

And if you are downloading something in the form of like a zip folder, unzipping it should move out all the "chunks" into a single space, and then removing the torrent from your client, and deleting the zip file after you have used it, would mark all those chunks as free. Immediately after doing that is a great time to run the disk management tools. 

Fuck you scalpers, fuck you scammers, fuck all of you jerks that charge way too much to tech-illiterate people. 

Unless I say I am speaking from experience or can confirm my expertise, assume it is an educated guess.

Current setup: Ryzen 5 3600, MSI MPG B550, 2x8GB DDR4-3200, RX 5600 XT (+120 core, +320 Mem), 1TB WD SN550, 1TB Team MP33, 2TB Seagate Barracuda Compute, 500GB Samsung 860 Evo, Corsair 4000D Airflow, 650W 80+ Gold. Razer peripherals. 

Also have a Alienware Alpha R1: i3-4170T, GTX 860M (≈ a 750 Ti). 2x4GB DDR3L-1600, Crucial MX500

My past and current projects: VR Flight Sim: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=dG38Jx (Done!)

A do it all server for educational use: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=vmmNcf (Cancelled)

Replacement of my friend's PC nicknamed Donkey, going from 2nd gen i5 to Zen+ R5: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/nathanpete/saved/#view=WmsW4D (Done!)

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20 minutes ago, Nathanpete said:

I mean I was never interested in my SSD's lifespan bc I really don't care. But I am concerned about a lack of speed because despite my best efforts, all my big games have my 1TB M.2 running at 250 GB left. That is just 50GB away, or another triple A game, before I will begin to see a drop in write speeds. 

 

The thing about torrents that is good, is that seeding does nothing to your SSD's lifespan, it is the one time download that can mess it up. 

And if you are downloading something in the form of like a zip folder, unzipping it should move out all the "chunks" into a single space, and then removing the torrent from your client, and deleting the zip file after you have used it, would mark all those chunks as free. Immediately after doing that is a great time to run the disk management tools. 

If only my desktop is complete i would have zero issue with trimming but with current GPU shortage im out of luck for now, i can use my friends PC to trim or maybe i could try building my own windows PE iso, put it on a usb stick and put ssd that needs trimming into the laptop, boot windows PE and trim it that way

 

Tbh, if i prices dont get better by the end of next month im getting a a GPU even if price is inflated, at this point i just want a normal working desktop

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2 hours ago, lucky.peic said:

If only my desktop is complete i would have zero issue with trimming but with current GPU shortage im out of luck for now, i can use my friends PC to trim or maybe i could try building my own windows PE iso, put it on a usb stick and put ssd that needs trimming into the laptop, boot windows PE and trim it that way

 

Tbh, if i prices dont get better by the end of next month im getting a a GPU even if price is inflated, at this point i just want a normal working desktop

Windows does not TRIM your drive, the drive controller and firmware handle TRIM, if it is a feature of the drive, all Windows can do is issue a RE TRIM command to the drive that it may or may not act on depending on what it is doing at the time.

During normal use the drive will wear level all by itself, as again this a function of the controller, not the OS.

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