Ideal pump for ITX Loop?

[Tonberry]

Hi everyone,

 

Im looking for any informations that convince me if EK-XTOP SPC-60 pump is ideal for ITX loop which consist of 120W CPU and RX 5700 XT, or should I use EK-XTOP DDC 3.2 instead?

 

It's space limitation and pump outputs concerns.

 

Which one should I use?

[Deli]

Both DDC and D5 pumps are fine, but the D5 is quieter.

[BigBlackRat]

Pump made in China!

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xtop-spc-60-pwm-plexi-incl-pump

[TempestCatto]

1 hour ago, BigBlackRat said:

Pump made in China!

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xtop-spc-60-pwm-plexi-incl-pump

Tons of things are. Doesn't mean it's total shit. There are some good things that come out of China. Like Toyota for example, they're a Chinese company but actually make good autos.

[Deli]

1 hour ago, TempestCatto said:

Tons of things are. Doesn't mean it's total shit. There are some good things that come out of China. Like Toyota for example, they're a Chinese company but actually make good autos.

Toyota is a Japanese company.

[Tonberry]

4 hours ago, Deli said:

Both DDC and D5 pumps are fine, but the D5 is quieter.

Correct, but here the concern is not the noise, but space available. I consider the XTOP SPC-60 because it's the smallest EK's pump available, The EK's DDC has better FR and pressure but it's taller than the SPC-60. Having a D5 pump is a difficult option. SPC is ideal for its size but inferior in specs for the heat load. DDC might be suitable for the load but size is also give some difficulties to work with because it's taller.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, BigBlackRat said:

Pump made in China!

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xtop-spc-60-pwm-plexi-incl-pump

 

1 hour ago, TempestCatto said:

Tons of things are. Doesn't mean it's total shit. There are some good things that come out of China. Like Toyota for example, they're a Chinese company but actually make good autos.

I knew it. Which factor to be concerned about Chinese product?

A Great Wall is one of their product and last forever that makes it as one of the world seven wonders 

[Mick Naughty]

Well have you measured for space or have a general idea?

 

You wouldn’t be asking if you had a choice I assume. 

[Tonberry]

7 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Well have you measured for space or have a general idea?

 

You wouldn’t be asking if you had a choice I assume. 

The choices are those 2, I'm worried that the SPC-60 will give me a hard time because of its output specs, while the DDC might give me a hard time in placement inside the case.

 

Im not experienced in custom loop, but I assume you are, so which one you would like to deal with? Having a hard time lacking pump output for the heat loads, or having a hard time putting a bigger pump inside the case?

[Mick Naughty]

3 minutes ago, PotatoCanDo! said:

The choices are those 2, I'm worried that the SPC-60 will give me a hard time because of its output specs, while the DDC might give me a hard time in placement inside the case.

 

Im not experienced in custom loop, but I assume you are, so which one you would like to deal with? Having a hard time lacking pump output for the heat loads, or having a hard time putting a bigger pump inside the case?

Well they are similar enough in size. If going with the larger one was that much of a hassle, I’d either restructure the build or deal with which ever. 

 

Flow rate shouldn’t be an issue as it’s a tiny loop. But if you go small and don’t get the performance you want, you will prolly blame the pump. 

 

Aslong as you won’t regret any issues or money wasted, I’d get the smaller one, assuming that it gives you the space needed. 

 

[Deli]

31 minutes ago, PotatoCanDo! said:

Correct, but here the concern is not the noise, but space available. I consider the XTOP SPC-60 because it's the smallest EK's pump available, The EK's DDC has better FR and pressure but it's taller than the SPC-60. Having a D5 pump is a difficult option. SPC is ideal for its size but inferior in specs for the heat load. DDC might be suitable for the load but size is also give some difficulties to work with becaus...

 

Once you have more than two cold plates(CPU & GPU) and three radiators. Then you worry about flow rate and pressure with those pumps.

 

An itx build with one radiator. I can even do with just one Alphacool Eisaer LT solo.

 

Seems your concern is a waste of time here.

[Tonberry]

1 hour ago, Deli said:

Once you have more than two cold plates(CPU & GPU) and three radiators. Then you worry about flow rate and pressure with those pumps.

 

An itx build with one radiator. I can even do with just one Alphacool Eisaer LT solo.

 

Seems your concern is a waste of time here.

I don't have Eisbaer Solo locally, I only can buy all the parts locally.

 

Waste of time is better than waste of a components I guess. As I said, I'm not experienced in custom loop, then waste of time from other perspective might be part of my learning from my perspective to educate myself about the stuff I'm going to do.

 

Would you like to deal with space constrains or dealing with below expectation cooling performance?

[Tonberry]

41 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Well they are similar enough in size. If going with the larger one was that much of a hassle, I’d either restructure the build or deal with which ever.

1 vote for using a DDC pump here?

 

 

44 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Flow rate shouldn’t be an issue as it’s a tiny loop. But if you go small and don’t get the performance you want, you will prolly blame the pump.

That's what I though at first, small loop doesn't require high pump output, but how if there are 120W CPU and RX 5700XT in that small loop?

 

 

46 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Aslong as you won’t regret any issues or money wasted, I’d get the smaller one, assuming that it gives you the space needed.

So you think the SPC-60 is unreliable pump in term of durability and output?

[Tonberry]

2 hours ago, Mick Naughty said:

Well have you measured for space or have a general idea?

The only space I can put the pump will fit the DDC XTOP either horizontally or vertically, but I'm not sure if I put an inlet fitting on top of it will give me enough clearance as a tolerance for errors. The pump will be mounted on the rad via EK pump bracket.

 

While the SPC-60 will give me ease of mind in placement, but might give later hassle(?)

 

I'm a noob..

[Tonberry]

1 hour ago, Deli said:

Once you have more than two cold plates(CPU & GPU) and three radiators. Then you worry about flow rate and pressure with those pumps.

Does this mean 1 vote for the SPC-60?

[For Science!]

12 hours ago, PotatoCanDo! said:

-

Assuming you can:

1. Fit the DDC in the case (which I assume you can since you listed it)

2. Will have some airflow on the DDC heatsink

3. Are capable to slow down the DDC using PWM control via BIOS

 

then I would go for the DDC. If not, then the SPC.

[Tonberry]

1 hour ago, For Science! said:

Assuming you can:

1. Fit the DDC in the case (which I assume you can since you listed it)

2. Will have some airflow on the DDC heatsink

3. Are capable to slow down the DDC using PWM control via BIOS

 

then I would go for the DDC. If not, then the SPC.

Could you confirm if we can install the DDC pump on the bracket without using its all 4 standoffs or replacing them with some small plastic washers (like GN uses to improve 5700XT thermals) and screwed the pump heatsink directly to the bracket just to reduce the height?

 

Does DDC heat up that bad, that makes it need heatsink? Never thought about this before..

[Mick Naughty]

Don’t know about reliability or output of either pump as I would never buy them. 

 

Cpu heat doesn’t matter, the pump is gonna work all the same. That’s what the rad is for.  Being a small loop, it can flow. If you wanted to put that same pump with a larger loop is where concern would come to play. 

 

All pumps heat up. They are just cooled different. You want more room so get the small one. Or mod the ddc, it’s still gonna work all the same. 

[For Science!]

7 minutes ago, PotatoCanDo! said:

-

I haven't personally used a DDC so take my advise with a grain of salt, but I do believe that DDCs can generate enough heat to kill itself without adequate cooling. Whether this is mitigated if you run it at a lower rpm or exactly how much heatsink/airflow you need is up in the air for me.

 

I would imagine the pump would work without the feet, but it may transmit more vibrations to the chassis which will manifest as noise.

 

I personally would look into ways into fitting a D5 pump in any case, but thats just me.

[Tonberry]

2 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Don’t know about reliability or output of either pump as I would never buy them. 

 

Cpu heat doesn’t matter, the pump is gonna work all the same. That’s what the rad is for.  Being a small loop, it can flow. If you wanted to put that same pump with a larger loop is where concern would come to play. 

 

All pumps heat up. They are just cooled different. You want more room so get the small one. Or mod the ddc, it’s still gonna work all the same. 

Well thanks for this input. This relieved some stresses I have with this.

 

2 years warranty on the SPC-60, and how long for the DDC again?

[Tonberry]

28 minutes ago, For Science! said:

I haven't personally used a DDC so take my advise with a grain of salt, but I do believe that DDCs can generate enough heat to kill itself without adequate cooling. Whether this is mitigated if you run it at a lower rpm or exactly how much heatsink/airflow you need is up in the air for me.

 

I would imagine the pump would work without the feet, but it may transmit more vibrations to the chassis which will manifest as noise.

 

I personally would look into ways into fitting a D5 pump in any case, but thats just me.

I will digging some ideas and confirmations about using a DDC without its feet on a bracket if I will use it.

 

D5 is just too big, it can give me even bigger challenge to just put it in and rethink how the loop will go, then make some errors here and there.. I have so little experience for this challenge, to be honest..

 

I've built some small systems with their own challenges, but not yet with a CLC loop in it. This will be the first ITX custom loop for me. I'll take time longer to gather as much informations as it's needed before execute it, picking parts that can give me less stress from start to the end of the building process to have more fun with it..

 

Still indecisive here..

[Mick Naughty]

29 minutes ago, PotatoCanDo! said:

Well thanks for this input. This relieved some stresses I have with this.

 

2 years warranty on the SPC-60, and how long for the DDC again?

I have no idea about warranties. Never looked. Assumed it’s based off the supplier. 

[For Science!]

24 minutes ago, PotatoCanDo! said:

-Still indecisive here..

I think its all down to finding a good case and how creative you are.

Since I've got a Ncase M1 v5 (12.6 L in volume) with a D5 pump/res combo, 240 + 120 mm radiator, 5x 120 mm fans. This is with a full length graphics card too.

 

Since the Ncase M1 v6 came out recently....I can only recommend it :P. There are other "ITX" cases like the Phanteks Shift that has a crazy large volume (>20 L) but do not offer much by way of hardware support, but only wasted volume. 

[Tonberry]

1 hour ago, For Science! said:

I think its all down to finding a good case and how creative you are.

Since I've got a Ncase M1 v5 (12.6 L in volume) with a D5 pump/res combo, 240 + 120 mm radiator, 5x 120 mm fans. This is with a full length graphics card too.

 

Since the Ncase M1 v6 came out recently....I can only recommend it :P. There are other "ITX" cases like the Phanteks Shift that has a crazy large volume (>20 L) but do not offer much by way of hardware support, but only wasted volume. 

Man, that is a really nice M1 build there, I just scrolled down your M1 threads before you even post this reply. Respect!

 

And also, are you psychic? You mentioned the Evolv Shift while I'm using it and without mention it here for this build, just because I need that footprint size on my desk badly..

 

Just did little mod on the panels, stripped it from black to bare brushed aluminium.

 

It might seem idiotic to cool a 5700XT and high end CPU inside evolv shift, but I can't help myself from the temptation of doing it. I'm up for the challenges, but lessen the stresses is preferred.

 

I managed to get the brushed metal finish on both front and rear panels, now it's time to decide which pump I will use.

 

I just can't imagine to put a D5 in it with all the tubes around it..

[For Science!]

6 minutes ago, PotatoCanDo! said:

-

It's been done on the SFF forum quite frequently. Have a look here, maybe it'll give you some ideas: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/phanteks-evolv-shift-custom-loop.3430/

[Tonberry]

1 hour ago, For Science! said:

It's been done on the SFF forum quite frequently. Have a look here, maybe it'll give you some ideas: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/phanteks-evolv-shift-custom-loop.3430/

Thanks for the reference link! It helps. But the guy decided to change the D5 with a DDC as he mentioned this,

Quote

The D5 was mount on a bracket off the front fan. I used only the two rear mounting holes.

I had a bad rattling problem when the fan goes beyond 2000rpm. Not sure if the rattling was caused by the weight of the D5. I decided to switch to a DDC pump mounted on the bottom fan instead.

This can be my reference. I might use a DDC also instead of SPC-60. I already planned how the tubes will go with a DDC or SPC-60 as they has the exact XTOP, it's only a matter of size, but I'm worrying about DDC's height, will it give me enough clearance for errors if I screwed up on measurements when I put top inlet fitting on it? Since noob do errors.

 

I'm really curious how that guy installed the DDC pump as a D5 replacement. Can't find any reference for DDC inside Evolv Shift.