Add Second Non-SLI GPU?

[Will R]

Hello Everyone!!

             I am having an issue with my pc studdering/tearing while playing games (typically PUBG), but ONLY with signal being sent to my Elgato 4K60 Pro Capture Card. If I disable that output, the studdering stops. I am using a 1440P 144hz monitor, supplied by an EVGA 2080ti. I have one monitor on my gaming rig, and 2 for my streaming rig. If I play a game with the streaming rig off, HDMI disconnected, or the signal disabled, the game runs totally fine. I have verified with the 4K Capture software that the signal going into the capture card is 1440p at 144hz. In my gaming PC, I cloned my single display with the capture card so I can stream that. In game I am usually around 160-180 fps, with G-Sync on. I have turned off V-Sync in NVCP and in all games. I have a feeling the studder/tearing is my 2080ti recognizing the capture cards refresh, and causing issues. I am using DP 1.4 cable from the 2080ti to my monitor, and HDMI 2.1 from the 2080ti to the 4K60. 

 

The studder/tearing is not always horrible, but it is increasingly annoying. It makes FPS games difficulty when moving quickly. My framerate indicator is always above 140, and I limited my frames to 120 and it seems to do the same thing.

 

My question, last resort before giving up is trying an additional video card in the gaming rig. I was wondering if anyone has the same issue, or hopefully a solution? If I could find success running a second GPU in my gaming pc, duplicate that and use that output to the capture card? Not sure if that is even possible. I just want my gaming PC to run the same whether I am outputting the cloned display, or not. 

 

Last bit of info, I did verify the source of the cloned display is my gaming monitor, and not the 4K60 Capture Card. Thanks for anyone who took the time to read this!!!

 

Gaming PC Specs:

i7 8700 (360 AIO)

EVGA 2080ti (Stock Cooler)

MSI Z390 Gaming Plus MB

32GB Corsair Vengence Ram (3000)

1TB NvME SSD

1TB SSD

850 Watt PS

 

Streaming PC Specs:

i5 9600k (120 AIO)

MSI 2070 8g Armor (Stock Cooler)

MSI Z 390 Gaming Plus MB

16GB DDR4 2666

1TB SSD

650 Watt PS

[rcmaehl]

Sounds like you are encountering Microstutter. The game will feel choppy despite being a a high reported framerate. My recommendation is using a single HDMI (or DP) cable split off to both the capture card and the monitor as a starting point before throwing a ton of cash on another GPU.

 

 

[ninbura]

6 minutes ago, Will R said:

Hello Everyone!!

             I am having an issue with my pc studdering/tearing while playing games (typically PUBG), but ONLY with signal being sent to my Elgato 4K60 Pro Capture Card. If I disable that output, the studdering stops. I am using a 1440P 144hz monitor, supplied by an EVGA 2080ti. I have one monitor on my gaming rig, and 2 for my streaming rig. If I play a game with the streaming rig off, HDMI disconnected, or the signal disabled, the game runs totally fine. I have verified with the 4K Capture software that the signal going into the capture card is 1440p at 144hz. In my gaming PC, I cloned my single display with the capture card so I can stream that. In game I am usually around 160-180 fps, with G-Sync on. I have turned off V-Sync in NVCP and in all games. I have a feeling the studder/tearing is my 2080ti recognizing the capture cards refresh, and causing issues. I am using DP 1.4 cable from the 2080ti to my monitor, and HDMI 2.1 from the 2080ti to the 4K60. 

 

The studder/tearing is not always horrible, but it is increasingly annoying. It makes FPS games difficulty when moving quickly. My framerate indicator is always above 140, and I limited my frames to 120 and it seems to do the same thing.

 

My question, last resort before giving up is trying an additional video card in the gaming rig. I was wondering if anyone has the same issue, or hopefully a solution? If I could find success running a second GPU in my gaming pc, duplicate that and use that output to the capture card? Not sure if that is even possible. I just want my gaming PC to run the same whether I am outputting the cloned display, or not. 

 

Last bit of info, I did verify the source of the cloned display is my gaming monitor, and not the 4K60 Capture Card. Thanks for anyone who took the time to read this!!!

 

Gaming PC Specs:

i7 8700 (360 AIO)

EVGA 2080ti (Stock Cooler)

MSI Z390 Gaming Plus MB

32GB Corsair Vengence Ram (3000)

1TB NvME SSD

1TB SSD

850 Watt PS

 

Streaming PC Specs:

i5 9600k (120 AIO)

MSI 2070 8g Armor (Stock Cooler)

MSI Z 390 Gaming Plus MB

16GB DDR4 2666

1TB SSD

650 Watt PS

In my experience, when you duplicate a signal in windows V-Sync doesn't work properly no matter what you do, meaning screen tears. G-Sync doesn't replace V-Sync, it only kicks in when your frame rate dips below your monitors refresh rate. So in short unfortunately no, using a second GPU will not resolve this issue.

I have a 3440x1440@100Hz display and the Magewell Pro Capture HDMI 4K Plus (non-loop through) and it took me months to figure out how to get a proper signal to my display and capture card. The monitor only accepted a Displayport signal & the capture card an HDMI, a few weeks after struggling to get it to work without screen tearing on either device the first Displayport 1.2 splitter (Aten VS192) came onto market. At the time it was like $400 but I bit the bullet and picked it up anyways, so then I was running a DP 1.2 cable to the splitter, DP 1.2 cable from the splitter to the monitor, and then an Active DP 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 active adapter from the splitter to HDMI 2.0 to the capture card. But while both the monitor and capture card were getting the signal I was now getting tearing on both the monitor and capture card as opposed to previously only getting tearing and stuttering on either or.

After contacting multiple support teams and pulling my hair out for about a month I found that the problem was my Display needed to be overclocked to achieve 100Hz. If I down clocked the display to it's native 60Hz I got a clean signal on both the monitor and capture card. I'm fairly certain this was the fault of the Displayport splitter but like I said it was the only one on the market... luckily around that time Asus announced a new 3440x1440@100Hz monitor that ran 100Hz native with no overclocking. And after getting the new monitor / getting everything setup for the first time I was capturing and playing 3440x1440@100Hz with no tearing or stuttering.

I don't mean to overwhelm you with my story but want to more or less to illustrate what kind of issues you can run into while attempting to play and capture high res + high refresh. All these signals are very finicky and particular if you don't do things just right.

You have a few options, one of which I'm not entirely sure will work but it should theoretically:
A) This one's the most simple, if your monitor can run 1440p144 over HDMI 2.0 than just use the pass through on the Elgato 4K60, this will obviously work.
B) You can do what I'm doing, run DP to a DP splitter and then DP to the monitor and DP to HDMI via active adapter to the capture card. Keep in mind that you'll run into problems if your display is overclocked just like I did.
C) This is the one that should theoretically work but I'm unsure, you can run HDMI to the Elgato and then HDMI 2.0 to DP 1.2 on the output to the screen. HDMI to display port is not a simple conversion like Displayport to HDMI is, back when I was trying to figure all of this out there wasn't even the option. But these days there are a few HDMI 2.0 to Displayport 1.2 active converters. Like i said before I'm not positive this will work, I haven't tested it. Maybe the adapter won't take the out signal on the capture card, or maybe your monitor won't like the signal from the adapter... I'm also unsure if you'll run into issues here if your display is overclocked.

Note that you won't be able to run G-Sync while doing any of these options, the price you pay to capture signals like this.

DP 1.2 Splitter:
https://www.amazon.com/ATEN-VS192-2PORT-DISP-Splitter/dp/B071DG3LXM/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=VS192&qid=1562093219&s=gateway&sr=8-1

 

DP 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 active adapter (it is paramount that you get an active DP to HDMI adapter and not a passive adapter when used in conjunction with a splitter)
https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-DisplayPort-Supports-displays-3840x2160/dp/B00S0C7QO8/ref=sr_1_11?crid=1S6FRCOTEEVVI&keywords=displayport+1.4+splitter&qid=1562094803&s=electronics&sprefix=displayport+1.4+spltt%2Celectronics%2C179&sr=1-11

HDMI 2.0 to DP 1.2 active adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/SIIG-HDMI-DisplayPort-Converter-60Hz/dp/B07C39QBSF/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2VXI0UGI5V5XJ&keywords=hdmi+2.0+to+displayport+1.2&qid=1562095012&s=electronics&sprefix=hdmi+2.0+to+di%2Celectronics%2C180&sr=1-3

[Will R]

Wow, thanks for the descriptive answer! At least now I know what the upsides and downsides are... I'm just frustrated I built such a beast of a PC, with a stellar monitor that I can't use to the full potential... I think I will go the pass-through route and just see how she runs. I could always run that cable, and then a direct DP cable and alternate between them whether I am streaming or not.

 

My main goal is to game at 1440p and 144hz. I don't care if I have to stream at 720p and 30fps, I just want the game smooth haha. Thanks again!

[Will R]

If there was only a way for Windows 10 to simply use one output for G-Sync, gaming ect, and then use the other outputs as just simple outputs without attempting to match screens...

 

IE - DP Out - To gaming monitor, where the frame times are matched

       HDMI Out - Simple HDMI out with no display monitoring

[ninbura]

9 minutes ago, Will R said:

If there was only a way for Windows 10 to simply use one output for G-Sync, gaming ect, and then use the other outputs as just simple outputs without attempting to match screens...

 

IE - DP Out - To gaming monitor, where the frame times are matched

       HDMI Out - Simple HDMI out with no display monitoring

The hard part would be stripping the G-Sync signal and producing a second one with just v-sync, I almost feel like you'd have to render two streams. But maybe with the ever growing popularity of streaming some sort of option will eventually be added. I too was fairly frustrated when I learned I wouldn't be able to capture while G-Sync was enabled, but to be honest I noticed almost no difference.

I like to keep a steady frame-rate, I can tell when my frames dip weather G-Sync is enabled or not (albeit less when enabled). So I tune my settings to almost always stay above 100FPS, at which point G-Sync isn't doing anything, it only makes a difference when you dip below your monitors max refresh rate.

But at the same time you definitely feel cheated when you spend $1200 on a GPU but have to run some games at Medium to achieve maximum FPS... was hoping they'd announce a 2080Ti Super today, a little disappointed.

[Mick Naughty]

Didn't have the issue at all. Though I didn't have g sync on as I wasn't aware my monitor supported it at the time. Nor would I ever use that when I was gaming as such a higher frame rate. 

 

Worked pretty well as it was better than pass through incase I didn't want the other rig on all the time.

[Will R]

16 minutes ago, TheAgnda said:

The hard part would be stripping the G-Sync signal and producing a second one with just v-sync, I almost feel like you'd have to render two streams. But maybe with the ever growing popularity of streaming some sort of option will eventually be added. I too was fairly frustrated when I learned I wouldn't be able to capture while G-Sync was enabled, but to be honest I noticed almost no difference.

I like to keep a steady frame-rate, I can tell when my frames dip weather G-Sync is enabled or not (albeit less when enabled). So I tune my settings to almost always stay above 100FPS, at which point G-Sync isn't doing anything, it only makes a difference when you dip below your monitors max refresh rate.

But at the same time you definitely feel cheated when you spend $1200 on a GPU but have to run some games at Medium to achieve maximum FPS... was hoping they'd announce a 2080Ti Super today, a little disappointed.

That would be nice. If I knew in the beginning I couldn't play/capture at 1440/144, I would have just gone with a cheaper 1080 monitor or a beefier CPU and just keep everything on one PC. 

[Will R]

5 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Didn't have the issue at all. Though I didn't have g sync on as I wasn't aware my monitor supported it at the time. Nor would I ever use that when I was gaming as such a higher frame rate. 

 

Worked pretty well as it was better than pass through incase I didn't want the other rig on all the time.

I think you don't have any issues because you are using a 1080 setup. I am also VERY keen to any frame variations... Yeah I could keep playing just as it is, but it bothers me. I didn't spend $7,000 on a 2 pc setup including all the audio to just have a laggy experience. That is what is driving me bananas

 

[Mick Naughty]

Just now, Will R said:

I think you don't have any issues because you are using a 1080 setup. I am also VERY keen to any frame variations... Yeah I could keep playing just as it is, but it bothers me. I didn't spend $7,000 on a 2 pc setup including all the audio to just have a laggy experience. That is what is driving me bananas

 

No, its 1440p.

[Will R]

1 minute ago, Mick Naughty said:

No, its 1440p.

So you are gaming at 1440p/144 and capturing that on a card and you see no studdering?? If so, I'd be curious what capture card and settings you are running

[ninbura]

Upon further review of your setup, you could try using NDI. NDI can be a bit finicky when using multiple monitors of varying refresh-rate on the PC you're gaming on (since it relies on running OBS), but you noted you only have one monitor.

What this requires is you run OBS on your main PC and Streaming PC, you encode the stream on your gaming PC and send the signal over your network to your streaming PC via NDI's plugin. Not to say it doesn't have it's drawbacks, since you have to encode on both PCs you're now eating into resources on your gaming PC, most notably VRAM. Additionally, you have to have OBS running in the background on your gaming PC which requires additional setup each time you want to stream. And lastly, since the stream is being sent over your network, you're eating into the network bandwidth on each PC. Though that last issue can be fixed by simply running another network cable between your PCs via additional USB / PCIe network cards.

Back when I was first getting into capturing game footage I would get stutters in my recording with G-Sync enabled even when capturing on the same PC with no capture card. But it's possible this has changed and since both NDI and OBS are free it wouldn't hurt to try.

Check out @EposVox's tutorials on NDI if you'd like to give it a try:

 

[Will R]

1 minute ago, TheAgnda said:

Upon further review of your setup, you could try using NDI. NDI can be a bit finicky when using multiple monitors of varying refresh-rate on the PC you're gaming on (since it relies on running OBS), but you noted you only have one monitor.

What this requires is you run OBS on your main PC and Streaming PC, you encode the stream on your gaming PC and send the signal over your network to your streaming PC via NDI's plugin. Not to say it doesn't have it's drawbacks, since you have to encode on both PCs you're now eating into resources on your gaming PC, most notably VRAM. Additionally, you have to have OBS running in the background on your gaming PC which requires additional setup each time you want to stream. And lastly, since the stream is being sent over your network, you're eating into the network bandwidth on each PC. Though that last issue can be fixed by simply running another network cable between your PCs via additional USB / PCIe network cards.

Back when I was first getting into capturing game footage I would get stutters in my recording with G-Sync enabled even when capturing on the same PC with no capture card. But it's possible this has changed and since both NDI and OBS are free it wouldn't hurt to try.

Check out @EposVox's tutorials on NDI if you'd like to give it a try:

 

Awesome, thanks!!! Just to clarify a possible miscue on my part, my gaming pc is connected to a single 1440/144 monitor while my streaming pc is connected to 2 1080/60 monitors.

[Mick Naughty]

1 minute ago, Will R said:

So you are gaming at 1440p/144 and capturing that on a card and you see no studdering?? If so, I'd be curious what capture card and settings you are running

Using the same card as you. Don't recall the settings as I used quite a bit. Setting wouldn't matter on the capture rig as you are getting the stuttering on the gaming rig, so I was duplicating the display same as you. 

[ninbura]

4 minutes ago, Will R said:

Awesome, thanks!!! Just to clarify a possible miscue on my part, my gaming pc is connected to a single 1440/144 monitor while my streaming pc is connected to 2 1080/60 monitors.

Shouldn't be an issue, in my experience OBS only has issues if the rig it's running on is connected to multiple displays of varying refreshrate.

[Will R]

Alright guys, here's the skinny as I spent some time fiddling last night.

Tried the pass-through approach, and it was studdering even worse because G-Sync and V-Sync aren't viable because the frame times are matched to the capture card, and not the monitor.

I did not use active splitters just because I didn't have any at the time, so that part I could not test.

I did however, find a solution. And here it is,

 

On my streaming pc, in 4K Capture Utility I set the EDID to 1440p. Then on my Gaming PC, I duplicated my 1440/144 monitor to the 4K60. I then went into NVCP and set my 1440/144 to 1440/144. I then used screen scaling on the 4K60 output to 1080... I then limited my frames to 120 fps and loaded the game. Now it is BUTTER smooth... Granted I gave up 24fps, but in reality its a whatever kind of thing. Its a mental thing that I payed for something I am not using to the full potential... But honestly, the difference between 144 and 120 is so minimal and unnoticeable I am happy with the outcome... Hopefully in the near future their will capability to play at whatever settings you want and then duplicate that on an output with different settings. Fingers crossed!