AIO/Custom Loop Failure Question

[Unkindness]

Hi guys,

I was watching the coverage of the Anti-Leak AIO stuff and I had a question.

 

If it's a case that most AIO failures are down to ruptures over time cause by gas expansion combined with the weakness of a component after going through a tonne of heat cycles, why does it seam that most Custom Loop reservoirs that I have seen have been filled to the gills?

 

Is it not better to have some room for, I suppose, condensation of gases or is the risk of an air/bubbles in the loop a bigger concern?

 

Cheers

[keskparane]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

 

Aside from not wanting air/gas in the system because it adds noise you don't want it because it will expand with heat. Typically liquid expansion is so minimal as to not be noticeable. So we remove the air for silence and it also keeps pressures lower.

[Unkindness]

3 minutes ago, keskparane said:

I'm not sure I understand the question.

 

Aside from not wanting air/gas in the system because it adds noise you don't want it because it will expand with heat. Typically liquid expansion is so minimal as to not be noticeable. So we remove the air for silence and it also keeps pressures lower.

Ok I'll try to explain better. That Castle AIO has a bladder that expands/contracts with the heat of the fluid to allow for thermal expansion is apparently what stops it failing.

If you allow for that with a touch of room in the reservoir, does it negate that point of failure or does it introduce a new one?

[TMobile]

The emptiness in the res is then still something, namely air. The castle has effect because the volume in the loop actually increases.

 

Air i cannot be replaced, as it still is something that has to go somewhere, want you mean is like a vacuum, but thats, as afar as i can imagine, imposible

[Mick Naughty]

Not everyone has pressure in their custom loops. Lots of options around building something proper. Build quality tends to be better too. 

[keskparane]

21 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Not everyone has pressure in their custom loops. Lots of options around building something proper. Build quality tends to be better too. 

Everyone with a sealed loop does. With liquid the pressures aren't enough to even need look at, say 1.7% for 35 deg Celsius rise. While any air in the system will expand about 12% over that range.

 

How many people run a loop that they leave open to air at some point?

[Mick Naughty]

6 minutes ago, keskparane said:

Everyone with a sealed loop does. With liquid the pressures aren't enough to even need look at, say 1.7% for 35 deg Celsius rise. While any air in the system will expand about 12% over that range.

 

How many people run a loop that they leave open to air at some point?

All of mine and a lot of others. People that don’t are just ignorant to it or don’t care. Using a variable speed pump on a sealed system that isn’t regulated. Isn’t the brightest but it’s done. 

[Unkindness]

1 hour ago, TheThymo said:

The emptiness in the res is then still something, namely air. The castle has effect because the volume in the loop actually increases.

 

Air i cannot be replaced, as it still is something that has to go somewhere, want you mean is like a vacuum, but thats, as afar as i can imagine, imposible

Air/gas can't be replaced but it can be compressed unlike fluid so if you leave gas in the res, surely it can absorb the moderate fluid pressure increase with the temps no? Especially when you go from a 14mm tube to a 30mm res

[Unkindness]

1 hour ago, Mick Naughty said:

Not everyone has pressure in their custom loops. Lots of options around building something proper. Build quality tends to be better too. 

Once a loop is closed, with no vent to atmosphere, thermodynamics says it will have some pressure in it just not 5 bar of pressure but higher than the ambient atmosphere the computer is in.

[Mick Naughty]

1 minute ago, Unkindness said:

Once a loop is closed, with no vent to atmosphere, thermodynamics says it will have some pressure in it just not 5 bar of pressure but higher than the ambient atmosphere the computer is in.

Yea I know how it works. If you read what I put. 

 

6 minutes ago, Unkindness said:

Air/gas can't be replaced but it can be compressed unlike fluid so if you leave gas in the res, surely it can absorb the moderate fluid pressure increase with the temps no? Especially when you go from a 14mm tube to a 30mm res

It helps but it isn’t enough. Which is the whole reason manufactures are changing their flawed designs. Tdp’s changing but the tech wasn’t. Been quite clear given the failure rates increasing the last couple years along with user error. 

[Unkindness]

39 minutes ago, keskparane said:

With liquid the pressures aren't enough to even need look at, say 1.7% for 35 deg Celsius rise. While any air in the system will expand about 12% over that range.

 

 

So why is it such a big deal in AIOs? So much so this bladder system is such a revalation?

[Unkindness]

4 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Yea I know how it works. If you read what I put. 

 

It helps but it isn’t enough. Which is the whole reason manufactures are changing their flawed designs. Tdp’s changing but the tech wasn’t. Been quite clear given the failure rates increasing the last couple years along with user error. 

So how does an unsealed cooling loop work better than a loop with room for evap from a component damage point? As in do you vent in case or out and do you top up the system more regularly?

[Mick Naughty]

Just now, Unkindness said:

So how does an unsealed cooling loop work better than a loop with room for evap from a component damage point? As in do you vent in case or out and do you top up the system more regularly?

There isn’t a damage point for custom loops, assuming it’s built and tested properly.  Just permiation differences. Too many factors. Doesn’t matter where you vent, the loop is doing it regardless. My sealed loop gets topped off more but this isn’t a thesis being conducted as such. 

[keskparane]

2 hours ago, keskparane said:

.... How many people run a loop that they leave open to air at some point?

 

2 hours ago, Mick Naughty said:

All of mine and a lot of others. People that don’t are just ignorant to it or don’t care. Using a variable speed pump on a sealed system that isn’t regulated. Isn’t the brightest but it’s done. 

 

2 hours ago, Mick Naughty said:

.... My sealed loop gets topped off more but this isn’t a thesis being conducted as such. 

So I'm confused. Is your loop sealed or not? I'd never heard of a pressure regulator for a custom loop. What one are you using?

 

[Mick Naughty]

6 minutes ago, keskparane said:

 

 

So I'm confused. Is your loop sealed or not? I'd never heard of a pressure regulator for a custom loop. What one are you using?

 

Some are some aren’t. They aren’t regulated. Just vented.