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Trudi

i7 8750H Laptop Cinebenching 450cb

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Hi TechTippers

Here's a noob who cannot understand.

So, i've buyed this laptop that arrived yesterday, from a company named Raiontech. An italian company. The base of the laptop is a Clevo N850EP6 with this specs:

 

i7 8750h

GTX1060

Crucial MX500

Balistix Sport SO-DIMM 16GB 2400mhz
Noctua Termal Paste NT-H1

So. I've cinebenched it at stock and gave me an underwhelming 450ish. Wasn't prepared to such a low result. I'm at 931cb with a OCed 4790K from 5 years ago. With which i maybe score even more.
Back to the laptop. I've searched some infos and found, even on this forum, people who with some tweaks with XTU or Throttlestop could get 1200cb with this CPU. The Undervolting stuff. So' i've tried with the same specs and had to reset the CMOS twice because of the laptop not booting after (well, some of the tweaks i've found were really hardcore i think, like -140mV offset, but i'm a noob so maybe i dont get something) XTUplayingaround.

Only result i've managed to consistently are this, with those ThruttleStop settings in the pics.

Any ideas or clarifications?
 

 

 

Screenshot (1).png

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Posted · Original PosterOP

They seem to be working all together. But at a really low clock speed. Maybe this time was because of the power saving but the first time i benched the laptop was full battery life.

Screenshot (5).png

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While using only ThrottleStop, here are a few things I would try.

 

Open up the Turbo Power Limits window and set the Package Power Long to 52 Watts, Package Power Short to 70 Watts and set the Turbo Time Limit to 28 seconds.  In this section, make sure to clear the Clamp option.  That is a throttling method that can kill performance.  You can also adjust the PP0 Turbo Time Limit to 28 seconds.  While you are in this window, check the Speed Shift option, hit Apply and then set the Min to 8 and the Max to 41.

 

On a 6 core laptop, under volting is a must.  Open up the FIVR window, check the Unlock Adjustable Voltage option and drag the Offset slider to the left until it says -100.6 mV.  In the FIVR Control section at the top, click on the CPU Cache option, click on Unlock Adjustable Voltage again and set this to the exact same -100.6 mV.  Hit the Apply button and look up at the live data in the monitoring table at the top right hand corner of the FIVR window.  Your Core and Cache under volt values should be showing in that table.  No need to run CPUID HWMonitor.  You can trust what ThrottleStop is telling you.  Too many monitoring apps can interfere with ThrottleStop.  Best to turn them off.  -100 mV should be a good place to start.  -125 mV will probably also be OK.  Some lucky 8750H owners can run reliably at -150 mV to -160 mV.  Do some thorough testing at -100 mV before going further.  ThrottleStop does not change voltages until after you boot up into Windows so you are a lot less likely to have any boot up issues.

 

Now click OK and head back to the main ThrottleStop screen.  In the middle you should see SST in green.  This shows you that you have enabled Speed Shift Technology.  It is a better way to control your CPU speed, especially on a laptop.  Starting from the top, clear the Clock Modulation option.  This is rarely used on modern computers so do not check this unless you know you need it.  Next, clear the Set Multiplier box.  When Speed Shift is enabled, Set Multiplier will no longer control your CPU.  Check the Speed Shift EPP option and to the right of that, for maximum performance, change the EPP value to 0.  After you are finished testing, if you like your CPU to slow down while idle, change the EPP value to 80.  EPP stands for Energy Performance Preference.  When Speed Shift is enabled, the CPU looks at this value and adjusts performance accordingly.  SpeedStep does not need to be checked when Speed Shift is enabled.  SpeedStep was the old school way to control CPU speed, Speed Shift is the modern way for 6th Gen and later Core i CPUs.

 

With ThrottleStop open, move it to the side and click on the Limits button to open up the Limit Reasons window.  This information will show you various reasons why your CPU is throttling.  Boxes in yellow show you reasons for previous throttling.  Boxes in red are a sign that throttling is presently in progress.  Before you start a bench test, you can click on the individual headings; CORE GPU RING to clear the previous throttling reasons from the CPU.  Now you are ready to do some testing. 

 

Open up Cinebench and run the multi core CPU test.  While this test is running, watch your CPU speed and watch for anything in Limit Reasons that turns red.  If you see anything unusual, half way through the test, hit the Print Screen button on your keyboard.  When you are finished testing, Copy and Paste that image into Paint or similar and upload this image so I can have a look.  I would also recommend that you turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop before you do any testing.  This way when you are done, you can exit ThrottleStop and you will have an accurate and thorough record of your CPU's performance while loaded.  It can better explain any problems compared to a single image.

 

Looking forward to seeing some Cinebench scores in the 1100 to 1200 range.  The more info you can show me, the easier it will be for me to help you get there.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
4 hours ago, unclewebb said:

While using only ThrottleStop, here are a few things I would try.

 

Open up the Turbo Power Limits window and set the Package Power Long to 52 Watts, Package Power Short to 70 Watts and set the Turbo Time Limit to 28 seconds.  In this section, make sure to clear the Clamp option.  That is a throttling method that can kill performance.  You can also adjust the PP0 Turbo Time Limit to 28 seconds.  While you are in this window, check the Speed Shift option, hit Apply and then set the Min to 8 and the Max to 41.

 

On a 6 core laptop, under volting is a must.  Open up the FIVR window, check the Unlock Adjustable Voltage option and drag the Offset slider to the left until it says -100.6 mV.  In the FIVR Control section at the top, click on the CPU Cache option, click on Unlock Adjustable Voltage again and set this to the exact same -100.6 mV.  Hit the Apply button and look up at the live data in the monitoring table at the top right hand corner of the FIVR window.  Your Core and Cache under volt values should be showing in that table.  No need to run CPUID HWMonitor.  You can trust what ThrottleStop is telling you.  Too many monitoring apps can interfere with ThrottleStop.  Best to turn them off.  -100 mV should be a good place to start.  -125 mV will probably also be OK.  Some lucky 8750H owners can run reliably at -150 mV to -160 mV.  Do some thorough testing at -100 mV before going further.  ThrottleStop does not change voltages until after you boot up into Windows so you are a lot less likely to have any boot up issues.

 

Now click OK and head back to the main ThrottleStop screen.  In the middle you should see SST in green.  This shows you that you have enabled Speed Shift Technology.  It is a better way to control your CPU speed, especially on a laptop.  Starting from the top, clear the Clock Modulation option.  This is rarely used on modern computers so do not check this unless you know you need it.  Next, clear the Set Multiplier box.  When Speed Shift is enabled, Set Multiplier will no longer control your CPU.  Check the Speed Shift EPP option and to the right of that, for maximum performance, change the EPP value to 0.  After you are finished testing, if you like your CPU to slow down while idle, change the EPP value to 80.  EPP stands for Energy Performance Preference.  When Speed Shift is enabled, the CPU looks at this value and adjusts performance accordingly.  SpeedStep does not need to be checked when Speed Shift is enabled.  SpeedStep was the old school way to control CPU speed, Speed Shift is the modern way for 6th Gen and later Core i CPUs.

 

With ThrottleStop open, move it to the side and click on the Limits button to open up the Limit Reasons window.  This information will show you various reasons why your CPU is throttling.  Boxes in yellow show you reasons for previous throttling.  Boxes in red are a sign that throttling is presently in progress.  Before you start a bench test, you can click on the individual headings; CORE GPU RING to clear the previous throttling reasons from the CPU.  Now you are ready to do some testing. 

 

Open up Cinebench and run the multi core CPU test.  While this test is running, watch your CPU speed and watch for anything in Limit Reasons that turns red.  If you see anything unusual, half way through the test, hit the Print Screen button on your keyboard.  When you are finished testing, Copy and Paste that image into Paint or similar and upload this image so I can have a look.  I would also recommend that you turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop before you do any testing.  This way when you are done, you can exit ThrottleStop and you will have an accurate and thorough record of your CPU's performance while loaded.  It can better explain any problems compared to a single image.

 

Looking forward to seeing some Cinebench scores in the 1100 to 1200 range.  The more info you can show me, the easier it will be for me to help you get there.

Thank you a lot Uncle, i'm on the laptop right now! As soon as i can, i'll give you updates of the situation!

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Posted · Original PosterOP

I'm really and idiot. I've offsetted to plus 100,6 instead of -100,6. Now i've make up everything right.

Here the results with correct offset! SCORE: 1146cb

There's also the log file for the last Cinebench test with settings as in pictures!

 

 

Screenshot (12).png

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2018-06-23.txt

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A Cinebench score of 1146 cb is a lot more respectable than 450 cb.  Your screenshots and log file still show some throttling but not the crazy amount of throttling that you originally had.  Maybe I should go work for RaionTech Computers!  :D

 

When 6 cores are active, the Core i7-8750H can use a maximum multiplier of 39 and it has a 45 Watt TDP limit.  In order for the CPU to stay within its 45 Watt TDP limit, it is designed to throttle and slows down just enough so the CPU does not exceed 45 Watts.  Your screenshot above shows your multiplier is averaging 36.33.  If you can find a way to exceed 45 Watts, the multiplier would be able to stay at a solid 39.00 for the entire Cinebench run.  The problem with ThrottleStop is that there are multiple power limits within the CPU and ThrottleStop does not have access to all of them.  The 52 Watt / 70 Watt power limits that I asked you to set are being ignored.  This means that there is another power limit somewhere that is holding you back.  I would first go into your bios and see if you have access to these turbo power limits.  Desktop motherboards usually allow you to change these values but most laptops do not.  If you find these limits in the bios, set them to the same values that ThrottleStop is using (52 / 70).  Boot up and run Cinebench again and see if you are still limited to 45 Watts.  

 

If you are still being limited, try using Intel XTU and set it to use these same values.  Intel XTU has access to one of the hidden power limits that ThrottleStop does not have access to.  In this situation, you can run ThrottleStop and XTU at the same time.  Try Cinebench again to see if you can go beyond 45 Watts.  

 

The other option is to increase your under volt.  Because your CPU is being limited to 45 Watts, if you decrease your CPU voltage some more, the CPU will be able to run a little faster before it runs into this 45 Watt limit.  The ThrottleStop reported multiplier is very accurate so keep an eye on it while the bench is running.  I like to adjust the voltage while it is running so I can immediately see any improvements.  You might get the multiplier up to 37 or 38 by under volting some more.  You might get lucky and see a 1200 cb.  Using an EPP value of 0 for maximum performance might also get you a few more cb points when testing.

 

Under volting the Intel GPU and System agent by -50 mV will also help free up some Watts so your CPU cores can run a little faster.  Remember to under volt these two settings equally.  I have no idea what a normal under volt for an 8th Gen iGPU is.  If your computer crashes, you have obviously gone too far.  You might also want to try under volting the CPU Cache more than the CPU Core.  Some people have had success with this strategy on some Intel CPUs.  I have not done any 8th Gen testing of this.  Something like -110 mV for the Core and -150 mV Cache might make a difference.  

 

There are lots of little tricks like this that can help you get a little more performance out of your laptop.   Your laptop is probably already running at 95% of what it is capable of running at.  How much time and testing you want to put into getting that last 5% out of your laptop is up to you.  Many users would be quite happy as is.  If you decide to keep ThrottleStop and your under volt is 100% stable, switch it in the FIVR window so it Saves Voltages Immediately.  You can also add ThrottleStop to your Windows start up routine using the Task Scheduler.  Here's a guide with lots of pics.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/#post-6865107

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Posted · Original PosterOP
8 hours ago, unclewebb said:

A Cinebench score of 1146 cb is a lot more respectable than 450 cb.  Your screenshots and log file still show some throttling but not the crazy amount of throttling that you originally had.  Maybe I should go work for RaionTech Computers!  :D

 

When 6 cores are active, the Core i7-8750H can use a maximum multiplier of 39 and it has a 45 Watt TDP limit.  In order for the CPU to stay within its 45 Watt TDP limit, it is designed to throttle and slows down just enough so the CPU does not exceed 45 Watts.  Your screenshot above shows your multiplier is averaging 36.33.  If you can find a way to exceed 45 Watts, the multiplier would be able to stay at a solid 39.00 for the entire Cinebench run.  The problem with ThrottleStop is that there are multiple power limits within the CPU and ThrottleStop does not have access to all of them.  The 52 Watt / 70 Watt power limits that I asked you to set are being ignored.  This means that there is another power limit somewhere that is holding you back.  I would first go into your bios and see if you have access to these turbo power limits.  Desktop motherboards usually allow you to change these values but most laptops do not.  If you find these limits in the bios, set them to the same values that ThrottleStop is using (52 / 70).  Boot up and run Cinebench again and see if you are still limited to 45 Watts.  

 

If you are still being limited, try using Intel XTU and set it to use these same values.  Intel XTU has access to one of the hidden power limits that ThrottleStop does not have access to.  In this situation, you can run ThrottleStop and XTU at the same time.  Try Cinebench again to see if you can go beyond 45 Watts.  

 

The other option is to increase your under volt.  Because your CPU is being limited to 45 Watts, if you decrease your CPU voltage some more, the CPU will be able to run a little faster before it runs into this 45 Watt limit.  The ThrottleStop reported multiplier is very accurate so keep an eye on it while the bench is running.  I like to adjust the voltage while it is running so I can immediately see any improvements.  You might get the multiplier up to 37 or 38 by under volting some more.  You might get lucky and see a 1200 cb.  Using an EPP value of 0 for maximum performance might also get you a few more cb points when testing.

 

Under volting the Intel GPU and System agent by -50 mV will also help free up some Watts so your CPU cores can run a little faster.  Remember to under volt these two settings equally.  I have no idea what a normal under volt for an 8th Gen iGPU is.  If your computer crashes, you have obviously gone too far.  You might also want to try under volting the CPU Cache more than the CPU Core.  Some people have had success with this strategy on some Intel CPUs.  I have not done any 8th Gen testing of this.  Something like -110 mV for the Core and -150 mV Cache might make a difference.  

 

There are lots of little tricks like this that can help you get a little more performance out of your laptop.   Your laptop is probably already running at 95% of what it is capable of running at.  How much time and testing you want to put into getting that last 5% out of your laptop is up to you.  Many users would be quite happy as is.  If you decide to keep ThrottleStop and your under volt is 100% stable, switch it in the FIVR window so it Saves Voltages Immediately.  You can also add ThrottleStop to your Windows start up routine using the Task Scheduler.  Here's a guide with lots of pics.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/#post-6865107

Uncle,

Today was messing up some more with TS and managed to get a 1247cb Cinebech score with a -130,6 offset. It looks like i can get even more but, trying to apply also on XTU the turbo short and long settings, after reboot i get an error that says i cannot apply those changes. Searching on the web i found it maybe be a BIOS issue. Maybe because of my previous CMOS resets? Have any idea?

Meanwhile, i thank you so much. Your help gave me a little beast already! :)

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A 1247 cb is near the top of the heap for a laptop running the Core i7-8750H.  Check out the top 5 entries at HWBot.

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/3871628_cdelaitre_cinebench___r15_core_i7_8750h_1289_cb

 

VP0PvG6.png

 

The problem with Intel XTU is that sometimes when you start up or reboot, XTU will have a problem and it will randomly decide not to apply your overclock or under volt settings.  Sometimes after resuming from stand by, users have no idea if their settings are being used or not.  Kind of a pain.  I have no idea how you can make XTU work more reliably.  Your problems are common and these kind of problems are not related to your CMOS resets.  Just one of those things.

 

When you ran your 1247 cb, were you using XTU and was XTU or ThrottleStop reporting more than 45 Watts for power consumption?  Did you try to under volt the iGPU and the System Agent yet?  If XTU is not reliable, you might be best off just tweaking your CPU as much as possible with ThrottleStop.  The top score on HWBot was achieved while using a -150 mV under volt.  You might find that -130 mV, -140 mV or even -150 mV is 100% reliable for 24/7 use.  If you have any stability problems, just adjust your under volt a little until you are 100% stable again.

 

When you are done, how about post some more pics so users can see your results and what settings you used to achieve those results.  Lots of valuable info in this thread already.  

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Ok here we go!

Managed to test some more today. Sadly i could'nt break my 1247cb record. But, if i got it right, i've managed to go past the 45W power, just using Throttlestop. So maybe it is just that i've to find the right settings to go above. Here's some pics for the last test i did, which scored 1237cb, after some intense benching session.

Limits tab in Thruttlestop do not show any throttling causes anymore. I wonder if i can try to change the TPL settings some more to get more power to the CPU, balancind that with a further undervolt.

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5 hours ago, Trudi said:

Limits tab in ThrottleStop do not show any throttling causes anymore.

You have reached the holy grail.  The maximum multiplier when all 6 cores are active is 39.  It is impossible for an 8750H to run any faster than this.  The TS log file multiplier column is showing solid 39.00 values so there is not even a hint of throttling going on. At this point, you could raise your power limits to a million and one and it is not going to make the CPU run any faster.  It can't.  

 

Do you still have Intel XTU installed?  Did you ever find the turbo power limits in the bios?  ThrottleStop only has access to the primary power limits but either the bios or XTU can give you access to the secondary power limits so that might be how you got over the 45 Watt barrier.  All you can do is try uninstalling XTU and see whether it is needed or not.  If XTU is installed, it will always be running in the background and you will see it in the Task Manager.

 

When bench testing, trying to find those last few cb points, use an EPP value of 0 for maximum performance.  You could also try adjusting the Min Cache Ratio from 8 to 38 but this might increase power consumption, cause some throttling or over heating and defeat your goal of more cb points.  It is a balancing act at this point; performance vs heat vs power consumption.  You are on the edge of all three.

 

The CPU cooling solution has allowed the CPU temp to increase almost 20°C in under 30 seconds at 53 Watts.  Translation: it is a marginal cooling solution to handle these power levels or the thermal paste application could be better.  When you are gaming with the Nvidia GPU also putting heat into your system, you might find that you have to decrease your Long term power limit back to 45 Watts.  In the name of science, time for you to go play some games.  An under volt that is Cinebench stable may not be game stable.

 

Thanks for including some additional information.  I plan to post a link to this forum on the main ThrottleStop NotebookReview forum so other users can see what the 8750H is capable of.  Going from 1400 MHz to 3900 MHz while fully loaded is quite the accomplishment.

 

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Unclewebb

So. Finally XTU decided to run properly. I've set the same long and short also on it to ensure those limits within bios settings. Before, it was installed when Cinebenching so yes, maybe it was XTU that made me break the wall before but will be strange because prior the limits where 45 and 78. So i cant help understanding on that. 

The news are that i couldn't replicate the 1247cb in any way. Sometimes, undervolting even more resulted in a decrease in performance even. So i decided to go back to only undervolt CPU and CPU Cache at around -130 which was the best configuration that gave me my record. Don't know, maybe a lucky run? Now, i range from 1220 to 1230 with different settings but cant break or replicate the record. The closest was a 1245 i think but it was also unstable.

For the cooling solution, all i can say is that opening the laptop for che CMOS resets i've seen that it has 2 fans and copper pipes all around. Maybe the Thermal Paste wasn't applied that good? Maybe at one point i'll reapply that, maybe i'll go crazy and try liquid metal.

And yes, i've installed Total War Warhammer II to see how the laptop handles it! If you have any other idea, i'll do some further testing willingly!

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Posted · Original PosterOP

And suddenly... the record has fallen! Welcome the new and shiny 1248cb score!

Core: -135.7 mV
Cache: -145.5 mV
iGPU: -78.1 mV
System Agent: -78.1 mV

Looks to be also a stable setting, at least for now. I'm looking forward to see if the laptop can handle an ingame situation!

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