HDR Confusion

[Marhier]

Morning all.
I'm after some advice, as I'm getting myself in a bit of a kerfuffle trying to get a straight answer from the internet.

I've recently bought a PS4 Pro, because I love games and want to play their exclusives; I long for the day Sony just say "sod it, we'll bring all our games to PC"

I currently have it connected to a 1080p TV and am now in the market for a budget 4K HDR TV to make the most of the PS4 Pro's features.

The ones I'm looking at are:
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-home-entertainment/televisions/televisions/samsung-ue50nu7020-50-smart-4k-ultra-hd-hdr-led-tv-10186023-pdt.html

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-home-entertainment/televisions/televisions/lg-50uk6470plc-50-smart-4k-ultra-hd-hdr-led-tv-10178164-pdt.html

 

The issue I'm having is trying to understand which TV is going to support the HDR features of the PS4.
Do HDMI 2.0 ports support HDR devices, or do I need a TV with HDMI 2.0a / 2.0b ports?

From the links I've provided, the Samsung only has HDMI 2.0 ports and the LG has HDMI 2.0b ports.

My next question is, if HDR is only supported by 2.0a and above, how does the Samsung TV do HDR if nothing you plug into it will work?

If someone could shed some light on this, it would be greeatly appreciated.

Display port is so much easier, lol

Much appreciated.
Regards

Marhier

[Mholes]

HDMI 2.0b supports Hybrid Log Gamma. (HLG)

Otherwise they both do support HDR.

[Mholes]

HDMI versions compared

HDMI Version	Max Resolution	Max 4K Frame rate	HDCP 2.2	HDR	WCG	Hybrid Log Gamma	Dynamic Metadata
1.4	4K	30Hz	No	No	No	No	No
2.0	4K	60Hz	Yes	No	No	No	No
2.0a	4K	60Hz	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	No
2.0b	4K	60Hz	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	No
2.1	10K	120Hz	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes

[Marhier]

Thanks Mholes, that table makes sense; so 2.0a is just the addition of the wide colour gamut?

If just using the TV for PS4 gaming and watching Netflix etc, which of the TV's do you think is better for best image quality - I'm assuming a TV that can support WCG would be better?

Thanks

[Mholes]

41 minutes ago, Marhier said:

Thanks Mholes, that table makes sense; so 2.0a is just the addition of the wide colour gamut?

If just using the TV for PS4 gaming and watching Netflix etc, which of the TV's do you think is better for best image quality - I'm assuming a TV that can support WCG would be better?

Thanks

I personally prefer the LG. In my opinion it is the better choice.

[Zandvliet]

I also have a question about this. I'm looking at the Samsung UE43NU7190 which according to https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/5a511342 has HDMI 2.0 not 2.0a or 2.0b. But the samsung websites say the TV has HDR 10+ and HDR. 

 

What's the story there?

 

EDIT: hmm just noticed that the 50UK6470PLC also has HDMI 2.0 according to https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/4910121f

 

Maybe the information is just incorrect..?

[Mholes]

2 hours ago, Zandvliet said:

I also have a question about this. I'm looking at the Samsung UE43NU7190 which according to https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/5a511342 has HDMI 2.0 not 2.0a or 2.0b. But the samsung websites say the TV has HDR 10+ and HDR. 

 

What's the story there?

 

EDIT: hmm just noticed that the 50UK6470PLC also has HDMI 2.0 according to https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/4910121f

 

Maybe the information is just incorrect..?

Yea, all these HDMI 2.0, 2.0a and 2.0b are very confusing because no one lists them right. Sometimes they are listed as 2.0b sometimes as 2.0.

BUT HDR -> 2.0a, HDR + HLG -> 2.0b

In conclusion both of those monitors should have HDMI 2.0b.

[Marhier]

22 hours ago, Mholes said:

... In conclusion both of those monitors should have HDMI 2.0b.

I'm probably going to go with the LG, as this one defintely says HDMI 2.0b... Every website I look at only shows HDMI 2.0 for the Samsung; what makes you think both should have 2.0b?

I know with HDR on, these TV's have 40-50ms response times, but I only play single player games on my PS4 and doubt I'd notice really.

[Mholes]

37 minutes ago, Marhier said:

I'm probably going to go with the LG, as this one defintely says HDMI 2.0b... Every website I look at only shows HDMI 2.0 for the Samsung; what makes you think both should have 2.0b?

I know with HDR on, these TV's have 40-50ms response times, but I only play single player games on my PS4 and doubt I'd notice really.

Because both of those panels should have HLG support according to https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/1ed713e1

HDMI 2.0a doesn't support HLG but 2.0b does.

[Marhier]

So I ended up getting the Samsung.
I went to the shop, the LG TV was on display and it looked awful; they were playing some Harry Potter trailer and maybe it wasn't in 4k, but the motion blur coming form movement of the characters really made the TV look bad.

They had the 55" version of the Samsung I wanted on display and it looked incredible - obviously nothing like their OLED/QLED displays, but then again, I'm not spending £2k on a TV - I'm going entry level, lol.

Prior to me going to the store, I rang PC World's technical team to confirm whether or not the Samsung's ports were 2.0b.
I said to them that their documentation said it has HLG and asked how this could be if it wasn't 2.0b - they couldn't give me a straight answer and gave me a number for Samsung support.

I rang Samsung and the 2 people I spoke to there were looking through the manual and confirmed it had HLG, but couldn't confirm for definite if it had HDMI 2.0b, lol.

They then said as it's a 2018 TV, they're pretty sure it will have the most up to date HDMI ports.
When I went to look at the TVs in person, the people in the shop said exactly the same thing as Samsung.

 

On 11/20/2018 at 8:44 AM, Mholes said:

HDMI versions compared

HDMI Version	Max Resolution	Max 4K Frame rate	HDCP 2.2	HDR	WCG	Hybrid Log Gamma	Dynamic Metadata
1.4	4K	30Hz	No	No	No	No	No
2.0	4K	60Hz	Yes	No	No	No	No
2.0a	4K	60Hz	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	No
2.0b	4K	60Hz	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	No
2.1	10K	120Hz	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes

Following on from this post though, I'm assuming it at least has HDMI 2.0a, because HDR isn't supported on 2.0, which leads me to my original question:

"...if HDR is only supported by 2.0a and above, how does the Samsung TV do HDR if nothing you plug into it will work?"

 

On 11/20/2018 at 8:43 AM, Mholes said:

... Otherwise they both do support HDR.

The table above contradicts this statement?

Any more thoughts?

Thanks
Regards
Martin

[Mholes]

Just now, Marhier said:

So I ended up getting the Samsung.
I went to the shop, the LG TV was on display and it looked awful; they were playing some Harry Potter trailer and maybe it wasn't in 4k, but the motion blur were coming off the movement of the characters really made the TV look bad.

They has the 55" version of the Samsung I wanted on display and it looked incredible - obviously nothing like their OLED/QLED displays, but then again, I'm not spending £2k on a TV - I'm going entry level, lol.

Prior to me going to the store, I rang PC World's technical team to confirm whether or not the Samsung's ports were 2.0b.
I said to them that their documentation said it has HLG and asked how this could be if it wasn't 2.0b - they couldn't give me a straight answer and gave me a number for Samsung support.

I rang Samsung and the 2 people I spoke to there were looking through the manual and confirmed it had HLG, but couldn't confirm for definite if it had HDMI 2.0b, lol.

They then said as it's a 2018 TV, they're pretty sure it will have the most up to date HDMI ports.
When I went to look at the TVs in person, the people in the shop said exactly the same thing as Samsung.

 

Following on from this post though, I'm assuming it at least has HDMI 2.0a, because HDR isn't supported on 2.0, which leads me to my original question:

"...if HDR is only supported by 2.0a and above, how does the Samsung TV do HDR if nothing you plug into it will work?"

 

The table above contradicts this statement?

Any more thoughts?

Thanks
Regards
Martin

Yes, you are right. And good that you checked the LG one. The monitor MUST have HDMI 2.0b since 2.0a doesn't support HLG.

 

And yea since these are entry level TV's you really need to see them personally. Glad to help.

[Marhier]

On 11/23/2018 at 1:27 PM, Mholes said:

Yes, you are right. And good that you checked the LG one. The monitor MUST have HDMI 2.0b since 2.0a doesn't support HLG.

 

And yea since these are entry level TV's you really need to see them personally. Glad to help.

 

I'm being quite persistent with this one, as I'm really interested in getting to the bottom of it.

I just had an interesting online chat with Samsung - I asked all the questions mentioned above and this is what they've said:

Samsung:
"All the HDMI ports on the TV are version 2.0. However, if we're going to switch on a setting on the TV which is HDMI UHD Color on these HDMI ports the version of the HDMI ports will change to 2.0a. As of the moment our televisions doesn't support 2.0b but just 2.0a.
For us to access this option, press the Setting button > General > External Device Manager > HDMI UHD Color > HDMI 1, 2, 3, 4.
The TV supports HDMI 2.0a when the HDMI UHD Color on the TV is switch on."

 

Me:
"Why do you state it supports Hybrid Log Gamma, if HLG is only supported on HDMI 2.0b?"

Samsung:

"Unfortunately, there nothing that I can say about with regards to the advertisement this is out of our scope."

Me:
"It's in the manual for your TV mate, it's not an advertisement, lol.
So can you please explain why your technical specifications show HLG support when it only has HDMI 2.0?"

Samsung:
"All the HDMI ports on the TV support HLG."

Me:
"So it's 2.0b; my mind can be put at rest?
Please remember what I've said, HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.0a DO NOT support HLG - 2.0b does"

Samsung:
"Our televisions can only support HDMI 2.0a but it does support HLG as well when the HDMI UHD Color. As of the moment our the HDMI ports on our TVs is version 2.0 and 2.0a."

Me:
"I don't understand how it supports HLG if it's not 2.0b if I'm honest."

Samsung:
"I understand but that is the information that our Product Specialist has provided with the version of the HDMI ports on our TVs."

Me:
"Can you ask the specialist how it's possible then?
How do you support a technology that isn't supported... I'm interested"

Samsung:

"Please bear with me for a moment.
Thank you for staying online.
May you please provide me your best contact number?"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

I gave them my number and am expecting a call back, lol.
Maybe I'm being an asshole, lol?

 

What's your thoughts

[Marhier]

On 11/23/2018 at 1:27 PM, Mholes said:

Yes, you are right. And good that you checked the LG one. The monitor MUST have HDMI 2.0b since 2.0a doesn't support HLG.

 

And yea since these are entry level TV's you really need to see them personally. Glad to help.

I never did get that call back, lol!

[Mholes]

7 minutes ago, Marhier said:

I never did get that call back, lol!

Hmmm, i don't really know what to say :D Weird that they say it's HDMI 2.0a

Well if the LG looked worse the Samsung is still the winner here even with HDMI 2.0a, since HLG isn't a must it just helps with TV broadcasts etc. :D

[Marhier]

2 hours ago, Mholes said:

Hmmm, i don't really know what to say :D Weird that they say it's HDMI 2.0a

Well if the LG looked worse the Samsung is still the winner here even with HDMI 2.0a, since HLG isn't a must it just helps with TV broadcasts etc. :D

I'll give up for now, lol.
I know it's an entry level TV and you get what you pay for; I'm only using it for PS4 really - I've got a PG279Q for the PC, which it damn amazing even if not HDR.

Looking at these entry level TVs though, I'm interested to know how they can advertise them as HDR, when I think these models only achieve a peak brightness of 300-500 nits - isn't that SDR territory?

[Mholes]

3 hours ago, Marhier said:

I'll give up for now, lol.
I know it's an entry level TV and you get what you pay for; I'm only using it for PS4 really - I've got a PG279Q for the PC, which it damn amazing even if not HDR.

Looking at these entry level TVs though, I'm interested to know how they can advertise them as HDR, when I think these models only achieve a peak brightness of 300-500 nits - isn't that SDR territory?

Yea it's kinda shady, and yea it's SDR maybe HDRish if the peak brightness in over 400. When i tried to find a good HDR TV i just checked if the TV had a VESA HDR cerification. That is one way to identify if the TV really has an okayish HDR or just a bright SDR.

[Marhier]

On 11/28/2018 at 12:37 PM, Mholes said:

Yea it's kinda shady, and yea it's SDR maybe HDRish if the peak brightness in over 400. When i tried to find a good HDR TV i just checked if the TV had a VESA HDR cerification. That is one way to identify if the TV really has an okayish HDR or just a bright SDR.

So I thought I'd give a final update on this saga, lol!
This afternoon, Samsung finally called me to respond to my questions.

Originally, they told me the following:
Samsung:
"All the HDMI ports on the TV are version 2.0. However, if we're going to switch on a setting on the TV which is HDMI UHD Color on these HDMI ports the version of the HDMI ports will change to 2.0a. As of the moment our televisions doesn't support 2.0b but just 2.0a.
For us to access this option, press the Setting button > General > External Device Manager > HDMI UHD Color > HDMI 1, 2, 3, 4.
The TV supports HDMI 2.0a when the HDMI UHD Color on the TV is switch on."

 

It's now been confirmed by Samsung's technical specialists that out of the box, the HDMI ports are 2.0, but when you activate their 'HDMI UHD Colour', they in fact turn to HDMI 2.1! - Mystery solved there!

I also queried the peak brightness and they told me is was "under 1,000".
I told them that I knew this, and wanted to know what the TV's peak was.
They just told me that because it's dependant on what I'm watching/doing, they can only tell me it'll go between 1 and 999.
A load of bullcrap if you ask me, as there's no way this TV will get to 999, haha!
I've just accepted it to be honest.

The TV arrived yesterday, I set it up and it looks/performs fantastically.

PS4 games look stella and I tried Shadow of the Tomb Raider on the PC; running with a 1080Ti, it looked and ran superbly.

The 'Game Mode' can run with HDR enabled as well and input lag seems to stay almost non-existent imo - advertised 13ms and feels it.

Overall, very satisfied - definitely feels high end, even though it's entry level.
So anyone looking to buy a UE50NU7020, or any NU7000 series TV from Samsung - do it!

Marhier!