Regarding waiting for pascal or polaris

[GlitchD]

Hello all i wanted to post here with the same stupid questions as everyone else currently BestBuy is selling the reference GTX 970 for only 304.99USD i have been using an r9 280x for the past year but sadly my cooler broke and the fans died so now its on life support zip tied to case fans and honestly its not doing everything i expect it to do now and even sagging yikes! Locally they seem to be going fast most likely a re seller but i was wondering if that deal seemed good enough to not wait for polaris or pascal since  i don't really want to go without using my pc to its max potential and honestly i feel like having a gtx 970 just makes it more likely to have support until steam hardware surveys at least don't show it as the most popular. i would have bought a second hand 970 but everyone on Craigslist was flaky so id rather get my however long warranty out of the box. Thanks i appreciate your opinions and factual statments

[Energycore]

970s have cost $300 since last december. This deal isn't really offering better value than usual.

 

Judging by how news releases for both pascal and polaris have been going you'll be able to pick up a similar performing card for $200-$250 by mid june.

[GlitchD]

I understand that this value isn't seen as much but locally i have two options wait months on end and save more not only for the trip to Micro Center but a potential price increase (most sources say estimated 500$ for the 1070) or get this and water cool it later on. Id love to wait for pascal but the speculation is what kills everything for me if i had a confirmed date or price of the 1070 aleast say it would make me more comfortable vs seeing it will be next month or maybe Q4...I play everyday as a passion i really would prefer to not wait any longer than than i already have

[Starelementpoke]

18 minutes ago, GlitchD said:

Hello all i wanted to post here with the same stupid questions as everyone else currently BestBuy is selling the reference GTX 970 for only 304.99USD i have been using an r9 280x for the past year but sadly my cooler broke and the fans died so now its on life support and honestly its not doing everything i expect it to do now and even sagging yikes! Locally they seem to be going fast most likely a re seller but i was wondering if that deal seemed good enough to not wait for polaris or pascal since  i don't really want to go without using my pc to its max potential and honestly i feel like having a gtx 970 just makes it more likely to have support until steam hardware surveys at least don't show it as the most popular. i would have bought a second hand 970 but everyone on Craigslist was flaky so id rather get my however long warranty out of the box. Thanks i appreciate your opinions and factual statments

What does the 390 cost?

[GlitchD]

24 minutes ago, Starelementpoke said:

What does the 390 cost?

350 xfx normal price i believe. Im leaning away from amd this time because most games i play or plan to are gameworks titles...i tested a PNY gtx 960 and it beat my 280x in everything i believe except gmod and csgo and 20 frames or so in rocket league

 

also seeing the Gigabyte 970 which people usually say is the best overall at the microcenter near me.

[Ryoutarou97]

Have you considered buying a 212 evo or something and trying to DIY it on to hold on until next gen comes? You probably didn't. Because it's a stupid idea. How about it? Unless you can sell the card without the cooler (who's going to liquid cool it though?) it might be worth the effort and it's like $20 at worst.

[Hero7750]

25 minutes ago, Starelementpoke said:

What does the 390 cost?

You can get an r9 390 for 300$, but OP I would jsut wait for polaris/ pascal because AMD is rumored to have a gpu that performance 2x better than the 980ti for half the price.

[GlitchD]

17 minutes ago, Ryoutarou97 said:

Have you considered buying a 212 evo or something and trying to DIY it on to hold on until next gen comes? You probably didn't. Because it's a stupid idea. How about it? Unless you can sell the card without the cooler (who's going to liquid cool it though?) it might be worth the effort and it's like $20 at worst.

you must have missed the zip tied fans part or the on life support the problem is the fans and bracket are damaged beyond repair but the heatsink is still ok i have already done that but the card cant overclock for s*** so it has at this point overstayed its welcome because no one wants to buy a second hand card thats not closer to the factory config like the fans if a buddy wants to pay the 30$ to replace the cooler if not they can use it as is the card is seriously sagging 

 

17 minutes ago, Hero7750 said:

You can get an r9 390 for 300$, but OP I would jsut wait for polaris/ pascal because AMD is rumored to have a gpu that performance 2x better than the 980ti for half the price.

again id really like to wait but what evidence is there to support a release date or anything besides speculation? id love a jump over the 970 but rumors are sadly only that. Im glad that saving my money is something everyone cares about but like i said i play daily its my escape its literally the only thing i can afford to do since i already own the parts besides invest myself in my work but big box retail isn't something you can be extremely passionate about. Id rather sell my entire system for whats its worth and buy a 6500 or 6600k to go with whatever comes next for gpus but its just not the cost effective solution right now just like setting a payment plan up with a friend sure it gets rid of it but then it would take some time to see the money actually in my hand. if i can see some for sure proof id wait for sure but the sale is until Saturday and for my budget and the situation and amount of time left until the alleged release this seems like a smart idea. 

 

I am only rocking an FX-6300 so id figure the increase in performance between a 970 to 1070 or the amd equiv to the 980ti for 300$ cant be enough to justify setting aside gaming as a whole for me until release. if everyone said do it id even then i would feel more compelled but the idea of going without is just boring as hell to me. id only have the chromecast for entertainment

[Ryoutarou97]

1 minute ago, GlitchD said:

you must have missed the zip tied fans part or the on life support i have already done that the card cant overclock for s*** so it has at this point overstayed its welcome if a buddy wants to pay the 30$ to replace the cooler if not they can use it as is the card is seriously sagging 

 

again id really like to wait but what evidence is there to support a release date or anything besides speculation? id love a jump over the 970 but rumors are sadly only that. Im glad that saving my money is something everyone cares about but like i said i play daily its my escape its literally the only thing i can afford to do since i already own the parts besides invest myself in my work but big box retail isn't something you can be extremely passionate about. Id rather sell my entire system for whats its worth and buy a 6500 or 6600k to go with whatever comes next for gpus but its just not the cost effective solution right now just like setting a payment plan up with a friend sure it gets rid of it but then it would take some time to see the money actually in my hand. if i can see some for sure proof id wait for sure but the sale is until Saturday and for my budget and the situation and amount of time left until the alleged release this seems like a smart idea. 

 

I am only rocking an FX-6300 so id figure the increase in performance between a 970 to 1070 or the amd equiv to the 980ti for 300$ cant be enough to justify setting aside gaming as a whole for me until release. if everyone said do it id even then i would feel more compelled but the idea of going without is just boring as hell to me. id only have the chromecast for entertainment

Whoops, sorry, I didn't see that. I mean, I did, but what does life support mean!? I would be happy to take the card off your hands for $30 and try to cool it with a stock intel cooler. That might be fun. Unless by a buddy you mean you already have a buyer lined up? Pascal is set for launch in early June right now IIRC, but even if it isn't, Polaris is launching late June so that's the latest you would have to wait

[GlitchD]

1 minute ago, Ryoutarou97 said:

Whoops, sorry, I didn't see that. I mean, I did, but what does life support mean!? I would be happy to take the card off your hands for $30 and try to cool it with a stock intel cooler. That might be fun. Unless by a buddy you mean you already have a buyer lined up? Pascal is set for launch in early June right now IIRC, but even if it isn't, Polaris is launching late June so that's the latest you would have to wait

I know it sounds dramatic but one whole month seems like a long time to sit here and watch my significant other drink and watch hulu...not exactly my idea of a good time. In a way yes i do have a buyer but no one is sure and doesn't have the entire amount together to buy anything atm...I really wish that water cooling the 280x with the kraken was a viable option but even then im sure i wont get much in terms of an overclock

[Ryoutarou97]

Just now, GlitchD said:

I know it sounds dramatic but one whole month seems like a long time to sit here and watch my significant other drink and watch hulu...not exactly my idea of a good time. In a way yes i do have a buyer but no one is sure and doesn't have the entire amount together to buy anything atm...I really wish that water cooling the 280x with the kraken was a viable option but even then im sure i wont get much in terms of an overclock

As cooling goes you can't really do much better, and it would work, but I don't think it's worth the price premium. If you are willing to sell the card for cheap and your buyer falls through I am willing/excited to take it for $30. Now that I've had the idea I really want to put an intel stock cooler on it and see how horribly it does (underclocking FTW!) and since I'm on an iGPU for until next gen it would be a nice little boost for now.

[GlitchD]

20 minutes ago, Ryoutarou97 said:

As cooling goes you can't really do much better, and it would work, but I don't think it's worth the price premium. If you are willing to sell the card for cheap and your buyer falls through I am willing/excited to take it for $30. Now that I've had the idea I really want to put an intel stock cooler on it and see how horribly it does (underclocking FTW!) and since I'm on an iGPU for until next gen it would be a nice little boost for now.

As mush as id love to benefit you selling a gpu for 30$ was never an option for me these go locally for between 150-180 so id do like maybe 100 without the fans and bracket but your almost robbing me at that point id rather use it until it dies then sit here and not play.....I do find that quite odd with all the information and opinions i have yet to see someone who would say oh god i would just die without playing or not wanting  wait. Again i appreciate all the info but if the 970 broke the price per fps barrier and on High in a game like Ark the difference is 40fps.....so if i was running at 10 fps vs 40 fps id probably think i made a huge jump. But i also play Ark more than any other game and again its a game works title so if i can get a confirmation that i can crank the game up the the max or high or even just not have to modify the gameworks features to off its annoying asf to not be able to just enjoy the game to its fullest. I cant get the results i saw out of my head and that was using a bestbuy specific evga 970 and before that a 960. with the card being physically broken i feel like replacing it is just the smartest thing to do since i can always build a zen system with this amd 980ti equiv even though im leaning towards nvidia due to emulation running far better with Dolphin and PCSX2.

 

Again thanks i may not be new to pcs in general but i am certainly not use to knowing the fps bang for my buck 

[Ryoutarou97]

12 minutes ago, GlitchD said:

As mush as id love to benefit you selling a gpu for 30$ was never an option for me these go locally for between 150-180 so id do like maybe 100 without the fans and bracket but your almost robbing me at that point id rather use it until it dies then sit here and not play.....I do find that quite odd with all the information and opinions i have yet to see someone who would say oh god i would just die without playing or not wanting  wait. Again i appreciate all the info but if the 970 broke the price per fps barrier and on High in a game like Ark the difference is 40fps.....so if i was running at 10 fps vs 40 fps id probably think i made a huge jump. But i also play Ark more than any other game and again its a game works title so if i can get a confirmation that i can crank the game up the the max or high or even just not have to modify the gameworks features to off its annoying asf to not be able to just enjoy the game to its fullest. I cant get the results i saw out of my head and that was using a bestbuy specific evga 970 and before that a 960. with the card being physically broken i feel like replacing it is just the smartest thing to do since i can always build a zen system with this amd 980ti equiv even though im leaning towards nvidia due to emulation running far better with Dolphin and PCSX2.

 

Again thanks i may not be new to pcs in general but i am certainly not use to knowing the fps bang for my buck 

But I want cheap GPU... Sorry about lowballing you, it sort of seemed from your previous post that you were giving it to a friend so that he could fix it up for $30 and keep it. generally AMD is better bang/buck, but if you're playing gameworks titles a 970 is a good card. That said, I would really try to revive that thing (DIY liquid cooling with a tin can waterblock, anyone?) for a month or two until next gen launches because from what we've been hearing it will kick all kinds of ass.

[GlitchD]

21 minutes ago, Ryoutarou97 said:

But I want cheap GPU... Sorry about lowballing you, it sort of seemed from your previous post that you were giving it to a friend so that he could fix it up for $30 and keep it. generally AMD is better bang/buck, but if you're playing gameworks titles a 970 is a good card. That said, I would really try to revive that thing (DIY liquid cooling with a tin can waterblock, anyone?) for a month or two until next gen launches because from what we've been hearing it will kick all kinds of ass.

Im assuming that everyone is talking about the 490X allegedly. I said 30$ to FIX the card since the bracket and fans are 30$. Sorry but regardless of the worth i already traded a 1.5K laptop for what i have and took a 600$ loss so every penny counts living under someones roof . It would be nice for the 490X to be as great as everyone is lead to believe but my next concern would be if the 490X is overkill. To be honest im gaming at 1600x900 right now and 4k isnt a gaming option right now for me as i like max settings with fps at 60 vs Medium at 120hz. If i can invest in a freesync monitor and maybe an upgrade to zen i would feel like a new architecture would make more sense but im sure the fx6300 cant make or break it much especially overclocked past 4.5GHz

 

I hate to say it but a revive isn't really going to fix the bad overclock and the fact that it just wont preform as well as a 970 would in the titles i currently own. I can keep it in zip ties forever but the sag is the main reason i want to replace it and others want cheap builds so using that card vs buying a new one is the best option for me

[Ryoutarou97]

8 hours ago, GlitchD said:

Im assuming that everyone is talking about the 490X allegedly. I said 30$ to FIX the card since the bracket and fans are 30$. Sorry but regardless of the worth i already traded a 1.5K laptop for what i have and took a 600$ loss so every penny counts living under someones roof . It would be nice for the 490X to be as great as everyone is lead to believe but my next concern would be if the 490X is overkill. To be honest im gaming at 1600x900 right now and 4k isnt a gaming option right now for me as i like max settings with fps at 60 vs Medium at 120hz. If i can invest in a freesync monitor and maybe an upgrade to zen i would feel like a new architecture would make more sense but im sure the fx6300 cant make or break it much especially overclocked past 4.5GHz

 

I hate to say it but a revive isn't really going to fix the bad overclock and the fact that it just wont preform as well as a 970 would in the titles i currently own. I can keep it in zip ties forever but the sag is the main reason i want to replace it and others want cheap builds so using that card vs buying a new one is the best option for me

Next gen would be a full lineup of cards. 490x is overkill, but what about a 480? 470x, maybe? Most of the performance of your card doesn't come from the overclock; you're not missing out on that much. No cooler will help a bad chip OC amazingly, but as long as you can get it cooled and stable you'll still get the base performance of a 280x. Without an overclock you can't get the to 110% performance line, but do you value 10% or $300 more? If you're really pinching pennies I would suggest you just fix it yourself instead of buying a whole new card and use it until next gen because you will get a better card for cheaper.

[GlitchD]

2 hours ago, Ryoutarou97 said:

Next gen would be a full lineup of cards. 490x is overkill, but what about a 480? 470x, maybe? Most of the performance of your card doesn't come from the overclock; you're not missing out on that much. No cooler will help a bad chip OC amazingly, but as long as you can get it cooled and stable you'll still get the base performance of a 280x. Without an overclock you can't get the to 110% performance line, but do you value 10% or $300 more? If you're really pinching pennies I would suggest you just fix it yourself instead of buying a whole new card and use it until next gen because you will get a better card for cheaper.

I want to apologize because i feel like i am not exactly explaining myself.

 

1. The card is already fixed but its SAGGING BAD and overall Its too much maintaience

2. I dont enjoy replacing ties if something has to be moved or replacing my TIM when it dries out

3. I am NOT happy with my current performance

 

I may not have a disposable income but at this point I am buying games that are unable to get 60FPS....to me that's a problem that is the minimum performance i would expect from my card. but lets be honest here nothing is overkill if i bought a stronger gpu now id look into a stronger cpu later on so i may have situations where a cpu heavy game might not run at 80fps but i dont really care if its above 60 and currently i have to enjoy frequent dips down to 45 and possibly even single to lower double digit numbers. I really do want the best bang for my buck but one gpu purchased wont exactly kill me and this is the first real computer i have kept myself so id like ot maybe keep my card as a trophy and the 280x isnt worthy anymore.

 

Being as honest as possible i could grab a 290/290x if my case and components didnt already reach temps in game im not happy with so i dont see it as an option but again im surprised at the amount of information but a lack of opinion when it comes to it. But at the end of the day if my 280x died i would be 100% our of operation.

 

Id love to wait but the speculation is exactly what is making me show no interest like when the 300 series dropped. If dates or prices were concrete you could make me wait starting today but i am at least going to purchase the reference 970 to use and see how well it preforms in the 15 day return window

[Ryoutarou97]

13 hours ago, Hero7750 said:

You can get an r9 390 for 300$, but OP I would jsut wait for polaris/ pascal because AMD is rumored to have a gpu that performance 2x better than the 980ti for half the price.

NO THEY ARE NOT! They're saying 2.5x improvement in efficiency. The performance will probably be around a 980ti for a 490x at much lower TDP.

[GlitchD]

1 hour ago, Ryoutarou97 said:

NO THEY ARE NOT! They're saying 2.5x improvement in efficiency. The performance will probably be around a 980ti for a 490x at much lower TDP.

I really hope that is true because obviously older cards will eventually get marked down. Well i biked to BestBuy and fell off like an idiot (guess im not use to over 3 miles of riding) but as we speak im just going to test this reference 970 if im happy with it i will keep it and more than likely build a Zen+Polaris/Pascal system and then compare the 970 to whatever until the new price-per fps king rises.

[Ryoutarou97]

4 hours ago, GlitchD said:

I really hope that is true because obviously older cards will eventually get marked down. Well i biked to BestBuy and fell off like an idiot (guess im not use to over 3 miles of riding) but as we speak im just going to test this reference 970 if im happy with it i will keep it and more than likely build a Zen+Polaris/Pascal system and then compare the 970 to whatever until the new price-per fps king rises.

If you were just going to get a 970 why ask? Personally, I would keep it for 14 days (to be safe. Bestbuy 'aint the best.) and then return it and wait for next gen with a 280 (sag is solved with pretty much anything that has any tensile strenght. Like a pencil. Or rolled up black paper (would not use that one). Then you can get $300 worth of pascal/polaris in a month and a half or so (June release is pretty much confirmed. It may actually be officially confirmed at this point.) That said it's your card and entirely your call, but 970 level performance will be a lot cheaper w/ next gen.

[GlitchD]

3 hours ago, Ryoutarou97 said:

If you were just going to get a 970 why ask? Personally, I would keep it for 14 days (to be safe. Bestbuy 'aint the best.) and then return it and wait for next gen with a 280 (sag is solved with pretty much anything that has any tensile strenght. Like a pencil. Or rolled up black paper (would not use that one). Then you can get $300 worth of pascal/polaris in a month and a half or so (June release is pretty much confirmed. It may actually be officially confirmed at this point.) That said it's your card and entirely your call, but 970 level performance will be a lot cheaper w/ next gen.

@Ryoutarou97

I already had a 970 im pretty sure i mentioned that before but i know i said this before im not happy with the performance i am un happy having already redone the tim twice in less than a years span and since i cannot get a back plate im not going to jerry-rig my system anymore than i already have. But you are right it doesnt make much sense but i already replaced my motherboard i plan on upgrading my processor if zen isnt a huge leap since its cheaper to buy something with the same socket type obviously (8350)

 

Mainly i asked because i was hoping for more concrete evidence of price or at least a frickin date something!

 

Also im sure this conversation has been had forever i can wait and wait and stack up the cash but unless im being told i can build a complete zen system for like 300 then get a good 300$ gpu i would happy wait and wait until i have enough cash but lets be honest here...I have more than a hobby with the hardware and i use my computer at least 8 hours per day. Im not going to exactly be able to go without a gpu and still use my system to the fullest. How about this i had a friend locally hit me up he said he wants to sell his EVGA SC 970 and is willing to go down to 230 for the gpu alone but im not sure about its warranty period trying to talk him down to 220 so i can just invest the 20 into a back plate. Id appreciate your opinion there because if thats not worth it then i will skip the 970 completely 

 

But regarding BestBuy im never purchasing computer components there again the staff was helpful but fought me on a matter of things before finally giving in to the 10 Fing dollars off to only sell me a defective product 

[Ryoutarou97]

45 minutes ago, GlitchD said:

@Ryoutarou97

I already had a 970 im pretty sure i mentioned that before but i know i said this before im not happy with the performance i am un happy having already redone the tim twice in less than a years span and since i cannot get a back plate im not going to jerry-rig my system anymore than i already have. But you are right it doesnt make much sense but i already replaced my motherboard i plan on upgrading my processor if zen isnt a huge leap since its cheaper to buy something with the same socket type obviously (8350)

 

Mainly i asked because i was hoping for more concrete evidence of price or at least a frickin date something!

 

Also im sure this conversation has been had forever i can wait and wait and stack up the cash but unless im being told i can build a complete zen system for like 300 then get a good 300$ gpu i would happy wait and wait until i have enough cash but lets be honest here...I have more than a hobby with the hardware and i use my computer at least 8 hours per day. Im not going to exactly be able to go without a gpu and still use my system to the fullest. How about this i had a friend locally hit me up he said he wants to sell his EVGA SC 970 and is willing to go down to 230 for the gpu alone but im not sure about its warranty period trying to talk him down to 220 so i can just invest the 20 into a back plate. Id appreciate your opinion there because if thats not worth it then i will skip the 970 completely 

 

But regarding BestBuy im never purchasing computer components there again the staff was helpful but fought me on a matter of things before finally giving in to the 10 Fing dollars off to only sell me a defective product 

Chatted with you in PM, but to clear up a few things since I'm reading this after reading that (also pasting my response there for the public eyes to critique if any are still here). About motherboards- Zen is going to be on the AM4 socket so it won't be the same as your 8350. Sorry 'bout that.

 

The chips are being kept reeeally secret (with a lot of leaks) so we (because pretty much everything about the card except for perf, price, and date is known) can estimate within maybe 15% of how they will perform and within maybe a week of when they will launch, but pretty much nothing crucial has been revealed.

 

Ah, BestBuy, I was almost sad to see you close down in my location.

 

And here's what I said in PM:

 

If you're happy with a 970 then go for it, I suppose. I'm the type of person who is willing to wait and emulate old games that can run on an iGPU to get a new next gen card, so I'll try not to let personal opinion sway me too much. Userbenchmark places the 970 at 40% above the 280x, and with OC issues let's even bump it up to 50%. You mentioned in the post maybe building a next gen system when next gen came out. I guess what I would say is this: if you see yourself upgrading the 970 within a few months of Pascalaris (that is a word.) launch, then say don't do it because you're losing part of that $230 (whatever you don't make up in selling it  which could be a good $50 to $100). If you think you would keep the 970 and not upgrade then go for it. I doubt you'll get much more perf/price than that used card when next gen launches so if you won't be going for a 1070/1080 within 6-8 months, then go ahead and get this one.

 

sorta TL;DR:

Another way to look at it is that because a 970 can pretty much max out 900p, I would say go for it unless you are getting a new monitor anytime soon in which case bear it until a 1070 because you'll want something that can drive that monitor.

[GlitchD]

14 minutes ago, Ryoutarou97 said:

Chatted with you in PM, but to clear up a few things since I'm reading this after reading that (also pasting my response there for the public eyes to critique if any are still here). About motherboards- Zen is going to be on the AM4 socket so it won't be the same as your 8350. Sorry 'bout that.

 

The chips are being kept reeeally secret (with a lot of leaks) so we (because pretty much everything about the card except for perf, price, and date is known) can estimate within maybe 15% of how they will perform and within maybe a week of when they will launch, but pretty much nothing crucial has been revealed.

 

Ah, BestBuy, I was almost sad to see you close down in my location.

 

And here's what I said in PM:

 

If you're happy with a 970 then go for it, I suppose. I'm the type of person who is willing to wait and emulate old games that can run on an iGPU to get a new next gen card, so I'll try not to let personal opinion sway me too much. Userbenchmark places the 970 at 40% above the 280x, and with OC issues let's even bump it up to 50%. You mentioned in the post maybe building a next gen system when next gen came out. I guess what I would say is this: if you see yourself upgrading the 970 within a few months of Pascalaris (that is a word.) launch, then say don't do it because you're losing part of that $230 (whatever you don't make up in selling it  which could be a good $50 to $100). If you think you would keep the 970 and not upgrade then go for it. I doubt you'll get much more perf/price than that used card when next gen launches so if you won't be going for a 1070/1080 within 6-8 months, then go ahead and get this one.

 

sorta TL;DR:

Another way to look at it is that because a 970 can pretty much max out 900p, I would say go for it unless you are getting a new monitor anytime soon in which case bear it until a 1070 because you'll want something that can drive that monitor.

Thanks i meant upgrading from the 6300 to the 8350 for that extra horse power on am3+ but yes i do know and am excited to see zen being built on ddr4 and all the flashy new stuff amd doesnt currently ofer. But i do agree it is about a 50% increase with the reference 970 vs my msi 280x overclosked as far as it goes.

 

New technology is introduced everyday so i will pick up the used 970 which like i said go as low as 180 on my local craigslist to enjoy the nivdia specific features i missed out on the last couple of gens and enjoy the slightly higher fps per game but its disappointing too the 970 did NOT give me more frames in Subnautica (i know its early access) and my shuddering on Just cause 3 is still apparent so either my hard drive is not enough,my cpu, or gpus designed for the game dont do any better than their amd counterparts.

 

I want to thank @Ryoutarou97 for helping me make my choice to just ditch the 280x and go for a used card until im ready to rebuild or atleast invest in a gpu again. I will use the reference 970 for the 13 days i have left though just for a free taste of team green.