Need help with CPU upgrade

[RhagnarrL]

Hello 
So I'm looking for help with upgrading my CPU 
I have looked around the web and found a bunch of conflicting information on what to get and the Bottleneck calculators are not helping either so I turn to you guys for some Knowledge
Current CPU: Ryzen 5 1600
GPU: Nvidia RTX 3060ti
RAM: 32GB
MB: Asus Prime A320M-K ( I think yeah I should upgrade the motherboard too but for now cpu think would be better )

[podkall]

5 minutes ago, RhagnarrL said:

Bottleneck calculators are not helping either

you are right, they are completely useless

[Agall]

6 minutes ago, RhagnarrL said:

Hello 
So I'm looking for help with upgrading my CPU 
I have looked around the web and found a bunch of conflicting information on what to get and the Bottleneck calculators are not helping either so I turn to you guys for some Knowledge
Current CPU: Ryzen 5 1600
GPU: Nvidia RTX 3060ti
RAM: 32GB
MB: Asus Prime A320M-K ( I think yeah I should upgrade the motherboard too but for now cpu think would be better )

Anything but the best has a limitation, even with lower/older GPUs. That's where the concept of 'balance' comes in, where you're not overspending on one part to leave performance due to a lack in the other. Like comboing an i5 14100f and RTX 4090 or 14900k and RTX 3050 6GB.

 

You could likely find an inexpensive R5 5600 to drop in upgrade, but that depends on the region. If you have  Microcenter nearby and can snag a 5600x3D, then I'd do that in a heartbeat. Otherwise, the 5700x3D is a solid choice that  should be available in most places and won't be severely limited by a budget motherboard. The 3D v-cache chips are all low wattage, far lower than where they fall on performance charts.

 

You'd want to snag a decent air cooler with it, assuming you're using a stock cooler on your R5 1600. Something like the Thermalright Peerless Assassin punching well above its price category.

 

Any of those options would pair nicely with a 3060ti and unlock most of its performance.

[RhagnarrL]

8 minutes ago, Agall said:

Anything but the best has a limitation, even with lower/older GPUs. That's where the concept of 'balance' comes in, where you're not overspending on one part to leave performance due to a lack in the other. Like comboing an i5 14100f and RTX 4090 or 14900k and RTX 3050 6GB.

 

You could likely find an inexpensive R5 5600 to drop in upgrade, but that depends on the region. If you have  Microcenter nearby and can snag a 5600x3D, then I'd do that in a heartbeat. Otherwise, the 5700x3D is a solid choice that  should be available in most places and won't be severely limited by a budget motherboard. The 3D v-cache chips are all low wattage, far lower than where they fall on performance charts.

 

You'd want to snag a decent air cooler with it, assuming you're using a stock cooler on your R5 1600. Something like the Thermalright Peerless Assassin punching well above its price category.

 

Any of those options would pair nicely with a 3060ti and unlock most of its performance.

Most likely gonna go with the 5700x3d since that is what is available in my country ( not many choice options around here sadly )

[filpo]

1 minute ago, RhagnarrL said:

Most likely gonna go with the 5700x3d since that is what is available in my country ( not many choice options around here sadly )

won't work well on that a320 and it'll defo need a bios update. try and find a cheap b550 like the DS3H. Are you playing at 1080p?

[RhagnarrL]

14 minutes ago, filpo said:

won't work well on that a320 and it'll defo need a bios update. try and find a cheap b550 like the DS3H. Are you playing at 1080p?

Yeah I play at 1080p and I have the latest bios for the motherboard
would you mind explaining to me why it wouldn't work well?

[filpo]

15 minutes ago, RhagnarrL said:

would you mind explaining to me why it wouldn't work well?

In terms of power delivery, you can try but you might not have great cpu performance (and that won't be because of the CPU)

[Wuzi]

1 hour ago, RhagnarrL said:

Hello 
So I'm looking for help with upgrading my CPU 
I have looked around the web and found a bunch of conflicting information on what to get and the Bottleneck calculators are not helping either so I turn to you guys for some Knowledge
Current CPU: Ryzen 5 1600
GPU: Nvidia RTX 3060ti
RAM: 32GB
MB: Asus Prime A320M-K ( I think yeah I should upgrade the motherboard too but for now cpu think would be better )

Can I ask what’s wrong with the cpu you’ve got? Is it just not performing how you want? Also just my opinion based on my own mobo. I can’t even upgrade to new gen cpus (intel) without getting a new board. 

[Agall]

1 hour ago, filpo said:

won't work well on that a320 and it'll defo need a bios update. try and find a cheap b550 like the DS3H. Are you playing at 1080p?

5700x3D should work perfectly fine on an A320 motherboard, OP already has a compatible CPU they can update the board to the latest BIOS with and drop in any AM4 CPU.

 

PRIME A320M-K｜Motherboards｜ASUS USA

 

[Agall]

23 minutes ago, Wuzi said:

Can I ask what’s wrong with the cpu you’ve got? Is it just not performing how you want? Also just my opinion based on my own mobo. I can’t even upgrade to new gen cpus (intel) without getting a new board. 

CPU limitations in most games are no joke if you're not on Ryzen 5000 or Intel 12th gen and later. The IPC/cache/frequency boosts of anything before that just don't keep up in comparison. Zen2 barely hangs on in comparison, same with 11th gen.

[filpo]

8 minutes ago, Agall said:

5700x3D should work perfectly fine on an A320 motherboard, OP already has a compatible CPU they can update the board to the latest BIOS with and drop in any AM4 CPU.

 

PRIME A320M-K｜Motherboards｜ASUS USA

 

Not in terms of bios, talking about the actual power delivery of the motherboard

[Wuzi]

6 minutes ago, Agall said:

CPU limitations in most games are no joke if you're not on Ryzen 5000 or Intel 12th gen and later. The IPC/cache/frequency boosts of anything before that just don't keep up in comparison. Zen2 barely hangs on in comparison, same with 11th gen.

Gotcha that would certainly compel me to change my cpu. I’m on an i5 10400k and a b560 gigabyte board and a 2060. Not sure what games you play but the newest game I’ve had real problems with is the updated Ark game. Have to run it at medium or low settings just to have 60fps

[Agall]

1 hour ago, filpo said:

Not in terms of bios, talking about the actual power delivery of the motherboard

105W is fine for a 5700x3D. Normal steady state power draw isn't far off from what OP is already using. Ryzen in general works plenty fine at a 105W TDP limit, I even have a 7950x server I limit to such.

 

57 minutes ago, Wuzi said:

Gotcha that would certainly compel me to change my cpu. I’m on an i5 10400k and a b560 gigabyte board and a 2060. Not sure what games you play but the newest game I’ve had real problems with is the updated Ark game. Have to run it at medium or low settings just to have 60fps

I'm guessing your GPU isn't at 100% utilization during that either? Usually a good sign that there's a hard CPU limit, and not multithreading as in the CPU is pegged at 100%, but simply a game engine + CPU IPC/frequency/cache limitation. That being solved by a newer generation CPU of sufficient quality. 

[filpo]

2 minutes ago, Agall said:

Normal steady state power draw isn't far off from what OP is already using

do you mean 105w or normal gaming load? because a 1600 shouldn't be close to 105w

never mind, just checked and 1600 was 95w, should be fine then. Didn't know A320s were such beasts 

[Agall]

Just now, filpo said:

do you mean 105w or normal gaming load? because a 1600 shouldn't be close to 105w

never mind, just checked and 1600 was 95w, should be fine then. Didn't know A320s were such beasts 

It depends on the board specifically. I found the spec somewhere but its not listed directly on the website. The 4 pin EPS connector is a solid indicator that its at most 105W TDP though, but Ryzen has no problems with that in general. I doubt a 5700x3D will see much limitation in gaming, but probably lose some performance in full multicore workloads since the chip can get to 150W.

[Wuzi]

6 hours ago, Agall said:

105W is fine for a 5700x3D. Normal steady state power draw isn't far off from what OP is already using. Ryzen in general works plenty fine at a 105W TDP limit, I even have a 7950x server I limit to such.

 

I'm guessing your GPU isn't at 100% utilization during that either? Usually a good sign that there's a hard CPU limit, and not multithreading as in the CPU is pegged at 100%, but simply a game engine + CPU IPC/frequency/cache limitation. That being solved by a newer generation CPU of sufficient quality. 

According to Nzxt cam which may not track properly since the only thing I have Nzxt brand is my case, my cpu takes a massive load on new games but I run COD on ultra at 144fps with no real issues 

[Agall]

8 hours ago, Wuzi said:

According to Nzxt cam which may not track properly since the only thing I have Nzxt brand is my case, my cpu takes a massive load on new games but I run COD on ultra at 144fps with no real issues 

If you're happy with the performance, then sure, but in terms of my suggestion, it would be seeing what %utilization your GPU has while in some of these games. If its not upwards of 90%, then there's performance on the table, likely because its waiting for the CPU in that scenario. Some of those scenarios, its guaranteed to happen, but the difference between what you have and the best could easily be another 20-30 fps if utilization is only at 70% or so.

 

I made this thread as an example of this in an incredibly well optimized game. If it puts it into perspective, on a Steam Deck, this game will cap at about 45 fps in the most limiting scenarios as well. Its quite heavy in the single and multithreading territory, enough for the various scenarios to be an impressive real world benchmark in my opinion. Noting that the Ultra settings have a decent affect on CPU performance with particle effects including fog.

[RhagnarrL]

17 hours ago, Wuzi said:

Can I ask what’s wrong with the cpu you’ve got? Is it just not performing how you want? Also just my opinion based on my own mobo. I can’t even upgrade to new gen cpus (intel) without getting a new board. 

I get 1 sec freezes sometimes in games and the FPS is swinging too sometimes ( meaning from 144 to 120 and like that this is just an example )
So I tought it has to be the CPU not being able to keep up with the GPU

[RhagnarrL]

17 hours ago, Agall said:

5700x3D should work perfectly fine on an A320 motherboard, OP already has a compatible CPU they can update the board to the latest BIOS with and drop in any AM4 CPU.

 

PRIME A320M-K｜Motherboards｜ASUS USA

 

So I should be fine getting the 5700x3D then? I have the latest bios for the motherboard already instaled 

[RhagnarrL]

16 hours ago, Agall said:

105W is fine for a 5700x3D. Normal steady state power draw isn't far off from what OP is already using. Ryzen in general works plenty fine at a 105W TDP limit, I even have a 7950x server I limit to such.

 

I'm guessing your GPU isn't at 100% utilization during that either? Usually a good sign that there's a hard CPU limit, and not multithreading as in the CPU is pegged at 100%, but simply a game engine + CPU IPC/frequency/cache limitation. That being solved by a newer generation CPU of sufficient quality. 

I don't think it comes close to 80% but gonna look out for it tonight and report back with it

[Agall]

1 hour ago, RhagnarrL said:

So I should be fine getting the 5700x3D then? I have the latest bios for the motherboard already instaled 

Yeah, this is your best bet unless you want to potentially buy a whole new motherboard and probably RAM. I would pick up a better cooler if you're only using the stock cooler for your R5 1600, otherwise whatever you have currently should work just fine. The cooler I suggested earlier, Thermalright PA 120 SE, is a great option if your current cooler isn't that great as well.

 

1 hour ago, RhagnarrL said:

I don't think it comes close to 80% but gonna look out for it tonight and report back with it

I'd say with certainty that its the case in most games you play unless you're dialing up the graphics details to the point of getting sub 60 fps. An R5 1600 just doesn't keep up, even in comparison to a R5 3600. The gap between an R5 1600 to a 5700x3D is hard to describe because of how large it is, probably in excess of a 100% increase in framerate depending on the game.

 

My brother got a drop in upgrade to a 5800x3D from an R5 3600 when I upgraded to a 7950x3D, noting he has a hammy downed RTX 3070. He primarily plays games like WoW and PUBG, where he saw a 100% increase in framerate. Noting the performance gap between an R5 1600 and 3600, it'll be interesting to see how much of a boost you see jumping all the way from a 1600 to 5700x3D (3060ti is within like 10% of the 3070 for standard rasterization). 

[RhagnarrL]

19 minutes ago, Agall said:

Yeah, this is your best bet unless you want to potentially buy a whole new motherboard and probably RAM. I would pick up a better cooler if you're only using the stock cooler for your R5 1600, otherwise whatever you have currently should work just fine. The cooler I suggested earlier, Thermalright PA 120 SE, is a great option if your current cooler isn't that great as well.

 

I'd say with certainty that its the case in most games you play unless you're dialing up the graphics details to the point of getting sub 60 fps. An R5 1600 just doesn't keep up, even in comparison to a R5 3600. The gap between an R5 1600 to a 5700x3D is hard to describe because of how large it is, probably in excess of a 100% increase in framerate depending on the game.

 

My brother got a drop in upgrade to a 5800x3D from an R5 3600 when I upgraded to a 7950x3D, noting he has a hammy downed RTX 3070. He primarily plays games like WoW and PUBG, where he saw a 100% increase in framerate. Noting the performance gap between an R5 1600 and 3600, it'll be interesting to see how much of a boost you see jumping all the way from a 1600 to 5700x3D (3060ti is within like 10% of the 3070 for standard rasterization). 

Yeah it was in the plan to buy a coller ( BEQUIET Dark Rock Pro 5  since the 4 is out of stock now here ) and also a new PC case with 3 big fans in the front 
Thanks for helping me out 

[Agall]

2 minutes ago, RhagnarrL said:

Yeah it was in the plan to buy a coller ( BEQUIET Dark Rock Pro 5  since the 4 is out of stock now here ) and also a new PC case with 3 big fans in the front 
Thanks for helping me out 

I personally don't think a new case is necessary unless your current one doesn't support a decent air cooler. I only run 4x140mm case fans total and my rig can draw in excess of 700W, so even a relatively modern mid tower should work fine.

 

Looks like the DR Pro 5 should work fine though, always keep in mind that with air coolers, that it doesn't overlap with the PCIe slot. Most ATX motherboards in the mid-high range will space the first PCIe slot to the 2nd slot to make room for 140mm air coolers like the NH-D15.

[RhagnarrL]

38 minutes ago, Agall said:

I personally don't think a new case is necessary unless your current one doesn't support a decent air cooler. I only run 4x140mm case fans total and my rig can draw in excess of 700W, so even a relatively modern mid tower should work fine.

 

Looks like the DR Pro 5 should work fine though, always keep in mind that with air coolers, that it doesn't overlap with the PCIe slot. Most ATX motherboards in the mid-high range will space the first PCIe slot to the 2nd slot to make room for 140mm air coolers like the NH-D15.

Yeah the case is like I have to becuase the current one is small ( ish ) and not sure for the fitment for the coller in the case its simply because of that ( and RGB doesn't hurt either xD )
Yeah gonna look at that overlap for the PCI but I think it should be good

[Wuzi]

6 hours ago, Agall said:

If you're happy with the performance, then sure, but in terms of my suggestion, it would be seeing what %utilization your GPU has while in some of these games. If its not upwards of 90%, then there's performance on the table, likely because its waiting for the CPU in that scenario. Some of those scenarios, its guaranteed to happen, but the difference between what you have and the best could easily be another 20-30 fps if utilization is only at 70% or so.

 

I made this thread as an example of this in an incredibly well optimized game. If it puts it into perspective, on a Steam Deck, this game will cap at about 45 fps in the most limiting scenarios as well. Its quite heavy in the single and multithreading territory, enough for the various scenarios to be an impressive real world benchmark in my opinion. Noting that the Ultra settings have a decent affect on CPU performance with particle effects including fog.

My setup is pretty low tier. Only $1500 from Nzxt prebuilt but I am planning on basically a completely new build