Power limits Intel Apollo lake

[Octa Lucilfer]

Hello!

Can anyone help me? I've removed the limits of my pentium n4200 using r&w everything which will make the cpu use the maximum powers it can. But it only goes to 8 watts maximum and after a few seconds it go down to 6 watts again. Maybe 8 watts is enough but how to make it lasts longer? I've used throttlestop and still it go down after a few seconds.

Please help i would appreciate ur help!

[josefah]

It's a hardware limitation to keep you from frying the proc. The performance gains would be minimal at 8w vs 6w. 

[Octa Lucilfer]

2 hours ago, josefah said:

It's a hardware limitation to keep you from frying the proc. The performance gains would be minimal at 8w vs 6w. 

Its not that hot though.... Can it be unlocked using software? I've disabled the BDPROCHOT and intel speedstep and nothing change, it still go down to 6 watts after a few seconds. Or do i need to mod my bios to remove that limit? 6 watts isn't enough nowdays at least 8 watts maybe enough for me.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Tried using throttlestop yet?

 

Also send a screenshot of device manager under the system drivers cause youll wanna get rid of intel dynamic tuning / dptf processor participant by outright deleting it

[Octa Lucilfer]

1 hour ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Tried using throttlestop yet?

 

Also send a screenshot of device manager under the system drivers cause youll wanna get rid of intel dynamic tuning / dptf processor participant by outright deleting it

Sorry i can only record 1 second cus if more than that the file size would also increased. Btw how can i delete the intel dynamic tuning/dptf processor?

Dont worry about the heat for my laptop it doesnt get that hot anyway i have some fan that can cool it down.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

11 minutes ago, Octa Lucilfer said:

Sorry i can only record 1 second cus if more than that the file size would also increased. Btw how can i delete the intel dynamic tuning/dptf processor?

Dont worry about the heat for my laptop it doesnt get that hot anyway i have some fan that can cool it down.

Device manager

Under the system tab

Then take a pic of it to see if theres that stupid driver im talking about

 

And yea temps arent a worry and are basically irrelevant since the cpu will thermal throttle anyways if it gets too hot, even then i wouldnt worry about it till the thing starts running at >105c and unless you change tjmax that shouldnt happen

[Octa Lucilfer]

8 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Device manager

Under the system tab

Then take a pic of it to see if theres that stupid driver im talking about

 

And yea temps arent a worry and are basically irrelevant since the cpu will thermal throttle anyways if it gets too hot, even then i wouldnt worry about it till the thing starts running at >105c and unless you change tjmax that shouldnt happen

I've uninstalled the all that thermal drivers even the acpi thermal zone, but still the 8 watts only lasts a few seconds. Dude! I found the problem it because the core power limit exceeded! When i tried to play roblox i checked hwinfo and the maximum cores package power almost reach 10 watts which its maximum tdp. Now the problem is how to remove that sh*t

[Somerandomtechyboi]

4 minutes ago, Octa Lucilfer said:

Dude! I found the problem it because the core power limit exceeded! When i tried to play roblox i checked hwinfo and the maximum cores package power almost reach 10 watts which its maximum tdp. Now the problem is how to remove that sh*t

Use throttlestop tpl menu

 

imma just summon the dev of throttlestop @unclewebb since he knows his stuff with the throttling bullshit on laptops

 

Im guessing that you want the extra performance for games? cause if so i think you are better off thrifting and building a <100$ pc or converting an office pc / workstation into a gaming rig (aka finding a cheap gpu and slapping it in) since those celerons are actually slower than my e8400 at stock 3ghz and about 2x slower if i run it at 4.3ghz

[Octa Lucilfer]

7 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Use throttlestop tpl menu

 

imma just summon the dev of throttlestop @unclewebb since he knows his stuff with the throttling bullshit on laptops

 

Im guessing that you want the extra performance for games? cause if so i think you are better off thrifting and building a <100$ pc or converting an office pc / workstation into a gaming rig (aka finding a cheap gpu and slapping it in) since those celerons are actually slower than my e8400 at stock 3ghz and about 2x slower if i run it at 4.3ghz

Nah I'm fine with my current laptop. But is there any way to remove that sh*t limit? Its so annoying dude, just let my laptop goes to its maximum potential of power.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

21 minutes ago, Octa Lucilfer said:

Nah I'm fine with my current laptop. But is there any way to remove that sh*t limit? Its so annoying dude, just let my laptop goes to its maximum potential of power.

Throttlestop

[Octa Lucilfer]

17 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Throttlestop

I've changed and see tutorials using throttlestop, and it still doesn't work either. I saw some posts say he has the same thing like i did but he immediately remove intel dynamic tuning device extension and he said everything goes normal again. Why it doesn't work for me?

[Somerandomtechyboi]

44 minutes ago, Octa Lucilfer said:

I've changed and see tutorials using throttlestop, and it still doesn't work either. I saw some posts say he has the same thing like i did but he immediately remove intel dynamic tuning device extension and he said everything goes normal again. Why it doesn't work for me?

Send a screenshot of the tpl menu

[Octa Lucilfer]

1 hour ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Send a screenshot of the tpl menu

 

[josefah]

7 hours ago, Octa Lucilfer said:

I've uninstalled the all that thermal drivers even the acpi thermal zone, but still the 8 watts only lasts a few seconds. Dude! I found the problem it because the core power limit exceeded! When i tried to play roblox i checked hwinfo and the maximum cores package power almost reach 10 watts which its maximum tdp. Now the problem is how to remove that sh*t

 

That's what I said originally lol. It's a hardware limitation. It's a non-K CPU so it's set in firmware. It also lacks FIVR which is required for software voltage tweaking. 

 

Unless you re-write the CPU firmware you're not going to override it. 

[unclewebb]

 

Short Power PL2 is set to 0 watts. That tells the CPU to power limit throttle. 

 

Clear Disable Controls and increase both PL1 and PL2.

 

2 hours ago, josefah said:

It's a hardware limitation.

The maximum CPU multiplier is locked but the turbo power limits are not locked. The power limits are not set correctly. They can be adjusted higher. 

 

@Octa Lucilfer

Post a screenshot of the main ThrottleStop window. Usually SpeedStep needs to be enabled on these older processors so they can reach maximum speed. 

 

The PP0 Current Limit is locked to 31. There is no point in trying to change this limit to 1023. Set that back to 31. You cannot change a value that is locked by the BIOS.  

[josefah]

Okay fair enough but how much performance are you expecting to get out of a Pentium proc by increasing the turbo frequency a couple a watts. 1-2%? It's kind of needlessly dangerous. 

[unclewebb]

6 hours ago, josefah said:

1-2%

You are under estimating the possible performance increase. A N4200 running at its base frequency is only 1.1 GHz. Increasing the turbo power limits might let a N4200 run as fast as 2.5 GHz. A 125% increase in CPU speed is something worth trying to unlock. Increasing the package power can also help the Intel GPU maintain full speed longer or indefinitely. 

 

6 hours ago, josefah said:

It's kind of needlessly dangerous.

How so? His CPU is only running at 62°C. The N4200 starts to thermal throttle at 105°C. There is plenty of head room available to raise the power limits. Increasing the turbo power limits way beyond the 6W TDP rating is not going to hurt anything. Some users are increasing the turbo power limits to 15W. This can double the iGPU performance.

 

Yes it will still be an old slow processor compared to the latest technology from Intel but increasing the power limits might mean the difference between a useable device and an unuseable device. Not everyone can afford to buy the latest hardware.  

 

Lots of good info in this forum thread about removing the secondary turbo power limits. 

https://techtablets.com/forum/topic/good-news-found-a-way-to-increase-tdp-limit-on-ezbook-3-pro-maybe-any-n3450/page/11/#post-182279

 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

14 hours ago, unclewebb said:

The PP0 Current Limit is locked to 31. There is no point in trying to change this limit to 1023. Set that back to 31. You cannot change a value that is locked by the BIOS.  

Im curious if modding the bios can change the pp0 limit either as a hidden setting that can be set to user and actually adjusted via amibcp or trying to screw around with the code of the bios if its even there

 

9 hours ago, josefah said:

It's kind of needlessly dangerous. 

For non ocable locked cpus with no voltage adjustment this point is completely invalid

 

You can run the thing at tjmax for years and have no issues which is apparently 105c? Damn i was expecting more like 100c or prochot set to 90-95c, but still fine to run tjmax 24/7/365, even if it does degrade it wont be noticable for the next decade or 2 aka something else dies well before the cpu starts to show any signs of degradation

 

the danger of heat only comes into play when you have a chip that can be overclocked or atleast have its voltage be adjusted cause then you can crank the volts and all of a sudden now its actually noticably degrading with 1.5v at 95c rather than 1.2v at 105c, voltage and heat are both factors for degradation and are linked so its fine to run 1v at 110c but it isnt fine to run 1.5v at that same temp and youd want to run the thing <80c to stop it from degrading rapidly with that volt

[Octa Lucilfer]

3 hours ago, unclewebb said:

You are under estimating the possible performance increase. A N4200 running at its base frequency is only 1.1 GHz. Increasing the turbo power limits might let a N4200 run as fast as 2.5 GHz. A 125% increase in CPU speed is something worth trying to unlock. Increasing the package power can also help the Intel GPU maintain full speed longer or indefinitely. 

 

How so? His CPU is only running at 62°C. The N4200 starts to thermal throttle at 105°C. There is plenty of head room available to raise the power limits. Increasing the turbo power limits way beyond the 6W TDP rating is not going to hurt anything. Some users are increasing the turbo power limits to 15W. This can double the iGPU performance.

 

Yes it will still be an old slow processor compared to the latest technology from Intel but increasing the power limits might mean the difference between a useable device and an unuseable device. Not everyone can afford to buy the latest hardware.  

 

Lots of good info in this forum thread about removing the secondary turbo power limits. 

https://techtablets.com/forum/topic/good-news-found-a-way-to-increase-tdp-limit-on-ezbook-3-pro-maybe-any-n3450/page/11/#post-182279

 

DUDE! THANK YOU SO MUCH! Because of you now my cpu does not throttle at all. I've ran cpu z stress test for more than 1 minute and it still stay at 8 watts and no more core power limit exceeded at all! You are awesome dude!

[Octa Lucilfer]

1 hour ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Im curious if modding the bios can change the pp0 limit either as a hidden setting that can be set to user and actually adjusted via amibcp or trying to screw around with the code of the bios if its even there

 

For non ocable locked cpus with no voltage adjustment this point is completely invalid

 

You can run the thing at tjmax for years and have no issues which is apparently 105c? Damn i was expecting more like 100c or prochot set to 90-95c, but still fine to run tjmax 24/7/365, even if it does degrade it wont be noticable for the next decade or 2 aka something else dies well before the cpu starts to show any signs of degradation

 

the danger of heat only comes into play when you have a chip that can be overclocked or atleast have its voltage be adjusted cause then you can crank the volts and all of a sudden now its actually noticably degrading with 1.5v at 95c rather than 1.2v at 105c, voltage and heat are both factors for degradation and are linked so its fine to run 1v at 110c but it isnt fine to run 1.5v at that same temp and youd want to run the thing <80c to stop it from degrading rapidly with that volt

You guys are awesome! Thanks for helping me! Now my problem has been solved. 

[Octa Lucilfer]

10 hours ago, josefah said:

Okay fair enough but how much performance are you expecting to get out of a Pentium proc by increasing the turbo frequency a couple a watts. 1-2%? It's kind of needlessly dangerous. 

Dont underestimate pentium n4200, it even got better score than most of new celeron processor that has 4 cores and can constantly running on 10 watts no problem. When i benchmarked this processor its running maximum 10 watts but it limited for a few seconds. But can achieve higher scores.

[Octa Lucilfer]

27 minutes ago, Octa Lucilfer said:

DUDE! THANK YOU SO MUCH! Because of you now my cpu does not throttle at all. I've ran cpu z stress test for more than 1 minute and it still stay at 8 watts and no more core power limit exceeded at all! You are awesome dude!

It can even raise to 14 watts when playing games! I'm never got that power that high. And it's noticably smoother and higher fps when playing game. But when playing for a long time and my laptop getting very hot it still throttle to max 6 watts, when it throttled the fps is much worse from around 30 fps down to 15 fps when my laptop become too hot.

[josefah]

I stand corrected. Glad you got it working. Guess you do learn something new everyday.