SFF AMD Streaming/Development PC Build Help

[evievi]

Budget (including currency): ~$1200 US before GPU

Country: United States

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Development (ML in Python, Java Development, Visual Studio for C, VSCode, etc.) , VR Gaming, Autodesk Inventor, Emulation, OBS, DaVinci Resolve (Light 1080p work), Games: Elden Ring, Microsoft Flight Simulator, Exapunks

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): 

 

Hi there, I am an american upgrading from my old system shown below:

Current Build:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 1700x

RAM: 12 GB DDR4 2666 MHz (8GB + 4GB stick)

Storage: 128GB SK Hynix SSD + 2 TB WD HDD

GPU: Sapphire RX 570 4GB

Motherboard: MSI A320 Motherboard (Unsure on this part)

OS: Dual Boot with Arch Linux + Windows 10

 

My original rig is actually pretty fine for a lot of things, I am mostly choosing to upgrade because the existing full-size ATX case is inconvenient as a grad student who has to move around a lot. I'd rather have an ITX pc that would make transport better, plus it would be kind of nice to give away the old PC to some family. My hope for upgrading is for better multitasking as the 12 GB of RAM limits how many apps I could run at once without slowdowns/stuttering. I've also been needing to run Virtual Machines more, so being able to have a few extra cores to allocate to Vbox would be nice as well as better CPU speed with the hypervisor/KVM overhead. I'd also like a 10 or 20 gigabit USB-C port for an Oculus Quest 2 and at least a few 5 gigabit USB-A ports for a USB capture card of footage from my GameCube and NES so I can take video at close to full-speed as possible. Good Linux compatibility would also be nice, but I've also been using WSL2 more for development and find it good enough. USB4 would be awesome, but I looked and realistically the only board with it is an ROG board with no FP audio for $410 which I don't want.

 

I got particularly excited about the new Ryzen 9 7900 after seeing LTT and GN's review of it. It seems like its 65 watt TDP isn't too restrictive and if my cooling is good enough, I could get better performance when closer to 90 watts of cooling is present. My main concern is whether it's too early to do an AM5 SFF build? it seems like there's only a few motherboards and I'm seeing reviews of people complaining about teething issues with getting RAM speed right, which is a little concerning to me because typically ITX boards are known for being able to push RAM speeds super high. I did look at the AM4 equivalent non-x Ryzen 9 5900, but it is only available as an OEM CPU for not much more so the only benefit would be using a more mature AM4 motherboard. Do people think that AM5 ITX motherboards are stable?

 

Here is my current build plan. I picked the silverstone SG13 as my case and size, and want to stick around that size. Additionally, I happen to live really close to a Microcenter (I know, very lucky), so being able to pick up parts in person would be really nice and I can take advantage of any in-store deals they have. Windows key isn't a worry in the budget, I get free windows keys from my institution. I also have a set of dual 75Hz 1440p monitors from ViewSonic that I am planning to switch out either for some LG 4k monitors or to some 1440p ~200 Hz monitors (but this will matter more when I get a GPU.

 

CPU: Ryzen 9 7900 (Microcenter) $400 ($380 if motherboard promotion through microcenter)

RAM: Whatever is the cheapest 16x2GB DDR5-6000 CL40 (~$130)

Motherboard: Unsure, either ASRock or MSI ($289-$299)

Storage: I have a 256 GB SATA SSD from a Laptop Upgrade for now, but plan to move to 1 TB NVME + 2 or 1 TB SATA. (~$120)

PSU: EVGA Supernova 750 SFX ($150)

Case: Silverstone SG13 ($57)

 

GPU: waiting, will use my RX 570 in the interim or the iGPU.

Since I don't plan to immediately buy a GPU, having an iGPU for the time being is ok because I won't do any gaming closer to June and I'd rather wait to buy a GPU once more RDNA3/RTX-40 series cards launch.

 

Approximate cost is right now ~$1100 + GPU price

 

Main feedback I want to know:

-Is spending ~$650 for a Zen 4 CPU and motherboard is a good idea? Seems like for an SFF PC with high CPU performance, ryzen 9 7900 is the way.

-What's the best SFF AM5 motherboard right now for what I need? Is it worth waiting for more ITX motherboards to come out or for Ryzen 8000 with more stable DDR5 support?

-It seems like according to the SFF spreadsheet the best cooler I can get is a Noctua NHL-12S if I want an HSF and use an SFX PSU which is preferred but am open to an 120mm AIO which can apparently do up to 120 watts. What kind of TDP CPU should I be looking at given this fact and can any SG13 owners tell me if that's an optimistic TDP number?

-Is there a cheaper way to get a similar performance at the same TDP numbers (maybe something with a few less cores but still good single-thread)?

-What would a similarly spec-ed Intel build look like and what are the tradeoffs?

 

Thank you guys so much!

 

[Jerakl]

26 minutes ago, evievi said:

 

My original rig is actually pretty fine for a lot of things, I am mostly choosing to upgrade because the existing full-size ATX case is inconvenient as a grad student who has to move around a lot. I'd rather have an ITX pc that would make transport better, plus it would be kind of nice to give away the old PC to some family.

 

I hate to suggest it, but because of these lines alone - would it not be better to potentially just get a laptop in this case?

I was in a similar-ish scenario (tl;dr: moving across country and wanted to take an itx desktop with me because I just strongly dislike laptops), but ended up just going with a laptop anyways.

But that being said I don't know the exact kind of portability you're looking for.

That aside, maybe bump up the ram? 16GB is kinda getting to be bare minimum nowawadays. I've personally been running 32GB for a while (I do multitask a lot, but not in the same spaces it sounds like you do) and there are many times I'm over 16GB usage.

 

I can't really comment on much else. I did also do a sff build (along with the laptop as mentioned above) and the sfx PSU was rather pricey. I do know some SFF cases allow ATX psu usage? (Cooler master NR200 I THINK).

[Queen Chrysalis]

If it's an mATX motherboard there are a lot of cases that can take an mATX motherboard and an ATX PSU that are pretty damn small.

 

The Jonsbo D30 and SSUPD Meshroom S come to mind.

[evievi]

36 minutes ago, Jerakl said:

I hate to suggest it, but because of these lines alone - would it not be better to potentially just get a laptop in this case?

 

I was in a similar-ish scenario (tl;dr: moving across country and wanted to take an itx desktop with me because I just strongly dislike laptops), but ended up just going with a laptop anyways.

But that being said I don't know the exact kind of portability you're looking for.

That aside, maybe bump up the ram? 16GB is kinda getting to be bare minimum nowawadays. I've personally been running 32GB for a while (I do multitask a lot, but not in the same spaces it sounds like you do) and there are many times I'm over 16GB usage.

 

I can't really comment on much else. I did also do a sff build (along with the laptop as mentioned above) and the sfx PSU was rather pricey. I do know some SFF cases allow ATX psu usage? (Cooler master NR200 I THINK).

 

-I think that’s very fair, but not what I’m looking for. My institution gave me a really nice M1 Pro MacBook Pro for work use (but it’s not managed lol) and for a number of reasons, I just want a desktop for home use because docking laptops is no fun. USB-C hubs randomly dying, charging pass through issues, audio input issues, whiny fans, etc. are all annoyances I’ve run into using this Mac. And it’s also my understanding that Macs generally have better docking compared to contemporary Windows laptops (when you control for enterprise Windows laptops with docking stations obviously). I do feel a little spoiled upgrading my desktop for that reason but there are some legitimate software incompatibilities on Mac that I’m really looking forward to being done with, one of which being virtualization. Running UTM with x86 emulation because I need to use an x86 Ubuntu image to do something is unbearably slow. I might do some price shopping for Windows laptops though just to see what I can get for around the same $ or less…

 

-Oops I think that’s a typo on RAM. When I said 16x2 I meant 2 16GB sticks for a total of 32GB of RAM. You are right, I definitely need close to 20 GB when I’m running a few VMs or Docker containers and have Python scripts running.

 

-Good to know, thank you. The Silverstone case I’m building in actually does take an ATX PSU and requires a bracket for SFX. The SFF spreadsheet just says that you need an SFX PSU to get enough clearance for air cooling with an NH-12S. Will definitely keep this in mind if I get an AIO and don’t need the SFX PSU

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by evievi
More accurate sentence on my laptop experiences

[evievi]

1 hour ago, Queen Chrysalis said:

If it's an mATX motherboard there are a lot of cases that can take an mATX motherboard and an ATX PSU that are pretty damn small.

 

The Jonsbo D30 and SSUPD Meshroom S come to mind.

 

That’s a good idea. I’ve been looking at mostly mini ITX boards right now because I’ve always thought they were such amazing marvels of engineering, but there’s only a few on the market now and most have mixed reviews with regards to boards not POST-ing and AMD EXPO not working. Maybe a small mATX case makes more sense with how expensive and (potentially?) unreliable current AM5 itx boards are

[Queen Chrysalis]

40 minutes ago, evievi said:

 

That’s a good idea. I’ve been looking at mostly mini ITX boards right now because I’ve always thought they were such amazing marvels of engineering, but there’s only a few on the market now and most have mixed reviews with regards to boards not POST-ing and AMD EXPO not working. Maybe a small mATX case makes more sense with how expensive and (potentially?) unreliable current AM5 itx boards are

Yeah, then you could postpone your upgrade till you actually need new hardware.  By then DDR5 stuff will be more mature and everything should be faster, cheaper, and more refined.

[Jerakl]

9 hours ago, evievi said:

 

That’s a good idea. I’ve been looking at mostly mini ITX boards right now because I’ve always thought they were such amazing marvels of engineering, but there’s only a few on the market now and most have mixed reviews with regards to boards not POST-ing and AMD EXPO not working. Maybe a small mATX case makes more sense with how expensive and (potentially?) unreliable current AM5 itx boards are

If you can find an mATX case that fits your needs I'd say go for it. While mini itx motherboards really are impressive - they're often super expensive and annoying to work with.

From what I can tell most mitx motherboards have every unnecessary feature crammed into them possible. Plugs are all over the place and some can be annoying to reach. 

I've got to disassemble my sff soon to RMA the psu and honestly if one single thing goes wrong afterwards with this build I'm selling it all and starting from scratch with a matx LMAO

 

Also more expendability should you want some sort of non-gpu add on card.

This is assuming of course you can find a case that fits both your preference for size/aesthetic as well as budget.

9 hours ago, evievi said:

 

-I think that’s very fair, but not what I’m looking for. My institution gave me a really nice M1 Pro MacBook Pro for work use (but it’s not managed lol) and for a number of reasons, I just want a desktop for home use because docking laptops is no fun. USB-C hubs randomly dying, charging pass through issues, audio input issues, whiny fans, etc. are all annoyances I’ve run into using this Mac. And it’s also my understanding that Macs generally have better docking compared to contemporary Windows laptops (when you control for enterprise Windows laptops with docking stations obviously). I do feel a little spoiled upgrading my desktop for that reason but there are some legitimate software incompatibilities on Mac that I’m really looking forward to being done with, one of which being virtualization. Running UTM with x86 emulation because I need to use an x86 Ubuntu image to do something is unbearably slow. I might do some price shopping for Windows laptops though just to see what I can get for around the same $ or less…

 

Heavily agree.

Like I said I ended up building one anyways. Logistics of carting a mini itx pc across the country still didn't work compared to a laptop unfortunately.

There's something about the desktop experience that is just so much more connected (?). Not to mention all the reasons you listed, as well as stuff like potential upgradability etc, etc.