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RAM Compatibility

dkman
By dkman
in Troubleshooting
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Go to solution Solved by Chris Pratt,

First, the QVL list isn't exhaustive. Plenty of stuff works just fine even if it's not on the QVL. However, Asus basically just doesn't want to deal unless it's a kit that is known to be fine. I can't say I necessarily blame them, but they are kind of blowing you off.

 

So, there's two things that are potentially hurting you here. First, the Ripjaws V 16GB sticks are each dual ranked, so you were running a total of 8 ranks with all four slots filled. That's harder on the IMC. The Trident Z Neo 16GB sticks are each single ranked, which will be better for you anyway with four sticks. Ryzen works best with four total ranks.

 

Second, running all four slots is also harder on the IMC. You'll always have a better chance of running the RAM at its rated clocks and timings with just two sticks, but that doesn't mean 4 sticks is impossible, obviously. It's just typically you'll only run into issues like this when you're populating all four in the first place.

 

17 minutes ago, dkman said:

If you go to the specification page all of the timings shown are the same.  Of course the price wasn't the same.  And other sites will say that the difference is "tighter timings".

 

Indeed, they are the exact same timings. Not sure who is saying one has tighter timings than the other, but that's not true.

19 minutes ago, dkman said:

And shouldn't the RAM I have work fine, even if it were slower than optimal?

Yes and no. The JEDEC standard for DDR4 is either 2666MHz or 3200MHz, depending on the CPU. Anything over JEDEC is an OC. This is what the XMP profiles are, they are literally profiles for OCing the RAM to get it at its rated speed. As with any OC, YMMV. Generally, applying XMP works flawlessly, but not always, and some CPUs handle it better than others, even within the same line and model. In situations where it doesn't work right out of the box, you can sometimes up the voltage or drop the clocks a little to get it to work. Like, maybe it will run at 3200MHz, but just not at 3600MHz. That's still not ideal, obviously, because you paid for 3600MHz, but sometimes you can tighten the timings a bit to make up for the difference somewhat.

 

25 minutes ago, dkman said:

I would think that I could go in and force it to 20-20-20-40 just for stability's sake.  There are tons of lesser timing settings that I just don't know how to tweak though.  I just find it odd that the system is so unstable now.

You can't just apply random timings. Each timing is for a particular function of the RAM, like how long it takes read a row, or lock/unlock a cell. As such, they all somewhat depend on each other, and you need the right combination of timings.

 

Posted

I've maybe had minor issues before, but never anything like this.  I got excited by the new GPUs and CPUs coming out so I built a new system in the November timeframe.  It was a pain getting certain parts, but I got what I wanted (or close enough).

 

I got an Asus Tuf Gaming X570 Pro Wifi and 64GB GSkill CL16 RAM.

 

Everything seemed to work fine for 4 or 5 months (with some blips, but overall OK) then the motherboard decided it had enough and wanted the RAM out.  It started rebooting randomly. I get errors when running freshly compiled programs.  I reboot out of the blue while gaming, etc.

 

Running the Windows 10 memory test runs into an error almost immediately.  I took out all but 1 stick and it does the same, with all of the sticks.

 

I contacted Asus and they said I should try RAM that is on the QVL.  https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketAM4/PRIME_X570-PRO/Memory_QVL_for_AMD_Ryzen_5000_Series_Processors_X570_0423.pdf

 

So I have RAM on the QVL showing up tomorrow.

 

Just out of curiosity I checked out the RAM site.  GSkill says the RAM I have should be fine.

https://www.gskill.com/configurator?page=1&cls=1529635169&manufacturer=1524725352&chipset=1603955103&model=1603956407&adSearch2=Capacity%C2%A764GB%20(16GBx4),Tested_Speed%C2%A73600MHz,Tested_Latency%C2%A716-19-19-39,

What I have is F4-3600C16Q-64GVKC (Ripjaws V, DDR4-3600MHz CL16-19-19-39 1.35V, 64GB (4x16GB))

The new RAM coming is F4-3600C16Q-64GTZNC (Trident Z Neo, DDR4-3600MHz CL16-19-19-39 1.35V,64GB (4x16GB))

If you go to the specification page all of the timings shown are the same.  Of course the price wasn't the same.  And other sites will say that the difference is "tighter timings".
 
The BIOS gives you lots of control over RAM timings.  But where do I get the information to put into there?
 
And shouldn't the RAM I have work fine, even if it were slower than optimal?
 
I would think that I could go in and force it to 20-20-20-40 just for stability's sake.  There are tons of lesser timing settings that I just don't know how to tweak though.  I just find it odd that the system is so unstable now.
 
I should add that I updated the BIOS just to see if that would "fix" it, but it did not.
I didn't mess with the BIOS options afterward, I left it all Auto.
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  • Solution

First, the QVL list isn't exhaustive. Plenty of stuff works just fine even if it's not on the QVL. However, Asus basically just doesn't want to deal unless it's a kit that is known to be fine. I can't say I necessarily blame them, but they are kind of blowing you off.

 

So, there's two things that are potentially hurting you here. First, the Ripjaws V 16GB sticks are each dual ranked, so you were running a total of 8 ranks with all four slots filled. That's harder on the IMC. The Trident Z Neo 16GB sticks are each single ranked, which will be better for you anyway with four sticks. Ryzen works best with four total ranks.

 

Second, running all four slots is also harder on the IMC. You'll always have a better chance of running the RAM at its rated clocks and timings with just two sticks, but that doesn't mean 4 sticks is impossible, obviously. It's just typically you'll only run into issues like this when you're populating all four in the first place.

 

17 minutes ago, dkman said:

If you go to the specification page all of the timings shown are the same.  Of course the price wasn't the same.  And other sites will say that the difference is "tighter timings".

 

Indeed, they are the exact same timings. Not sure who is saying one has tighter timings than the other, but that's not true.

19 minutes ago, dkman said:

And shouldn't the RAM I have work fine, even if it were slower than optimal?

Yes and no. The JEDEC standard for DDR4 is either 2666MHz or 3200MHz, depending on the CPU. Anything over JEDEC is an OC. This is what the XMP profiles are, they are literally profiles for OCing the RAM to get it at its rated speed. As with any OC, YMMV. Generally, applying XMP works flawlessly, but not always, and some CPUs handle it better than others, even within the same line and model. In situations where it doesn't work right out of the box, you can sometimes up the voltage or drop the clocks a little to get it to work. Like, maybe it will run at 3200MHz, but just not at 3600MHz. That's still not ideal, obviously, because you paid for 3600MHz, but sometimes you can tighten the timings a bit to make up for the difference somewhat.

 

25 minutes ago, dkman said:

I would think that I could go in and force it to 20-20-20-40 just for stability's sake.  There are tons of lesser timing settings that I just don't know how to tweak though.  I just find it odd that the system is so unstable now.

You can't just apply random timings. Each timing is for a particular function of the RAM, like how long it takes read a row, or lock/unlock a cell. As such, they all somewhat depend on each other, and you need the right combination of timings.

 

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X · Cooler: Artic Liquid Freezer II 280 · Motherboard: MSI MEG X570 Unify · RAM: G.skill Ripjaws V 2x16GB 3600MHz CL16 (2Rx8) · Graphics Card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3060 Ti TUF Gaming · Boot Drive: 500GB WD Black SN750 M.2 NVMe SSD · Game Drive: 2TB Crucial MX500 SATA SSD · PSU: Corsair White RM850x 850W 80+ Gold · Case: Corsair 4000D Airflow · Monitor: MSI Optix MAG342CQR 34” UWQHD 3440x1440 144Hz · Keyboard: Corsair K100 RGB Optical-Mechanical Gaming Keyboard (OPX Switch) · Mouse: Corsair Ironclaw RGB Wireless Gaming Mouse

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Thank you for the response.  That was very informative and helpful.

 

I totally missed that the V were dual ranked vs the Z being single ranked.

 

I follow what you're saying about 4 sticks working the controller harder.  I actually pulled 2 sticks out yesterday to see if that would help, unfortunately it didn't.

 

OC:

I was confused by some motherboards saying that 3600 was OC yet memory was sold at 3600.  That makes a lot more sense now.

 

Timings:

That's why I went up on all 4 timings.  If a task truly takes 16 or 19 ms (or whatever time units) but I tell it to time at 20 ms I figure that the hardware should always be ready and waiting when the next instruction is issued.  Though I understand that it may not work that way.

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