x570 vs b450

[DaYn95]

Hello to all,

 

i am currently looking to upgrade my CPU and RAM. Looking for advice on my motherboard choice.

 

I wanted to buy the Gygabite Aorus Elite x570 because i read that the new Ryzen chips perform best on the x570 boards. Another reason for me to buy a x570 board is that it has PCIe 4.0 for a future GPU upgrade.

On the other hand the b450 boards are much cheaper. 

 

Do you think it is worth it spending the extra 100€ to ensure future upgrade possibilities and better CPU performance?

 

I also read that 3600MHz Ram is supposed to be the "sweet spot" for the new Ryzen chips. Currently looking at 16GB 3600Mhz Cl16. Would there be a hit in performance if i switched to 3200MHz Cl16?

 

CPU upgrade will be the Ryzen 5 3600, maybe 3600x depending on if i really want borderlands 3. I know there isnt much of a performance upgrade.

PC is mainly used for Gaming and some CAD work.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

Cheers from Germany,

DaYn95

[TheGlenlivet]

If you don't need PCIE4 then you can skip x570.

B450 Tomohawk Max seems to be the best deal in b450 boards at the moment.  Good VRM and flashback to upgrade BIOS without a CPU if needed.

You can get 3600 ram to work on it for sure.

I have a b350 with an R5 3600 that has 3600mhz ram working fin.

[DaYn95]

Thanks for your answer! PCIe 4.0 is used for some M.2 SSDs, which i dont need, and potentially future GPUs. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

5 minutes ago, TheGlenlivet said:

If you don't need PCIE4 then you can skip x570.

B450 Tomohawk Max seems to be the best deal in b450 boards at the moment.  Good VRM and flashback to upgrade BIOS without a CPU if needed.

You can get 3600 ram to work on it for sure.

I have a b350 with an R5 3600 that has 3600mhz ram working fin.

 

[TheGlenlivet]

3 minutes ago, DaYn95 said:

Thanks for your answer! PCIe 4.0 is used for some M.2 SSDs, which i dont need, and potentially future GPUs. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Nope, you got it right. Those are the current 2 uses.  However, PCIe3 is fast enough for all current GPUs in gaming and M.2 is fast enough that you won't notice the difference in speed from 3 to 4 unless you are bench marking or moving GIANT files around.

The "future proofing" argument is one reason to upgrade, but the current uses for PCIe4 just aren't worth it in my opinion.

[DaYn95]

28 minutes ago, TheGlenlivet said:

Nope, you got it right. Those are the current 2 uses.  However, PCIe3 is fast enough for all current GPUs in gaming and M.2 is fast enough that you won't notice the difference in speed from 3 to 4 unless you are bench marking or moving GIANT files around.

The "future proofing" argument is one reason to upgrade, but the current uses for PCIe4 just aren't worth it in my opinion.

Alright thanks a lot for your help! Do you think switching to 3200Mhz CL16 would decrease performance by a lot? Should i stick to the 3600Mhz CL 16 RAM?

[TheGlenlivet]

2 minutes ago, DaYn95 said:

Alright thanks a lot for your help! Do you think switching to 3200Mhz CL16 would decrease performance by a lot? Should i stick to the 3600Mhz CL 16 RAM?

No not a lot.  There are a lot of benchmarks out there for 3200 vs 3600 on ryzen and the changes in performance are a few frames here and there.

If you already have 3200 ram, I don't think it's worth buying 3600.  Especially when you consider you can OC it...

[DaYn95]

6 minutes ago, TheGlenlivet said:

No not a lot.  There are a lot of benchmarks out there for 3200 vs 3600 on ryzen and the changes in performance are a few frames here and there.

If you already have 3200 ram, I don't think it's worth buying 3600.  Especially when you consider you can OC it...

Thank you for your input! You helped a lot! Saved me some cash too! I currently only have DDR3 RAM so i'm going to buy new RAM anyways, but 40€ more doesnt seem worth the upgrade to 3600.

[TheGlenlivet]

1 minute ago, DaYn95 said:

Thank you for your input! You helped a lot! Saved me some cash too! I currently only have DDR3 RAM so i'm going to buy new RAM anyways, but 40€ more doesnt seem worth the upgrade to 3600.

Yeah, look at the video below.

 

Not a huge difference.  It's up to you to decide it it's worth it.

[DaYn95]

Perfect. Just what i needed. Looking forward to installing all my new parts! Might spend the extra bucks i saved on a bigger SSD, since i only have 250gb of SSD storage atm.

Again thanks a lot!

15 minutes ago, TheGlenlivet said:

Yeah, look at the video below.

 

Not a huge difference.  It's up to you to decide it it's worth it.

 

[Otto_iii]

1 hour ago, DaYn95 said:

I wanted to buy the Gygabite Aorus Elite x570 because i read that the new Ryzen chips perform best on the x570 boards. Another reason for me to buy a x570 board is that it has PCIe 4.0 for a future GPU upgrade.

On the other hand the b450 boards are much cheaper. 

1. Only if you are doing production work that demands loading, or copying/pasting huge files, even basic SATA III SSD speeds are lightning fast compared to a HDD

2.Other instance one could argue is if building ITX as the worthwhile x470 (i think it was x470 not b450) ITX are nearly the same prices as the superior x570 ITX boards, which all have great VRMs.  

3. So far as good value B450 look for a MSI Tomahawk or ASRock B450 Pro4/B450m Pro4 (M-ATX version), there are a few lists like this one, likely the ASRock as its cheaper and believe some of its feature set is better, but arguably the MSI has a nicer BIOS for tinkering with overclocks etc.  VRMs about the same, can handle all the 3000 series, overclock run PBO+Auto OC up to the 3700/3800x (manual 1.325V overclocks usually run cooler with less wattage on Ryzen 3000)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-ZwVuH_tinzgpsOdfMvYeCLI5ZbIpnq5fyiWD4NCkkU/edit#gid=229691480
Anything mid-range is fine, if nothing else just don't get garbage-tier 

1 hour ago, DaYn95 said:

I also read that 3600MHz Ram is supposed to be the "sweet spot" for the new Ryzen chips. Currently looking at 16GB 3600Mhz Cl16. Would there be a hit in performance if i switched to 3200MHz Cl16?

RipJaws recently released a good 3600 CL16 for very good price, search model " F4-3600C16D-16GVKC " https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232880?Description=ripjaws 3600&cm_re=ripjaws_3600-_-20-232-880-_-Product ...The main thing with Ryzen 3000 is atleast having 3600 speed, or having insanely tight timings, you want atleast one of those two things if not both and if you haven't played with ram timings a cheap 3600 kit is your best bet.

So since both are CL16 i'd go with 3600 kit, especially if you can find the kit linked above in your region as its cheaper then a lot of 3200mhz kit but performs better (its not samsung B-die, instead Micron E, Quad Rank.)  I'd go for a 3200 CL14 Samsung B-die kit over aformentioned RipJaws kit if price was similar due to samsung b-die's ability to run insanely tight timings easily with the 'Ryzen Dram Calculator', but here in US the 3200 speed CL14 Samsung B-die kits are is still about 2x the price. 

1 hour ago, DaYn95 said:

CPU upgrade will be the Ryzen 5 3600, maybe 3600x depending on if i really want borderlands 3.

That is at best like +100-150mhz upgrade if anything at all, but fair point with borderlands.  If you had extra cash i'd get 3700x instead which usually has same clocks as 3600x, probably also comes with borderlands (not sure but worth checking) and very good stock CPU Cooler.  That said the Spire cooler is atleast half decent compared to the absolute garbage tier Stealth cooler that comes with the 3600x, so think of it more as "Do i want Borderlands 3, or do i want to spend 30-50$ on a aftermarket cooler for less noise/better thermals." because likely you aren't going to want to keep the Wraith Stealth, its awful.

Whatever fits your fancy

[DaYn95]

2 minutes ago, Otto_iii said:

If both are CL16 i'd go with 3600 kit, especially if you can find this kit in your region as its cheaper then a lot of 3200mhz kit but performs better (its not samsung B-die, instead Micron E, Quad Rank.) 

Well 3600 kits are at least 40€ more expensive where i live. I found a really good Black Friday deal on 3200 so its going to be hard to top that. 

6 minutes ago, Otto_iii said:

That is at best like +100-150mhz upgrade if anything at all, if you had extra cash i'd get 3700x instead which usually has same clocks as 3600x.  However the Spire cooler is atleast half decent compared to the absolute garbage tier Stealth cooler that comes with the 3600x, so think of it more as "Do i want Borderlands 3, or do i want to spend 30-50$ on a aftermarket cooler for less noise/better thermals."

I have a good aftermarket cooler so that shouldn't be the reason for me to upgrade. I feel like the 3600 will give me enough power for gaming or would you recommend getting the 3700x?

[Otto_iii]

R5 3600 is sufficient, still excellent, i'd only get the 3700x if you are more heavily focused on mutli-tasking like streaming, or play demanding DX12 games while viewing multiple streams on another monitor etc.  Both can do it the 3700 is just a bit better for multi-tasking, but in all likelyhood the 3600 is good enough.  More just mentioned it because if not for Borderlands 3 offer being a concern, i'd think 3600x is a bit over-priced, but go for 3600x if BL3 is a huge bonus, not like you'r loosing money or performance since you have a cooler and want that game.

3200 CL16 ram likely will still run pretty decent btw, i started out with 2x4gb 2933 CL17 and it was fine.  Just wanted to mention the ripjaws incase you do have them available in your region, its worth checking as they offer alot for the $ in regards to Ryzen 3000

[DaYn95]

10 minutes ago, Otto_iii said:

3200 CL16 ram likely will still run pretty decent btw, i started out with 2x4gb 2933 CL17 and it was fine.  Just wanted to mention the ripjaws incase you do have them available in your region, its worth checking as they offer alot for the $ in regards to Ryzen 3000

So i just found 3600 cl19 for the same price. Do you think 3200cl16 or 3600cl19 would be better?

[Otto_iii]

I'd side with 3600CL19, especially if you plan to just plug and play, as with this you are keeping it closer to maximum for infinity fabric (FCLK) speed.  With tweaking they are probably both about exactly as capable as eachother, but for convenience 3600

What are the subtimings? like CL16-18-18-36 vs  CL19-20-20-40, or is it like CL19-22-22-48 or something crazy high?

[DaYn95]

41 minutes ago, Otto_iii said:

I'd side with 3600CL19, especially if you plan to just plug and play, as with this you are keeping it closer to maximum for infinity fabric (FCLK) speed.  With tweaking they are probably both about exactly as capable as eachother, but for convenience 3600

Sounds like a good reason to buy 3600.

41 minutes ago, Otto_iii said:

What are the subtimings? like CL16-18-18-36 vs  CL19-20-20-40, or is it like CL19-22-22-48 or something crazy high?

3200 CL16 (16-18-18) and 3600 CL19-20-20-40

[Otto_iii]

Yup if same price, and you aren't worried about what die type it is, tweaking timings etc, just get the 3600 in that case. 

I only asked cause i vageuly remember seeing some 3600 CL?? with insanely high tertiary timings in the past.  18-20-20 isn't super speedy, but its fine for plug-n-play ease of install

[atxcyclist]

4 hours ago, DaYn95 said:

Thanks for your answer! PCIe 4.0 is used for some M.2 SSDs, which i dont need, and potentially future GPUs. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I saw a test a while back that shows PCI-E 3.0 x8 just barely limited performance (3%) on an RTX 2080 Ti. We're a long way before Gen 3.0 x16 will be a limiting factor in video cards. Personally, I'd rather have a B450 board to avoid the active cooling most X570 boards require.

[DaYn95]

4 hours ago, Otto_iii said:

Yup if same price, and you aren't worried about what die type it is, tweaking timings etc, just get the 3600 in that case. 

I only asked cause i vageuly remember seeing some 3600 CL?? with insanely high tertiary timings in the past.  18-20-20 isn't super speedy, but its fine for plug-n-play ease of install

Alright. I got the 3600MHz. Thank you for your input!

 

4 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

I saw a test a while back that shows PCI-E 3.0 x8 just barely limited performance (3%) on an RTX 2080 Ti. We're a long way before Gen 3.0 x16 will be a limiting factor in video cards. Personally, I'd rather have a B450 board to avoid the active cooling most X570 boards require.

Awesome. That just justifies me switching to the B450.

 

Thank all of you for your help. This has helped immensely.