plurus

Fr, what steve claimed is exactly what linus did and he tripled down on the issue in here so it's not like he would've commented any different.

wasn't steve the one that texted linus about the hack? They were on decent terms until tim called out GN/HUB imo

So one thing I was getting from Linus' "explanation" of this was that because the monoblock was ungodly expensive then it was not in consumers' best interest and noone should purchase it.   
Ok explain then why you also review multiple processor mega builds and review them at benchmark.  But those are different how?   Noone in their right mind will be making those kinds of builds either, but maybe its because its Billet Labs is a small startup, and Intel is a sponsor and has deep enough pockets for you.
 
I've been following LTT since some of the early days of youtube.  I've seen the channel go from a guy building PCs and reviewing with an unbiased eye to make decisions on pieces I wanted to build with, to seeing sponsors and receiving tech left right and center for free and then reviewing those free items favorably.  I'm willing to accept a fair bit of advertising on channels.  I understand that everyone making videos deserves the opportunity to make a good living at it.  But when every video is a very poorly veiled advertisement and sponsors receive favorable reviews while when you spend your own money on a product or its an "unknown" company or they dont sponsor you, suddenly they're not worth it, suddenly they receive poor reviews against sponsor products (Noctua anyone?)
 
I've already slowed my consumption of LTT, and really, for a channel and organization of this size, my lost subscription and lost views mean nothing.  My views on a forum arent going to impact the executive structure of LMG.  I'm just another voice in the crowd, and that voice clearly doesnt matter to a large organization who is worth millions of dollars.   But I will be finding another source for tech content.  One that does not give favorable reviews to their sponsors' products, who actually test products properly, and who dont steal from startups to SELL/AUCTION prototypes and then claim that they didnt read the room properly.
 
Do better.

From a check, the English CC is fine. Setting it to "Auto-translate, English" dumps the whole caption into one screen. 

To LTT's excuse, I did see a similar thing-turns out, it was just Google trying to do English-English "translation" of the caption. So yeah, check what "language" YT chose for the captions. 

To LTT's excuse, I did see a similar thing-turns out, it was just Google trying to do English-English "translation" of the caption. So yeah, check what "language" YT chose for the captions. 

And he said that many times himself. There, on a wan show, he says live that 800 per month is just rounding error correction - he says its not even a rounding error and when they found out that it is $800 per month they laughed
He also claims that they "probably spend more on snacks" - so this excuse with "it would cost $500 :(" is just made up completly, and he has to know that. He doesnt treat $800 per month too seriosuly. Thats just his way to make it sound like a lot for people who forget how massive LTT is.

But there is something tragic-funny in the fact that they are happy to spend money on snacks but wont spend them to give start-up proper chance. More tragic than funny but its so absurd.

How was it a hit piece? To me it seems more like an expose. As one person stated Linus isn’t going to date you. Stop trying to white knight on his behalf when he clearly fucked up.

Agreed. Laying out all the claims in a video and detailing/accounting for each one would be great and at least would show LTT recognizes the mistakes. Just leaving it or ignoring it is dumb, as it shows that LTT is not willing to deal with these issues which would hurt their reputation more.

Before I start, I want this to be objective as possible. I don't like that Steve did not seem to reach out for comments, but with that said I think a lot of the super loyal viewers want some questions answered @LinusTech.  I am a big fan, but if you are not going to talk about this on WAN show then can you take the time to at least answer some questions
 
1. In the WAN show you stated that to retest the block on a 3090 TI it would cost 500 ( I know thats not exact)  dollars. That is a large correction and 500$ of company money is a drop in the bucket. As you said, there is no bad product, just a bad price and then went out of your way on WAN show to call it a bad product. And if 500$ is too much money to spend on properly retesting a product , then why should we trust anything that the labs puts out? Things can happen during testing, and if 500$ is not worth it to a multi million dollar company who preaches that they want to be THE SOURCE for all objective test reviews, then that just does not sit well with me. Also why did you not make a decision that could have changed the whole course of a video? 
 
2. If 500$ is what it cost to make a major correction, then how much would it cost to make a small correction? I can understand why you personally don't want to do that, but there is there no other host that can pop on camera real quick and say "This is actually..." and get back to the video
 
3. You have been saying for a long time that you are working on stuff for optimizing the writing team and the lab, and trying to get them to work as closely as possible, but there has not been a noticeable impact (too me it seems like its gotten worse, but that could be placebo) Can you explain what you are doing right now? What systems/practices are you putting in place so that we don't see so many small corrections in videos? You know better than anyone that most people are not reading the pinned comment for a correction, and youtube took annotations. 
 
4. Are there any other QA practices that are coming from the video. There were some pretty egregious mistakes in the GPU charts, and it seemed like either nobody caught them, or nobody cared to change them. I think the charts are the most important part of those videos and for those to be wrong by such a large margin is concerning. What will you do as the vision man, but also the efficiency man to fix that.
 
There is no such thing as a bad product, just a bad price. Your words. Then you went out of your way to say that the waterblock is a bad product. I don't think your opinion should be the one that viewers need to listen to. I think it should be the data and the price, and you only laughed at the price and did not back it up with the proper data. I agree that I would never buy the thing, but I can see weird niche use cases for a water block like that. The same weird niche things that LTT loves to make videos on, but for some reason you doubled down and went out of your way to slam this product. You don't have to justify the product, just tell us what is does, the price, and let it rip. People can imagine fun use cases for that and I hope you see the value in that.
 
While Steve's video is unfair in terms of not giving you any opportunity to comment on these issues, I think it opens up conversation for what is changing and improving. A lot of viewers have been saying they feel like quality in how LTT reviews products and gets info across has gone down overtime, and while you can disagree with that, the fact is a lot of people feel that way. I know nobody is sitting on their butts doing nothing, but we as the viewers don't know whats going on in terms of the changes being made because of the lab and how it cooperates with the writing team. I hope you reply to this, I use you as inspiration on how to ethically run a company and I hold you in high regard. I don't agree with everything, but you have been doing admirable so far and many others would agree.
 
Keep up the good fight. I want to see you succeed

What context was needed? They sold something that wasn’t theirs to sell.

Agreed, that seems disingenuous to accept a product to only crap on it, I don't understand why they would go through all the production and filming to only bash on a product instead of reviewing it fairly for the graphics card it was made for.
There have been issues before with journalistic accuracy, and the unrealistic expectation put on his staff to put out videos, Linus always dismisses this and blames the youtube algorithm. I think the video quality would be a lot better, and viewers would be happier with better videos rather than more entertainment. Although I think LTT has caused their own problem of creating entertainment over quality content, and a majority of their targeted audience expects entertainment. At the least I think their LTT labs should be separated into another channel, if LTT can take the time to get their data right having more critically accurate testing information would be a benefit for the community.
 
A possible hot take, but I'm not sure Linus even really cares. He's already put the blame on GN Steve for not addressing him privately, and doesn't want to address this whole situation publicly in a video, it just seems like a bad take and only makes the optics of this issue seem worse.

That kinda sounds like an excuse for sloppiness right off the bat.
 
If it's not done, then why is it being utilised? Keep the Lab to one side until it can provide a genuine benefit to LMG. You wouldn't release the screwdriver with a bad ratchet and then release a V2 6 months later, so why is the labs able to turn out sloppy work now?
 
To regular viewers maybe. You have over 15m subs, but not 15m views per video, which would indicate from your subs alone not ALL of them take everything in. There is no point saying on one channel that the Lab isn't up to speed, and then using the "when we sent it to the lab" line on another like it's an authority on the matter. So far as comms goes, again, its sloppy.
 
 
I think this seems to miss the point some are making on this. Did it REALLY matter in this isolated instance? No. Should it have passed QC before being put live to a potential audience of 15m subs+new viewers? Also no - again, sloppy. And it wasn't isolated. Also, one of the points is that the accuracy of your testing isn't wholly reliable either. If the on screen specs and the testing data is wrong often enough, then why would anyone take an LMG videos word on it if/when it is accurate? 
 
 
On this we agree. To be inaccurate would at least involve the pretence to being accurate in the first place, whereas using a 3090 block on a 4090 doesn't even pretend to be accurate. Personally, rather than inaccurate, I would call the whole video, response, and attitude to Billet as misrepresentative. The practicality of the block and the conclusion that you wouldn't recommend it would almost certainly stand if it was tested competently, but the route taken to the conclusion instead, and the dismissive tone (which is subjective, granted) did not come off well. When Facebook very first started, there was nothing about it in the early days that anyone would have picked up on to say it would become a multi-billion valued company. But if another company did a piece to millions of people saying it was pointless, useless, and then doubled down on it, while also reviewing it as a dating site because they got their whole prep, planning, and organisation wrong, it maybe never would have (and frankly I wouldn't miss it, but that beside the point). It just came across as a wilfully lacklustre video taking a dump on Billet.
 
FYI, that's still a sale. Money to charity or not, but the wider world has no knowledge on any of this situation, so I'll zip it on that one.
 
I thought the $500 was the issue? What you say here doesn't sound dismissive and I do genuinely believe it. To a degree. Just admit you goofed on a video, and the video output numbers trumped video accuracy/quality in this instance. 
 
 
So when Steve publicly points out flaws, errors and other issues with LMG, it's a disappointment, but when it's you calling out Billet it's tough love for them to do better? Pick a side. Either advocate for tough love, or the softly-softly approach.
 
Agreed.
 
That feels like an open goal, but I'm not going to take it...
 
 
If your having issues often enough to discern them as 'regularly' then again I think some inwards reflection could be used here. It wasn't always the way. I've been watching since 2015, and whilst I don't expect dildo racing to return any time soon, some care for the final product and not just the numbers would definitely be noticed. More channels+More videos does not = more quality. More numbers, maybe, but if that's what matters, LMG will need to roll with the punches.
 
Yes, I hope so. But saying it doesn't reach anyone, the final product proving it does. Plenty of opportunity for that.
 
1000% - honestly, as much as Steve's video had valid points, it appears to be an excuse for people to vent issues that apparently have been with some people for a long time. At the very least, it could be a jumping off point to address issues, a lot of which may not even have been widely known or accepted in LMG HQ.
 
 
Did the CEO of Billet send you that?

What was nonsensical about his post? Nothing in the GN video was particularly hyperbolic. LTT has thus far done an abominable job of addressing any of the criticisms levied against them. This isn’t pitchforks, people have a right to be concerned and to voice those concerns.

After seeing his half-assed response I'm even more appalled. He is literally doing the typical corporate response of fucking up: being silent when called out and hoping everyone will forget about this. It's not a surprise though he himself brought up the point of the internet forgetting things in the last WAN show. How a previous youtuber who got canceled off the face of the earth is now making videos. Guess he took a page out of that book.
There should absolutely be a WAN show segment on this otherwise Linus is a coward.

@LinusTech
First of all, thank you for the prompt response. Unfortunately, the answer has only deepened my disappointment and further eroded my trust in LTT. The comment about the pitchforks particularly struck a chord. I believe this highlights that the issues raised have been a concern for many in the community for some time. Responding with disappointment doesn't help anyone.
 
If the topics Steve raised were truly non-issues, the community's reaction, especially here, would be different. Reading Linus's statement, I got an even stronger impression that he's losing touch with the community. It seems he's looking down from his ivory tower, unable to understand the discontent among his followers.
Since the union incident (which I'd like to leave aside as there might be cultural differences at play), I've noticed more and more statements and behaviors characteristic of people in power, who aren't often contradicted on an equal footing. Linus claims he's always open to feedback and that anyone can approach him, but being in such a position means recognizing that mere words aren't enough.
 
Listening to the interviews with the staff, it's a recurring theme that they all wish for better quality and more time. This begs the question: why isn't this feedback being escalated? Given the number of employees who've voiced this concern, there shouldn't be any difficulty in garnering support for it unless such concerns never reach the top where decisions are made.
 
LTT boasts a host of capable employees, and it's clear to me that they're deeply passionate about their work. However, I feel that the management is falling short, and Linus is losing touch not just with his employees, but more crucially, with the community. I hope someone like Luke will sit down with Linus and explain to him why a "trust me bro" attitude no longer works and why he can't react to community criticism with disappointment.
 
I'm glad GN released the video, giving the community an avenue to express their feelings and concerns and ensuring they're heard.

On the WAN show where he addressed this video, he doubled down and said that even if it was 20 degrees cooler he'd still say not to buy it, so he had no intention whatsoever of giving it a good review because of the price. He knew the price before he got the product, so he knew he had no intention of a good review, pretty vindictive imo.

GN's video is the constructive criticism. Linus replied here saying that GN shouldn't have published it and they should've kept that private LOL. And he strongly implied that GN acted in bad faith.
 
Linus is undefendable right now. 

- Whether or not folks here have a "Personal Investment in Billet Labs" is 100% wholly irrelevant in every way. You don't have to have personal investment in something to understand what may have happened to them was immensely shitty.
- Money doesn't fix everything. This is a pretty big goddamn "Whoopsie" that requires a bit more of a "We fucked up, bad, here's how we're going to fix it" kind of response rather than just a check. However, if Billet Labs have said "All good", that's all that's really needed at the end of the day as far as making them whole.
 
Additionally, everyone saying that this is personal to Steve...likely? I mean, I'd imagine it has some level of personal tinge to it. You don't get to know people in an industry and not at least have some emotional attachment to them. To say that doesn't happen at all is absolutely wrong.

Stop speaking in generalities as a response to the video either way. If you're wanting to watch the video only to hate watch it and react (in either direction), back off the keyboard warrior mentality for a sec and think it through. There's a hefty amount of fast reacts going on here one way or the other and y'all need to step back and take stock.
 
Thinking you're rebutting a 44 minute video which CLEARLY has a lot of data to it in a simple forum post is folly.

Take time to digest. Sheesh.

I didn’t get that from Steve at all, you could see the reluctance he had in making the video ……. let’s not forget who took the swing at GN.

To me, it looks like Linus is adopting the Silicon Valley mindset of "Move fast and break things" (sometimes literally). Which is fine when he's remodeling his house, or doing silly projects. But when it's a GPU review that people will be relying on because he has millions of subscribers, its unacceptable. I understand that GPU manufacturers aren't making it easy by setting embargo dates that are the same date that reviewers get cards, but as a reviewer, you need to provide accurate information first and foremost.

The Billet Labs thing is heartbreaking. Imagine being the people making that. Linus says he doesnt want to spend 500 dollars worth someones time retesting it but hes absolutely fine with stealing and selling off something someone has worked on for hundreds, maybe even thousands of hours? Even more tragically there might not even be a contractual agreement and Billet Labs might not be able to afford a lawsuit. Im going to unsub and not watch a second of LMG content until this is resolved and i urge others to do the same. 

Billet Labs have been treated disgustingly by Linus and LMG and they should be ashamed of themselves.
 
They set that block up for failure from the start, used wrong card model entirely, wasn’t mounted correct as a result, shot the block to bits in the review because they made a mes sod the review, didn’t send it back and then sold it at auction.
 
And in the WAN show he just continued to double down on dumping all over the block even though LMG did everything wrong.
 
That section made me very upset and Linus deserves everything he gets for that one.
 
 
As for the shoddy results from tests, well when you don’t take stickers of a mouse then criticise it ……. hardly a shock the rest of the standards are suspect.
 
There are some questions around impartiality but the biggest issue is how dirty they did billet labs.

What I seem to notice in the entire conversation is people talking about the Framework investment as something they were aware of, and that they are fine by it! Some people defending Linus as just being Linus or that they explained this issue on WAN. WAN is specifically watched almost exclusively by those who are long term followers of the channel. What about the average joe who was googling which graphic card to buy or is that cooler better than this one? LTT being one of the largest tech video is often recommended on the top of these search results and can horribly misguide a person's opinion! LTT is not a channel just for its subscribers when they release a PRODUCT REVIEW. This was said countless times by LINUS himself and the very fact these factual errors are popping in more than they should is an absolute crime for a channel of LTTs size.

This needs to be addressed, and not just in a WAN Show segment. 

I'm not running a multi-million dollar company, and I'm not responsible for hundreds of people's livelihoods, but in my opinion, it would be the best thing to do to cut down the quantity of videos in favor of quality. A mistake here and there is fine; after all, we are all just human, but some of the bigger ones just can not happen. 

Again, I don't know how it would affect their bottom line, but some changes need to happen. In the end, LMG has a responsibility to their viewers because many of us influence purchasing decisions by implicitly trusting the accuracy of reviewers. This is not to be taken lightly.

I love LMG and I hope they can learn from this.