Am5 and Cpu.

[AuditoreEm]

Budget (including currency): up to 700-800e

Country: Serbia Europe

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Red Dead Redemption, Alan Wake 2, Total War Warhammer 3, zBrush, Substance, Mramorset, Adobe Photoshop, Blender. 

 

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): Hello everyone,

I need help regarding the purchase of a processor and motherboard. The budget mentioned in the title is for the mentioned components. Currently, I'm using a Ryzen 7 2700X with an RX 570 8GB graphics card on a B450M D3H motherboard. The specific plan is to transition to the AM5 platform and move from 1080p to 1440p, with a monitor ranging from 100 to 144Hz. After that, I plan to get a graphics card, possibly a 6700XT or stronger, as other options in Serbia are currently expensive.

 

I've considered the Ryzen 7900 and Ryzen 7700 with ASrock B650 pro RS(is that motherboard ok?) . From what I see, the "X" versions are generally faster but consume more power, which doesn't suit my preferences. Am I mistaken? The 7700X seems fine as it appears to have similar power consumption to my current setup. Since the prices for the 7700X and 7900X (7900)are the same in Serbia, which one should I choose? Do they tend to run hot?

 

The 7800X3D isn't appealing to me. Please guide me if I'm mistaken. I work extensively in ZBrush, creating character game-ready models and models for printing, occasionally using Blender, Maya, Substance, etc., mostly 3D software as a hobbyist. When it comes to rendering, it's rare, mainly for presenting finished models, so waiting for rendering isn't preferable. I focus more on turntables, camera movements, and the viewport. Gaming is also important; I mainly play Read Dead Redemption, Total Warhammer, etc. I'd like to run these games and future ones on high settings.

 

I apologize for this lengthy message; my intention is to find a long-term solution and make an informed choice. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[Agall]

24 minutes ago, AuditoreEm said:

Budget (including currency): up to 700-800e

Country: Serbia Europe

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Red Dead Redemption, Alan Wake 2, Total War Warhammer 3, zBrush, Substance, Mramorset, Adobe Photoshop, Blender. 

 

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): Hello everyone,

I need help regarding the purchase of a processor and motherboard. The budget mentioned in the title is for the mentioned components. Currently, I'm using a Ryzen 7 2700X with an RX 570 8GB graphics card on a B450M D3H motherboard. The specific plan is to transition to the AM5 platform and move from 1080p to 1440p, with a monitor ranging from 100 to 144Hz. After that, I plan to get a graphics card, possibly a 6700XT or stronger, as other options in Serbia are currently expensive.

 

I've considered the Ryzen 7900 and Ryzen 7700 with ASrock B650 pro RS(is that motherboard ok?) . From what I see, the "X" versions are generally faster but consume more power, which doesn't suit my preferences. Am I mistaken? The 7700X seems fine as it appears to have similar power consumption to my current setup. Since the prices for the 7700X and 7900X (7900)are the same in Serbia, which one should I choose? Do they tend to run hot?

 

The 7800X3D isn't appealing to me. Please guide me if I'm mistaken. I work extensively in ZBrush, creating character game-ready models and models for printing, occasionally using Blender, Maya, Substance, etc., mostly 3D software as a hobbyist. When it comes to rendering, it's rare, mainly for presenting finished models, so waiting for rendering isn't preferable. I focus more on turntables, camera movements, and the viewport. Gaming is also important; I mainly play Read Dead Redemption, Total Warhammer, etc. I'd like to run these games and future ones on high settings.

 

I apologize for this lengthy message; my intention is to find a long-term solution and make an informed choice. Thank you for your understanding.

 

If 3D v-cache isn't appealing, then I would opt for either a single CCD CPU like the 7600/7700 or a 7950x. When you're gaming on dual CCDs, its possible to get strange latency behaviors when it negotiates between the dies, so outside of not having enough multithreading on a single CCD, and the overall higher boost clocks of the 7950x, its just best to run the 6c or 8c single CCD variants than something like a 7900x.

 

7900x is a weird product since its possible to exceed 6c/12t of Zen4 in some games which'll spill into the second CCD, increasing latency. Those similar applications will generally be fine with 8c/16t though.

[AuditoreEm]

37 minutes ago, Agall said:

If 3D v-cache isn't appealing, then I would opt for either a single CCD CPU like the 7600/7700 or a 7950x. When you're gaming on dual CCDs, its possible to get strange latency behaviors when it negotiates between the dies, so outside of not having enough multithreading on a single CCD, and the overall higher boost clocks of the 7950x, its just best to run the 6c or 8c single CCD variants than something like a 7900x.

 

7900x is a weird product since its possible to exceed 6c/12t of Zen4 in some games which'll spill into the second CCD, increasing latency. Those similar applications will generally be fine with 8c/16t though.

Thank you for answering. I know 3d is excellent for games and particularly in power usage but comparing to 7700 is it good in programs that I include in this topic? Unfortunately 7950x is too expensive in Serbia right now. So 7900x goes off from list. Thanks one more time. 

[Agall]

37 minutes ago, AuditoreEm said:

Thank you for answering. I know 3d is excellent for games and particularly in power usage but comparing to 7700 is it good in programs that I include in this topic? Unfortunately 7950x is too expensive in Serbia right now. So 7900x goes off from list. Thanks one more time. 

Performance per watt is best on 3D v-cache since they have to limit the clock speed but it more than makes up for it with the extra L3 cache, but a 7700 can be just as efficient. AMD architecture, especially in any multiplayer game, really likes that extra 64MB of L3, enough to where I've seen absurd performance advantages running CCD0 (that has 3D v-cache) versus CCD1 (that doesn't) in some applications. I've tested it in Warframe live in a mission using Processor Affinity settings, and the performance difference in one of the most CPU limiting scenario was 160 fps versus 240 fps.

 

For games other than multiplayer games, the advantage isn't as significant. It seems to be related to processes that exceed ~33.5MB of cache, which exceeds the cache a core has available, but doesn't exceed the 97.5MB, that negotiates with a server, that makes the frame time latency more sensitive if it has to go all the way to RAM after negotiating with a server.

 

Personally, I see no reason to not buy a 7800x3D if you're willing to spend enough. I have a 7950x3D since I prefer the extra multicore for various reasons, and I can test a pseudo 7800x3D vs pseudo 7700 on the same CPU. I learned I preferred the extra multicore when I went from a 3950x to 5800x3D.

[AuditoreEm]

2 hours ago, Agall said:

Performance per watt is best on 3D v-cache since they have to limit the clock speed but it more than makes up for it with the extra L3 cache, but a 7700 can be just as efficient. AMD architecture, especially in any multiplayer game, really likes that extra 64MB of L3, enough to where I've seen absurd performance advantages running CCD0 (that has 3D v-cache) versus CCD1 (that doesn't) in some applications. I've tested it in Warframe live in a mission using Processor Affinity settings, and the performance difference in one of the most CPU limiting scenario was 160 fps versus 240 fps.

 

For games other than multiplayer games, the advantage isn't as significant. It seems to be related to processes that exceed ~33.5MB of cache, which exceeds the cache a core has available, but doesn't exceed the 97.5MB, that negotiates with a server, that makes the frame time latency more sensitive if it has to go all the way to RAM after negotiating with a server.

 

Personally, I see no reason to not buy a 7800x3D if you're willing to spend enough. I have a 7950x3D since I prefer the extra multicore for various reasons, and I can test a pseudo 7800x3D vs pseudo 7700 on the same CPU. I learned I preferred the extra multicore when I went from a 3950x to 5800x3D.

I am more single player guy so I think this 7700 will be ok option. 7800x3d is at the same price but on few benchmarks I saw that this cpu does poorly compare to 7700. Not so much but it is better. And can you tell me please is this motherboard b650 pro rs ok for this cpu? 7950x3d ia is the best option but unfortunately too expensive at this moment. Thank you million times. 

[Agall]

59 minutes ago, AuditoreEm said:

I am more single player guy so I think this 7700 will be ok option. 7800x3d is at the same price but on few benchmarks I saw that this cpu does poorly compare to 7700. Not so much but it is better. And can you tell me please is this motherboard b650 pro rs ok for this cpu? 7950x3d ia is the best option but unfortunately too expensive at this moment. Thank you million times. 

B650 boards including that one are sufficient for any AM5 CPU. Its when you get to the A620 series motherboards where it gets iffy.

 

7800x3D overall is better for gaming by a lot, where its lacking compared to an overclockable 7700 is in specific CPU benchmarks like cinebench R23, which doesn't care for the extra cache. In most practical applications, the 7800x3D is markedly better and well worth it for the same price.

 

Even then, the only reason the 7700 can beat the 7800x3D in cinebench R23 is because it can clock higher. The 7800x3D at max is 5.05GHz, but more like 4.9GHz all core. I actually have a thread comparing the two directly using my 7950x3D.

 

In gaming though, the 7800x3D beats the 7700 by quite a lot, even in AAA titles.

[AuditoreEm]

10 hours ago, Agall said:

B650 boards including that one are sufficient for any AM5 CPU. Its when you get to the A620 series motherboards where it gets iffy.

 

7800x3D overall is better for gaming by a lot, where its lacking compared to an overclockable 7700 is in specific CPU benchmarks like cinebench R23, which doesn't care for the extra cache. In most practical applications, the 7800x3D is markedly better and well worth it for the same price.

 

Even then, the only reason the 7700 can beat the 7800x3D in cinebench R23 is because it can clock higher. The 7800x3D at max is 5.05GHz, but more like 4.9GHz all core. I actually have a thread comparing the two directly using my 7950x3D.

 

In gaming though, the 7800x3D beats the 7700 by quite a lot, even in AAA titles.

It's not clear to me why YouTubers mostly depict the results between the 7700 and 7800X3D as quite similar, with significant differences in certain games but nothing noteworthy in Blender rendering and similar tasks, and the 7700 consumes less power and is more efficient. I've also seen the 7950X, which seems to be the most efficient overall, but unfortunately, it's currently priced at 700 euros in Serbia, which is expensive for me right now. Additionally, considering that I'm transitioning to the AM5 platform, do I need to buy a new SSD and hard disk? Currently, I have a Western Digital SATA 3 64MB 3.5" and an SSD Patriot Elite 2.5 SATA 3 with speeds of 450/320MB/s.

[Agall]

6 hours ago, AuditoreEm said:

It's not clear to me why YouTubers mostly depict the results between the 7700 and 7800X3D as quite similar, with significant differences in certain games but nothing noteworthy in Blender rendering and similar tasks, and the 7700 consumes less power and is more efficient. I've also seen the 7950X, which seems to be the most efficient overall, but unfortunately, it's currently priced at 700 euros in Serbia, which is expensive for me right now. Additionally, considering that I'm transitioning to the AM5 platform, do I need to buy a new SSD and hard disk? Currently, I have a Western Digital SATA 3 64MB 3.5" and an SSD Patriot Elite 2.5 SATA 3 with speeds of 450/320MB/s.

I would upgrade to a PCIe SSD either way, but you don't absolutely have to. You could easily plug in your current drive (with encyrption/bitlocker disabled) and WIndows will figure it out. I've done it nearly 100 times myself with dramatically different hardware without failure. Sometimes UEFI settings around Secure Boot and CSM need to be adjusted, but most likely not in your case.

 

You'll have to point to a source, in no way are the 7700 and 7800x3D quite similar in gaming.

 

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review - The Best Gaming CPU - Performance Summary & Performance per Dollar | TechPowerUp

 

And this is only in a suite of academic like benchmarks, where the difference is even more dramatic in anything that's negotiating to a server. 

 

It doesn't make the R7 7700 a bad or useless product, but if they're the same price and your primary use is gaming, its a no-brainer.

[AuditoreEm]

19 minutes ago, Agall said:

I would upgrade to a PCIe SSD either way, but you don't absolutely have to. You could easily plug in your current drive (with encyrption/bitlocker disabled) and WIndows will figure it out. I've done it nearly 100 times myself with dramatically different hardware without failure. Sometimes UEFI settings around Secure Boot and CSM need to be adjusted, but most likely not in your case.

 

You'll have to point to a source, in no way are the 7700 and 7800x3D quite similar in gaming.

 

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review - The Best Gaming CPU - Performance Summary & Performance per Dollar | TechPowerUp

 

And this is only in a suite of academic like benchmarks, where the difference is even more dramatic in anything that's negotiating to a server. 

 

It doesn't make the R7 7700 a bad or useless product, but if they're the same price and your primary use is gaming, its a no-brainer.

Thank you for that. Sorry I didn't tell you that I was thinking about work in applications like blender or zbrush like I mentioned in the beginning. But I understand. 

[Agall]

2 hours ago, AuditoreEm said:

Thank you for that. Sorry I didn't tell you that I was thinking about work in applications like blender or zbrush like I mentioned in the beginning. But I understand. 

I got a hint of that earlier, but it still depends on the focus. The difference in professional application performance between the 7700 and 7800x3D I don't think is worth the loss in smoothness and performance in games. Assuming those applications respond primarily to clock speed and not an increase in cache, which some do.

 

I won't try to sell you specifically on the 7800x3D, but just looking at it objectively, if you had to choose between the two at the same price with gaming in mind, the 7800x3D is better in more than just average framerate. This is coming from someone who effectively has both and tests it regularly with my 7950x3D. Past that, you're better off looking at the R9 variants or even Intel to get better productivity performance. Optimum Tech is an example of someone who does heavy productivity work but opted for a lower core variant and accepts the slightly longer times than dealing with the complexities of a multi CCD Ryzen CPU.

 

Most of the time, something like a 7700x will beat the 7900x in gaming because of the single CCD layout. The 7950x wins out compared to the 7700x because of its higher clocks and that it can run off a single CCD and park the other one to prevent the latency issues you can get while negotiating across the infinity fabric. 7800x3D is just a 3D v-cache version.

 

To really boil it down, if you're unable to go with a 7950x due to price and don't need the best gaming performance with the 7800x3D, you might be best off looking at Intel which strikes a better compromise between the two. Something like then 13700k/14700k depending on pricing.