ReanimationXP

As others pointed out, there are fixes for such things. The means of access to those accounts isn't controlled solely by one company or piece of software, with DRM in the mix. Other browsers could be used. The OS could be patched by third parties to add needed ciphers. I've done as much on both old Windows and Mac systems. Entire channels are dedicated to getting new things running on old OS's and hardware.. that's part of the fun for retro computing enthusiasts like me, and yes there are lots of us. I often have more fun getting new things working on old systems, or old things working on new systems than playing the game itself.. but with something like Steam you don't have a lot of options. Stripping the DRM would be one option if such a tool exists and works universally, but that doesn't solve the problem of obtaining it in the first place. The easy answer is "piracy", but just like the Sony debacle going on, both they and Valve should be obligated to provide what was paid for, whatever that manner might be.

I'd be interested to see what you did here. If it truly doesn't update on install then that would help with one part of the problem.. now we'd just be waiting to see if and when logging in with it breaks. But here it begins, trusting a stranger on the internet to give you an old copy of Steam.. lol.

The developer shutting down a game is a different story. It's always possible someone might spin up a private server that emulates the official one, and at that point you might need to download your game again, so of course they wouldn't delete it unless the dev asked them to or something. If it is impossible to download or run a game due to OS's the DRM supports, there would be no sense in it being around. Even if you could download it, it can't launch. I'm not saying it's currently a problem, but it makes sense that it might be in the future, and I suggest we get out ahead of it.

I don't know what hoops you had to jump through to achieve this, but it wasn't just compatibility mode. I specifically had to create a Win 7 VM to run Diablo 1, my copy, years ago when I upgraded to 10. Things these games rely on, like Intel Indio and DirectDraw, will become outdated and no longer run on modern versions of Windows.. so even if the game is supported, the frameworks it's written on, at some point, will not be. It's the perfect example of a game that will only run on Win 7, and is the reason entire projects like DevilutionX exist to rewrite it. Pretty much every single one of you who have posted an argument against this don't understand a fundamental part of what's wrong, probably because you either didn't read or don't understand the basics of steam installation and DRM, and I don't have the energy to correct all of you. Emulation is not a solution if you cannot get the game in the first place because you can't install the client. For any DRM'd games, installed or not, if the client doesn't run, the DRM doesn't either. You cannot install Steam on an unsupported platform if the first thing it does is update. Sure you can install an "old version" from some sketchy site, maybe that has been patched to not update or something, but then how do you know it's Steam and not just a credential harvester? There's no way to tell without being a malware reverse engineer. No one has accused Valve of removing access to games, at least not yet. If they did, I'm sure it wouldn't be "malicious". I said it demonstrates a lack of care, and a breach of trust. You could argue it is negligent. It also opens the doors to more happening. If you can't install or update, and at some point can't even log into Steam on a particular OS, and a game only supports up to that OS, and you can only download the game on the Steam client, what motivation is there for Valve to not free up some server space and delete them all? Under any normal circumstance, you literally can't download it at that point, so why would they keep it around? Valve owns the safe that something you bought lives in, and they're taking away the key, or at least aren't giving you a new one when it breaks, when their responsibility and the trust relationship there is that if you paid for access to the key, they provide it. You might still "own" it on paper, but if you can't get at it then they've stolen from you! Intentional or not. As I stated in the opening, macOS users have it the worst. You may have to buy a machine built within the last 7 years to even be able to access what you paid for. That isn't Valve's fault, but should be taken into consideration. Making things available on SteamCMD without a GUI would not be hard. It makes no use of Chromium. Sauron seems to be one of the only ones here who actually gets the full picture. Appreciate you fighting the good fight. I don't know why so many people are so complacent.. even HAPPY to let mega corps take away their paid property. This is why Louis Rossman rightly says piracy is justified. His latest video about Sony doing this echos EXACTLY this situation. Exactly. With one small caveat. We still need a way to download, and if the DRM is still there, it needs to work. Whether that's the full version of the client, or some back-asswards way like SteamCMD with no GUI, I don't care. If I have to drive to the next town to get a new copy of my safe key.. at least Valve is still honoring their promise of giving me access for life.

Finally some valid questions. Yes if the DRM was removed you could download it from either an up to date PC or something like SteamCMD which allows you to log in. There are safe ways to connect old PCs to the internet. I don't think the onus should be on developers. Some companies will be long broken up, and/or definitely not maintaining Steam packages anymore. If there are tools to universally strip Steam DRM off that's news to me, but good to know. As far as I know that would be legal so long as you purchased it, but again assumes you can actually get it. The only potential issue I see with removing the DRM is if the developer does happen to still be around and takes issue with it, which I think is unlikely for old games. In this instance, just ensure SteamCMD works for legacy machines, and provide a hooking mechanism for it such that launched games can utilize SteamCMD to check the DRM rather than the full client. Boom, done.

Several of you replying make my head hurt, I'm not arguing anymore. All the details are already here. I tell you you won't be able to install the client and access your library on older machines, and I get comments like retro games [in a thread talking about downloading them from steam], "don't require a retro OS".. lmao.. and the games you can't download because you can't get a functioning client is fine because they might still be in your library. Ok.

Not immediately, but Steam does not make old versions available and tries to update before you're even given the ability to log in. If anything happens to your install or you get a new retro PC, you'd have to trust some sketchy download backed up from someone else or something. I would also bet within a couple years they will make a change which breaks logging in somehow, at which point you won't be able to launch anything. Certain games may work in offline mode if you're lucky, assuming you had logged in before on said PC. Eventually Win 7 and older games would be purged, as they have no incentive to keep them around taking up space. It's better to get out ahead of this change and insist they remain available than to try and claw back what you purchased down the line.

lol, and how do you propose you install steam on Win 7, when it updates on first launch, several years down the line there sparky? If Steam has completely dropped support for Win 7 and earlier, why would they bother keeping games around that only run on those platforms? To waste server space for no reason? The logical next step is they disappear at some point. The only "neckbeard" activity going on here is saying this is fine. If you don't care then kick rocks. No one has suggested Valve is supposed to update the games, if you actually read the post. Yet another strawman. ..and yet your "small" all Linux number contains anyone who has ever bought a Steam Deck, which are pretty popular now aren't they? As I stated previously, retro gaming is a thing, and isn't going to be a machine you're logging into every day on, running Steam surveys. There's a good chance it's offline most if not all of the time.

I never said they weren't. You said "A Windows 10 build from 5+ years ago would also not support a lot of things." In relation to Steam and games, this is either largely or completely false. I'm unaware of any examples, and regardless it doesn't matter. Steam will still run on vanilla day one Windows 10. Bottom line is Valve should be obligated to provide a path for legacy users to get at their stuff, and I can't fathom why you would argue to have less access to stuff you've purchased. They either fix it or they don't, don't give them excuses not to. It's not fully elective, their reasoning is to upgrade to a newer version of the underlying Chrome / Chromium backend they built modern Steam on, which would require Win10 (allegedly - not sure I buy this but will give them the benefit of the doubt). My issue is they're not doing anything to address the problems that will cause, which could be handled in one of a few ways, without excessive effort.

Windows 10 was released in 2015, over 8 years ago, and is still widely in use. You'd be hard-pressed to find a game which runs on Windows 10 now that didn't then; I'm not aware of any and I play a lot of titles both old and new. This is patently false. ..hasn't been sold in two decades, and used doesn't always solve the problem. The internet's been around a long time. Installing may require things like online activation with an already-used CD-Key or long-defunct activation service. Not a solution. Nor should you have to re-buy games you already own. Also, I'm not sure why y'all are in such a hurry to try and "disprove" me, even if you were able to. There's nothing "good" or to gain from this. The point is this sets a bad precedent and the act of effectively locking people out of things they paid for is completely unnecessary for the reasons I gave. Some of us specifically buy games on PC, not consoles, to avoid having to deal with things like planned obsolescence, and abuse from those who publish and sell our games from also having a vested interest in getting us to buy new hardware every few years. That situation is ripe for abuse and often is abused. Old console stores are routinely closed down. Until now, digital distribution platforms like Steam have largely been immune to these things - almost everything you could ever access on Steam is still accessible. Precedent matters, and you should retain access to the things you own.

Way to strawman and ignore oodles of rationale as to why this is an issue, and the solution I proposed. It's not about the fact that OS's aren't supported forever. It's about having no way to install something you paid for. Retro computing is a thing.

Summary Steam is dropping support for Windows 7 on Jan 1st of 2024, as well as macOS Mohave and older on February 15th, 2024, putting access to games you have purchased in jeopardy, particularly older games which run only on these older OS's. Since steam auto-updates on launch, this implies you may no longer be able to install new copies of Steam on these OS's as of these dates, meaning you would have no way to download and install the games in your library anymore. While transferring from another newer computer might be an option, if the OS it is too new, installation may not be allowed, may fail to install, etc. This change will also likely affect games which are already installed, and may prohibit them from launching. Since Steam regularly updates itself on launch, and games rely on Steam DRM, this means the Steam client must be working and logged in (in most cases) in order to launch. Thus if it does not, this update may lock you out of all installed apps, both old and new. Steam does not offer any official way to downgrade or download older versions of Steam. This will affect retro computing enthusiasts and macOS users the most. I propose some solutions below Valve could use to allow users to retain access to their library without significant effort. Quotes My thoughts I have combined the contents of both announcements into one in my quote, based largely on the macOS announcement. I found this announcement in two places, both of which are overly hard to find, almost intentionally so it would seem. Only by browsing and thoroughly reading Steam client updates did I notice the macOS sunsetting, hidden at the bottom of a long list of boring client updates (linked below). I also happened to see the Windows sunsetting article on a Steam discussions post from a user, which I only happened to read because I was already troubleshooting an issue with the client. This move demonstrates a lack of care and doesn't make sense to me considering SteamCMD is a Steam commandline client which is able to download tools like dedicated server apps from the Steam network, sometimes without so much as logging in, and sometimes (seemingly) without any DRM attached. Regardless of the Steam UI OS requirements, older games are still something you have purchased, and something Valve may be contractually obligated to provide you access to. Since Valve DRMs games, and also does not patch them to provide support on forward OS's as companies like GOG sometimes do, Valve in some cases would effectively lock customers out of their purchased licenses, even the latest up to date titles, simply because they chose to build their clients on aging browser technology rather than being true native apps. Something else to consider - devs may have intentionally put significant effort into providing support for older OS's, even on new games. On the macOS side of things, this move, combined with how Apple handles OS updates - specifically that they deny any machines 7 years old or later from installing the latest OS, may mean you are forced to buy a new computer entirely to access your games, and even then may have to emulate the older OS in order for it to run, depending on the title. Applying this to another sector - imagine if you could no longer access your bank account or your stocks unless you purchased a new Mac at minimum every 7 years, and even then, possibly had to spin up a VM to do so. In my opinion, Valve should be morally (and possibly legally) obligated to provide a path forward for those who have purchased a game, by either providing a way for DRM to continue to work on older platforms through something like SteamCMD, or removing the Steam DRM from them and allowing them to launch without it on older platforms - especially if previously installed. They should also provide a way forward to download and reinstall them on older platforms, even if that means using a commandline tool such as SteamCMD rather than a nice UI frontend. Apparently some in the Steam forums have already talked to lawyers about potential lawsuits, but were told announcements like this don't constitute a lockout - in other words, they'd have to be able to demonstrate an inability to access and play their games before legal action could be taken. This seems incorrect to me, as addressing the issue beforehand would potentially avoid uncorrectable or expensive action on Valve's part (deleting old source code for example), but I'm not a lawyer. I may send this to LegalEagle as well to see if he might weigh in with his take. I'm curious how situations like this work legally - especially if Valve has provided themselves a way out in the ToS somehow. I know that, unlike other companies, I vary rarely if ever have to click Accept to Valve's TOS except upon initial install, meaning I may not have agreed to or seen it in over a decade. Other companies like Apple make you accept a new one damn year every time you launch iTunes. I'd like to see Linus and/or Louis Rossman cover this so we could get some eyes on it and maybe get Valve to improve the situation. Sources Valve's Windows 7 Sunset Announcement (couldn't find it linked anywhere outside of the forum): https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4784-4F2B-1321-800A Forum post where I heard about the Windows 7 announcement: https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/4031347296569734477 Valve's macOS Mohave Sunset Announcement (found via the next link): https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/743F-2E0E-C9A5-C375 Steam Update where the macOS Mohave sunset is mentioned: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/593110/view/3895113407856183761 Edited 12/3 - Updated summary to further clarify some of the implications of these changes.

Bumping for prosperity?

Updated, added links I left out and some pics for attn lol

Yeah, I know I'm asking a lot - why I'm here Hoping there's a diamond in the rough somewhere, particularly for the case.