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Samputio

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About Samputio

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    Newbie

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    England, London

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  1. I agree with this conclusion. Advantages/disadvantages towards different paths. Different strokes for different folks.
  2. What is the alternative route? Do you know of any less expensive but still reputable certs that a young person can get to kick start their career? What path do you recommend to someone who knows for sure that university isn't for them? I ask this question in terms of "How do I get a foot in?" rather than "How do I work as a programmer at a finance firm?". I'm not looking for an impressive job or salary, I'm just looking for an alternative to university.
  3. That's an interesting sentiment because I hear the current train of thought being the opposite, that higher education is failing to teach the students the skills they need for their intended work place, and that they are becoming less necessary as a result. But you are the one who's in the thick of it, so your input holds weight, so I don't know what to believe now. What do you think about the common statement "I learned more in 6 months on the job then I did in 4 years of school"? It's quite a damning statement when you consider the length and cost of higher education. A lengthy (and often expensive) course seems to only hold value as a door opener, and little more. Why is the default path towards university when instead an apprenticeship would be magnitudes more valuable to the individual as well as the employer? Perhaps an explanation towards the split we're seeing in this thread is a dissonance in how we're all defining "higher education"...
  4. None of the skills you listed, including writing good code, is dependent on if a person has a degree. It makes sense that a top 100 company would prioritise degrees for the sole purpose of saving resources, because those who have finished a degree have gone through a defacto filter, I get that part. Does a completed computer science degree come even half way close to guaranteeing a person will come away with the ability to write good code and to hit those requirements you've listed? By most accounts, the answer is a big no. I have seen this sentiment from @vorticalbox more than I have seen its counterpart. I don't understand how someone can think of going into a programming field of any kind without daily experience with the things you listed @Brenz, it's contradictory how it all hinges on having a degree which in itself doesn't seem to do a good job at actually instilling the very practices you've laid out. Of course, I'm not pointing out contradiction in your comment, it's the way the industry is currently shaped that is contradictory. High quality, free, open source education is on the rise and eventually employers will find themselves dipping into the pool. If I was an employer I'd be keeping a more watchful eye on on that space.
  5. This is a common thought in the thread, but isn't it true that a person without a degree who has a trail of projects that were built from hours of independent, self guided, self disciplined study is at minimum equal in terms of skill and arguable more impressive than the college grad? I understand that the job requirements by default require a degree and it's presented in this thread as though it's set in stone. For this to be true, there'd have to be swathes of self educated programmers whose talent is going unused and ignored by companies. This doesn't seem likely to me. I'm appreciating the advice about getting certs/degrees without worrying about top tier institutions and just focusing on getting the paper as a door opener or stop gap regardless of where it comes from (within reason of course). And to clarify, I should have added it into my OP, but I'm not speaking about high end cutting edge development, I'm aiming for junior dev level work whereby I can continue to learn and work upwards. Good back and forth between both camps though.
  6. If I build a small but robust portfolio of projects that I'm able to explain from the top down, that would prove that I can take concepts, break them down, and then build them out into tangible real world tools. I would think this is 80% of the requirements for a junior dev, so then how about these points -> and If I can build and explain my process isn't that all that's necessary?
  7. Considering the fact that demand for programmers are high, what level or proficiency does a self learner have to reach until they can begin applying for jobs as a programmer?
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