AmyThePersonThing

to get perfect frame-times. and I want my game to be smoother. just like it is on my switch. I mean I can tell my PC is running at a higher refresh rate but it isn't as natural or smoother as my switch.

Thanks ^~^ I wish we had like more of a frame pracing setting on PC. it seems like there's no focus on that on the PC side. mostly frame rates etc! On my iPhone and within the Windows GUI there's zero input latency, everything is tear free and is super smooth. I wonder why the same can't be done with games.

Apparently I wasn't crazy. I did some research and all and also made a thread. at the perfect case the frame pacing isn't perfect. at 30fps it goes Bonkers. but at 45+ it starts to work. but even then it's not technically fully perfect

not just that but your frame rate needs to be at least the same or higher than your refresh rate too! also RTS in my opinion really helps makes things feel nicer! the frame pacing is more even but not perfect still. wish we hard a hardware level or a low level frame pacing option!

So I randomly realized that my switch is smoother than my PC which is weird. even 30fps feels so "soft" and "natural" eh... for the past 3 days (obviously not 24/7) I tried a ton of settings and read a lot and researched. I never could reach the same smoothness on 30fps but I managed to find out how to get the SMOOTHEST experience. Sorry again I just thought I'd share, I thought "what's the worst case they'll downvote or tell me it's stupid or wrong!" Some fun info: Framerate isn't the whole story. what matters a lot (They both matter obviously) is frame-time and frame pacing. it means how much it takes before a frame is shown relative to each other. for example at 60fps I think it takes 16.6~ms to show each frame. a frame is shown every 16.6ms. in an ideal word and for the ideal experience on a 60hz monitor they're given to the monitor the exact second they want to draw and the same happens at every refresh cycle. like the monitor and graphics card are in sync. for 30fps the frame only is changed every 2 cycles of the monitor which is called "half-sync" also keep in mind monitor refresh rates are usually numbers like 59.996hz rounded to 60hz for ease! Most movies AFAIK are recorded at 27-30fps, the reason they're so smooth is that specially on a camera every frame is just played after the exactly same amount of time. there's no variation between how long each frame takes to display! also triple buffering doesn't add any latency. It's actually supposed to reduce it. the frames AFAIK aren't in a queue. there are 2 back frames and 1 front. instead of swapping back and front the 2 back frames are swapped. the monitor AFAIK just picks the one that isn't being written to. in dual buffer V-Sync the graphics card has to wait to render a new frame. but I'm not sure if the triple buffering we see in the settings menu is the same. So there are a few different things you can do without a FreeSync/G-sync monitor. Keep in mind motion blurr helps with all of them since it can mask jitters or low frame rate! Possible options: V-Sync On, Framerate almost never going under your refresh rate. set your monitor's refresh rate to the min framerate like that. (for some reason this works a lot better for me in borderless): Advantages: Smooth AF, The smoothest I could get it to be. at 60fps it's as smooth as it can "almost" get. basically like my switch running a 60fps game. and the latency is very hard to tell with a controller (almost can't tell?). the frame spacing was "almost" perfect. still saw some spikes. Disadvantages: Latency. for me it wasn't that high but it's pretty annoying in FPS games. though at 100fps~ the latency gets far less and is tolerable for an FPS shooter like this. but I mean for a game like Dishonored or Prey I doubt this matters that much you know? V-Sync Off, in game Limiter (OW and CS) on: Advantages: low latency Disadvantages: Feels and is absolutely terrible. the frame times all over the place and never the same. and I don't think frames are in sync with the monitor. Any sort of Sync Off: Advantages**:** Very Low Latency. Disadvantages: Tearing in Fullscreen, and jittery and not smooth overall. but not bad. specially if your framerate is way over the refresh rate TBH. V-Sync On, RTSS set to your refresh rate: Not good. it's basically like V-sync but with extra jitters and all. V-Sync Off, RTSS Set to your Min Framerate (or if you don't mind the 1% lowest or something): Advantages: Almost no lag. Smooth even though it's a tiny bit less smooth than V-sync (my suspicion is backed up by checking the frame-times) Disadvantages: Tearing on Fullscreen (apparently windows has some sort of nice sync built into it's windows so that's why borderless helps) and not as smooth as V-Sync but nice enough. if you have a Freesync monitor it helps a lot IMO with non limited refresh rates. it's playable and nice but still feels.. different. it's like it's not "soft" but If you have one you have the "perfect" option IMO: FreeSync On, FPS Limited by RTSS: well its almost perfect. still not technically as smooth as v-sync but it's not very notable. almost no latency either. no tearing cause Freesync . I saw frame pacing issues still but somehow Freesync made it nicer! Note: High framerates not only are cooler but make tearing and frame-pacing issues less apparent, they also make things less blurry! 100Hz is a good place IMO and after that there is a difference but less significant than 60-75 and 75-90 etc. I really hope we will soon have something like 90hz as standard on most screens and specially phones since they have animations that include sliding fading etc. also we use them with our fingers so it makes me more awesome! I really hope we can get perfect frame pacing on PCs cause in game limiters aren't good and rtss isn't awesome. my guess is it's because it's a software like this and not a driver or low level stuff (maybe we if it was integrated into the GPU?) I really hope you guys like this I spent a lot of time writing it and I hope it's not wrong or allowed. keep in mind i"m just a gamer like you who is very curious and wanted the smoothest possible experience (cause it was shocking how my cheap not so powerful switch felt nicer)! EDIT: huh this is intresting https://www.blurbusters.com/howto-low-lag-vsync-on/ it says with RTSS you can do change the Frame rate limit to really precise numbers by editing files and get low latency V-Sync. I am honestly exhausted to try it but maybe give it a try!

sometimes my GPU drops down to 50 degrees in overwatch. but that's only sometimes. and decreasing render scale does nothing too. I don't have enough money to buy a new CPU + motherboard so I have to deal with it. I do have a laptop which I don't like. but I just use that for serious work so I don't lose data and use this for regular work. although my laptop has been sent to warranty for like a month ?

Update: prey is a lot better at 30fps and 30hz. I think this was the issue! not as smooth as the switch but much nicer. Oh I'm more curious. also witcher at maximum runs at 30! but I'm just trying to understand why. and wondering if I can apply the same logic to 60 to make it even better! but I think with prey it's nice! I have an i5-3570K and an rx480. Tho my PC crashes everynow and then. I think there's something wrong with my motherboard + CPU. It's not even bluescreens just the sound going like "vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" and nothing not even the power button working.

ok weird. the images instantly appear on the switch while on my PC they are drawn in a line way. like my PC kinda blinks and has lines in it. only sometimes and barely visible I'm comparing side by side tho. and how does it not feel bad when I switch from my normal 120fps overwatch to 30fps zelda :? and only feels bad going from 30fps zelda to 30fps overwatch or other games (feels less bad in dishonored which is slow phased) I think Mira Yurizaki was actually right. it makes sense. PCs do so much more at the background. there's discord etc. maybe if there was a game we had that you installed like a OS it would work like that I really don't mind it tbh I was just really curious!

the difference is really HUGE so I doubt that! I never took a slow motion video of my switch' lemme try that right now!

Awww. so there's no way? I guess I have to lower my settings. I remember people were always like "BUT PC HAS 60FPS" and blah blah but honestly console feels nicer even with a lower fps. it's just smooth! though I still would stick to my PC cause I love PC games more. Hopefully we'll get more features or something that'll give us consistent frame rates in the future like how we now have freesync etc! the lowest I see is 60 ;c ok the cutom refresh rate setting made it a lot smoother IMO. I've only tried overwatch tho. it's not as smooth as zelda but at this point it could be the settings. I'm gonna install prey again and try it with motion blurr!

I tried it on my monitor. still not the same. also tried a controller on my PC. still not the same.

I have an AMD graphics card! I see no such an option!

So I spent the whole day messing around with settings. I never had a console before and when I bought my Nintendo Switch I was shocked at how smooth breath of the wild was at 30fps. almost hard to believe tbh. So I googled and came to the realization that the reason over watch or any other game I have on PC looks so horribly at 30fps compared to zelda is frame times? so when I look around and move around on zelda stuff just get's a little blurry. in PC games "even with motion blurr" it's just a headachy awful mess at 30fps that I can't tolerate. everything is so choppy. even a simple moving forward. while shield surfing is super fluid on my switch. I have a FreeSync Monitor BTW. 0-144hz since it has low frame rate comprehension (I think?! BenQ XL2730Z the original range is 40-140, I love this monitor so much. amazing quality for a TN) so I Tried doing a few things: V-Sync On and off minimum settings outputting 140 FPS and then locking the FPS to 30 trough either the game itself or RTSS. turning FreeSync off and on on every scenario. using a controller because mouse shows frame drops and low frame rate more. triple buffering on and off setting my monitor's refresh rate to 60 instead of 144. playing at 100-120fps with freesync on v-sync off at 144. it feels absolutely amazing tbh! obviously a ton better than the switch too! the smoothness just rocks! so far I found out that the smoothest possibility for 60fps and less is setting my monitor to 60hz and turning on V-sync. it added a little bit of input lag but I'm sure in a game like zelda that wouldn't be obvious to me. but it's still just... Not the same. but 60fps on 144hz (without freesync ) looks worse for some reason to me than 60fps on 60hz (freesync turns of when I set it to 60hz). I mean on my switch everything feels... natural.... Hard to explain. it doesn't feel like a digital game moving around with frame it feels kinda smooth and seamless like a movie you know? Am I missing something? Do Developers not care (or can't) do the Same on a PC? to have exactly the same frame time every frame (zelda sometimes looks like a game boy on really crowded and hard to render areas on portable mode I mean) also why don't they all suffer from tearing? in splatoon 2 I feel no delay with motion controls (kinda like a mouse tbh so it removes the controller argument) and have no tearing? I doubt my TV or the switch's display have freesync! why does the 60-30fps look so much better on my switch? please I just wanna sleep (JK :P) Sorry for the long post I'm a really curious person and can't get this off my mind! the games I tried have been prey overwatch and dishonored death of the outsider since I don't have anything else installed. death of the outsider is slow paced if you play stealth so I guess it's the best comparison. conclusions from a day of testing and taking slow motion videos of my monitor: FreeSync is awesome. best money I've ever spent 144hz is smoooth I really need sleep and a hobby (other than gaming ofc)

Thanks a lot I've also been thinking of ux330! or maybe 430! I'll have to see the prices then! but right now i'm in love with the spectre

The spectre x360 sounds pretty good! should I buy it? I'll need a dongle for HDMI but meh! This is mostly a confimartion. cause I'm not sure if there are issues with it or anything. I mean after googling I found a few people complaining

I couldn't get that to open up but googling the model It sounds nice! the model number of what I'm talking about is HP Spectre X360 13-W013dx. the reviews say it's very hot and a lot of people have had their unit burned 0_0

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ZenBook-Flip-UX360UAK-BB351T-Convertible-Review.198302.0.html the display sounds bad! it flickers and has a low response time :C response time being less important! Any other suggestions?

really?! why! I Do have a powerful PC at home! Do keep in mind it's electronics Engineering and not mechanics etc!

I'm going to start university soon. I'll need a laptop. I'm going to study electronics Engineering. I have a pretty powerful PC at home (RX 480 - 3570k - 8GB RAM) and a nice 27" monitor (2560x1440) I'm a big wuss and Can't handle much weight. I also prefer it to be portable! and also cheap. I also can't stand a bad panel It has to be IPS too! (my monitor is TN but it's always at the perfect angel) also it has to be 1080p+ and Have a good battery life. My obvious choice is Dell XPS 15. but I can't seem to find it anywhere in my country. I only found Dell xps 13 for a reallllyyy high price (4k panel and everything, the cheapest one wa 1800$, 2600$ the most expensive one) These are my choices right now: 1. Lenovo Yoga 900 (13 Inch - 3200x1800 IPS - 6500U) 1348$ 2. Asus Zenbook Flip UX360UA - 1095$ ( 7200U - WQHD IPS! ) This one seems to good to be true considering the price... 1.2kg! 3. ASUS ZenBook UX430UA the same price?! 4. Macbook pro 13" the base model with 128gb 1450$ (Wow this thing has a gorgeous display! wow... the keyboard is frigging horrible, the build quality made me cry, but for some reason it feels reallyyy heavy! I mean it's only 1.2kg but I swear it felt like 3kg on the apple store, Light enough anyway. also OVERPRICED! but in my country it kinda makes more sense than dell xps ) thanks all for your time <3

Well not pirating the windows and installing it today fixed it ^_^. Not even the slightest stutter nor problems with freeSync yaaaay! well atleast for now. my PC is so much faster. but it's so hard not to priate I have to stay clean... I Wanted to give mass effect adorma a try but now that I can't pirate it first and give it a try to see if it's wroth buying... and wow windows is annoying. and there's ads now....? and the stupid pointer precision at first made me cry... until I realized it was on...

the freesync is still on at 60hz I ended every task that was not essential and not window or amd's task. it didn't happen again. I"m re-installing windows :c it's definitely a program causing this to happen. I have a lot of weird apps on my PC(random drivers for crappy bluetooth dongles, programs like pingzapper and speedify or hotspotshield that probably are viruses my windows is fake too :c But I hope that doesn't cause probelms. I will probably buy an original copy of the new version of windows when it comes out. I only use windows for gaming anyway ;c I have to download and install android studio-visual studio all over again it was so much trouble

Hmmm the issue you said is different than mine. it actually doesn't happen on DOOM and world of warcraft if I"m correct(wow and CS:GO are the only mentioned games there and I don't even have CS:GO) I tired setting my Monitor's refresh rate to 60hz and it doesn't happen.

144hz monitors are a world of difference, yet They give you no advantage at winning(at least for me!) It's mostly about a more fluid and enjoyable experience than an advantage. take in mind that even with my RX 480 8GB I get 90-120fps in Overwatch at mostly high (expect shadows and some other stuff) at 2560x1440. it's not easy to get 144fps. but anything above 90fps is good enough. the diffrence from 90-144fps for me is definitely noticeable. even 120-144 is. but it's not that much of a difference to spend anything more than 50$ or turn down graphics settings for in my opinion. The game also looks more realistic :C? weird I know but at higher fps my game feels more realistic! but I'm not sure if my new monitor is good or it's freeSync but I have no problems playing battlefield 1's campaign at 50fps it's smooth as hell. there IPS panels that are 144hz if you have the money though. I personally if went back into time wouldn't bother with 144hz, why? well because it's like "WOW" for a month after that you're forced to buy 100hz+ monitors because even 75fps feels choppy now also other than super crappy view distances there are a few TN panels that are very good. TN panels are stigmatized but a lot of decent ones are good enough! You can view theTechChaps on ips vs tn. he compared PG278Q to PG279Q, (1144hz TN vs 160hz IPS)

Hi. I have an XL2730z and an RX 480 (8gb asus strix OC) Every game I tried(Overwatch/Heroes of the storm/ Dishonored 2 etc) and VLC Player(Tried a 4k video and a 480p video, both lagged in similar pattern, I tried an 1080p60fps video too) stuttered. the screen freezes for about a second every 2 seconds. my cursor stops with the screen too. This only happens in Borderless Windowed mode If I'm playing games (obviously not in VLC because it's near 50 degrees all the time) my Temps drop low when this happen then go back up. my temp curve looks like a bunch of "A"s !. everything is fine onFullscreen (not borderless) and it doesn't lag. I one day saw my monitor turned off by itself and when I logged back in and turned my monitor on I saw a message saying "AMD drivers crashed resting to previous settings". I opened every app I had and tried it on borderless! no more stutters! but that only lasted for a day. today I have the same problems. but I have to mention that during the time it was fixed my freeSync had issues, if it was on my screen looked choppy and kept blinking or flickering(it kept getting dim and bright like it was flickering (like a lightbulb when the power is bad)). but that was fixed buy restarting my motor (turning it off and on again without unplugging it). but as soon as I alt-tabbed it would do the same again. when I alt tab it goes smooth for 2 seconds, screen freezes and starts flickering but working again. as I said non of this happens without freesync but the screen looks full of tearing :c Things I've already tried: Turning off freesync: did nothing Setting the fans to 100% so it stays cool: no difference other than hurting my ears. Unplugging my monitor, pressing power button then I hear the sound windows makes when a device is unplugged and see everything go into my secondary monitor, plugging it back and turning it on again: This fixed the issue only for a while. as soon as I open another video or something or quit Fullscreen it starts doing it again. Turning on Blur Reduction Mode: It works doesn't happen anymore. But I don't want to use BRM all the time ;c Using DDU to re-install drivers several time and updating to the latest: Didn't work :c i tired VLC without the drivers however and it didn't work! I don't think i can do a fresh install. I mean I obviously can but I have to pay around 30$ for my internet connection to re-download everything. some stuff like my visual studio can't be backed up easily. it took me a lot of effort to get android studio working so I rather not do that :c PS: I posted this on reddit but marked it as solved yesterday thinking it's fixed forever. but as i said after the driver crash (yesterday) it started doing it again. EDIT: once i click on my second monitor the video plays fine. haven't tried this with games but I assume the same happens. so the stuttering only happens when I'm focused on the window that is borderless Also setting the refresh rate to 60hz fixes the issue 0_0 it still happens on 100-120-144hz

ok then! today is the day I buy it.... in a few hours I hope I won't regret my monitor choice :c`