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Is my CPU degrading?

Vasllo
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My i7 2600k used to run at 4.5GHz with 1.34v fine, but after I messed around at 4.7GHz with 1.4-1.5v for an hour or so, I would get some instability, so I gave it +5mV and it worked fine, but now I'm getting some BSODs again, first when playing and now when I was just browsing. Is my CPU degrading? I'm running high LLC with -0.005v offset, running at 1.35v (1.344-1.36v), I would guess this is a pretty damn safe voltage, but this is starting to worry me, I want this CPU to live a couple years at least, if this keeps going at this rate, I'll have to drop my 4.5GHz OC, which I wouldn't like to. The smallest step I can give it now is +10mV, which would start taking me to an uncomfortable voltage.

 

Any ideas? My setup is in my signature, and I have most of my settings on Auto, just messed with CPU PLL trying to lower it, but gave me more instability.

CPU: i7 2600K 4.4GHz@1.3V | Motherboard: Asus P8P67 Pro | CPU Cooler: CoolerMaster Hyper 212x | RAM: Corsair Vengeance 4x4GB @1600MHz CL9

GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1070 Ti G1 Gaming @2GHz | Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + Seagate Barracuda 2TB  | PSU: Corsair TX550M | Monitor: LG 29UM69G

Keyboard: Corsair K70 LUX MX Red | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB | Case: Corsair Carbide 400C | Headphone: Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro | Microphone: Blusmart Lapel

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1.35 may have been safe, but 1.4-1.5 certainly wasn't. A constantly overclocked CPU will, over time, require more voltage to keep the same overclock. Seems you... accelerated that process. 

 

Not to mention doing all of that on a hyper 212? No way you were at safe temps when stress testing. 

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That's a lot of voltage.....

This is a 2600k not an 8700K.

You're just killing it faster.

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Never go above 1.4v

My PC:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600X Processor (4.4Ghz), MOBO: GIGABYTE X470 AORUS Gaming 7 WiFi (AMD Ryzen AM4/ X470/ Intel Wave 2 WiFi/M.2), RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz C15, GPU: Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1080 Windforce OC GV-N1080WF3OC-8GD Graphics Cards, STORAGE: 120GB CRUCIAL SSD, 1TB WD BLUE, COOLER: Cooler Master 212 EVO RGB Black Edition, FANS: 4 x MasterFan MF120R RGB (2 Front, 1 Back, 1 Top), 1 x Noctua NF-P12 Redux 1700 RPM(Back off Cooler), PC CASE: Cooler Master MB500 case, PSU: EVGA 750 BQ.

 

My Kids PC:

CPU: AMD Phenom II x4 955 (95watt @3.5Ghz @1.40V), MOBO: ASUS M2A-VM, RAM: Kingston 8GB (4x2GB) DDR2 800MHz, GPU: nVidia GT 710 2GB DDR3 (OC’ed Clock to 1300Mhz and Memory to 950Mhz), STORAGE: 250GB HDD, 500GB HDD, COOLER:  Cooler Master 212 EVO, PC CASE: Cooler Master Q300L , FANS: 3 x upHere RED LED Fans (2 Front, 1 Back), PSU: Generic 300 Watt PSU.

 

Console:  PS4 - vjizzle2384

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1 hour ago, Enderman said:

That's a lot of voltage.....

This is a 2600k not an 8700K.

You're just killing it faster.

NOW THAT'S A LOT OF DAMAGE!

 

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7 hours ago, corrado33 said:

1.35 may have been safe, but 1.4-1.5 certainly wasn't. A constantly overclocked CPU will, over time, require more voltage to keep the same overclock. Seems you... accelerated that process. 

 

Not to mention doing all of that on a hyper 212? No way you were at safe temps when stress testing. 

As I said, I ran those voltages for like an hour, and out of that hour, just a few minutes stress testing, and you can safely go above the 24/7 safe voltage for a short period, as said by Gamers Nexus and Buildzoid, they even claim they've ran like 1.6-1.8v without having issues, because it was just for a few benchmark sessions.

 

And yes, the Hyper 212x does just fine, 60-70C (75C tops) when gaming and 80C when stress testing with Prime95. This CPU, unlike the new oven CPUs from Intel, doesn't pull a whole lot of power. At this clock and voltage, it usually pulls about 80w in full load and 120-125w in the maximum power consumption test in Prime95. Not to mention it's soldered.

 

7 hours ago, Enderman said:

That's a lot of voltage.....

This is a 2600k not an 8700K.

You're just killing it faster.

1.35v is a lot of voltage? Because if you mean 1.4v+, as I said, it only went on full load at those voltages for less than half an hour, the rest of the time it was just idling without fixed voltage. And AFAIK, it's the other way around, newer CPUs can take less voltage than older ones because the transistors are smaller, am I wrong?

 

6 hours ago, vjizzle2384 said:

Never go above 1.4v

Well, I just went past that for a matter of minutes, and I've seen people running that 24/7, which sounds crazy to me, but my 24/7 voltage is just 1.35v.

 

My actual question here is, can just 1.35v degrade my CPU that fast? Because I want a few years out of it still, and if it is degrading this fast, I'll give up my 4.5GHz for something like 4.3 or 4.4 with lower voltages. All that I've seen points to: Up to 1.36v is fine for 24/7, up to 1.42v is the limit and 1.5v+ is just for short benchmark sessions, I've even seen a guy running like 1.7v in suicide runs, but my freaking 1.35v seems to be killing my CPU too quickly.

 

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/so-my-cpu-has-degraded.404666/

CPU: i7 2600K 4.4GHz@1.3V | Motherboard: Asus P8P67 Pro | CPU Cooler: CoolerMaster Hyper 212x | RAM: Corsair Vengeance 4x4GB @1600MHz CL9

GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1070 Ti G1 Gaming @2GHz | Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + Seagate Barracuda 2TB  | PSU: Corsair TX550M | Monitor: LG 29UM69G

Keyboard: Corsair K70 LUX MX Red | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB | Case: Corsair Carbide 400C | Headphone: Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro | Microphone: Blusmart Lapel

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8 hours ago, Vasllo said:

I messed around at 4.7GHz with 1.4-1.5v

Probably shouldn't have done this, sometimes even if it was "just for an hour" these things can be the trigger for issues, the same way people complaining FurMark killed their GPU but it was just "for an hour of testing"

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26 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Probably shouldn't have done this, sometimes even if it was "just for an hour" these things can be the trigger for issues, the same way people complaining FurMark killed their GPU but it was just "for an hour of testing"

I really didn't see this coming, I though it would be fine just for finding the limit. Also, this was some time ago, right before my first voltage bump, and it's been stable for like a couple of months then this now. I'll be lowering my clocks to somewhere between 4.2-4.4GHz for now and will YOLO it back to 4.5GHz when I get a better GPU, because I still don't believe a 1.36-1.37v would kill it that fast, the guy in the link I posted ran his at 4.8GHz with 1.38v for 3 years before degradation. Also, is Furmark that dangerous? I've ran it for hours on my 970, ran as high as 1540MHz there just to find the limit and test stability as a first test, I guess I'll be sticking to Heaven Unegine Benchmark from now on.

CPU: i7 2600K 4.4GHz@1.3V | Motherboard: Asus P8P67 Pro | CPU Cooler: CoolerMaster Hyper 212x | RAM: Corsair Vengeance 4x4GB @1600MHz CL9

GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1070 Ti G1 Gaming @2GHz | Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + Seagate Barracuda 2TB  | PSU: Corsair TX550M | Monitor: LG 29UM69G

Keyboard: Corsair K70 LUX MX Red | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB | Case: Corsair Carbide 400C | Headphone: Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro | Microphone: Blusmart Lapel

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31 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Probably shouldn't have done this, sometimes even if it was "just for an hour" these things can be the trigger for issues, the same way people complaining FurMark killed their GPU but it was just "for an hour of testing"

Another interesting things about my CPU, 4.5GHz doesn't seem to be in the "voltage wall", I just ran 4.2GHz with 1.27v and 4.3GHz won't hold at that voltage, so I'll guess it takes about 1.3v for 4.3GHz, which isn't a big jump to 1.36v for 4.5GHz, my wall seems to be 4.6GHz+ which takes more voltage and a higher LLC. Also, current doesn't seem to be affected much at all, it pulled 115w at 4.2GHz@1.27v and 125w at 4.5GHz@1.35v, and even when I tried 4.7GHz, it wouldn't pull much more current. AFAIK, current and thermals are what kills the CPU, Intel specifies 92A for the non-K and 100A for the K skus as max safe limit, and I'm running at 90-92A at Prime95 which is as unrealistic as it gets, and my temps seem fine, so what gives this degradation, I still can't understand. On AIDA64 it was pulling just 86w at 4.2GHz in the low 70's, so I think I'm pretty well withing both limits.

CPU: i7 2600K 4.4GHz@1.3V | Motherboard: Asus P8P67 Pro | CPU Cooler: CoolerMaster Hyper 212x | RAM: Corsair Vengeance 4x4GB @1600MHz CL9

GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1070 Ti G1 Gaming @2GHz | Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + Seagate Barracuda 2TB  | PSU: Corsair TX550M | Monitor: LG 29UM69G

Keyboard: Corsair K70 LUX MX Red | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB | Case: Corsair Carbide 400C | Headphone: Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro | Microphone: Blusmart Lapel

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Update: I'll be running 4.4GHz from now on since I don't really need that extra 100MHz and 4.4 seems stable at just 1.3v (almost 2h of AIDA64), which is a great drop off in voltage, and it's just pulling 88w, which amounts to 68A and is running in the mid 60's (best core in the low 60's and worst core in the high 60's). I guess I found my CPU's sweetspot.

CPU: i7 2600K 4.4GHz@1.3V | Motherboard: Asus P8P67 Pro | CPU Cooler: CoolerMaster Hyper 212x | RAM: Corsair Vengeance 4x4GB @1600MHz CL9

GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1070 Ti G1 Gaming @2GHz | Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + Seagate Barracuda 2TB  | PSU: Corsair TX550M | Monitor: LG 29UM69G

Keyboard: Corsair K70 LUX MX Red | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB | Case: Corsair Carbide 400C | Headphone: Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro | Microphone: Blusmart Lapel

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3 hours ago, Vasllo said:

As I said, I ran those voltages for like an hour, and out of that hour, just a few minutes stress testing, and you can safely go above the 24/7 safe voltage for a short period, as said by Gamers Nexus and Buildzoid, they even claim they've ran like 1.6-1.8v without having issues, because it was just for a few benchmark sessions.

 

And yes, the Hyper 212x does just fine, 60-70C (75C tops) when gaming and 80C when stress testing with Prime95. This CPU, unlike the new oven CPUs from Intel, doesn't pull a whole lot of power. At this clock and voltage, it usually pulls about 80w in full load and 120-125w in the maximum power consumption test in Prime95. Not to mention it's soldered.

 

1.35v is a lot of voltage? Because if you mean 1.4v+, as I said, it only went on full load at those voltages for less than half an hour, the rest of the time it was just idling without fixed voltage. And AFAIK, it's the other way around, newer CPUs can take less voltage than older ones because the transistors are smaller, am I wrong?

 

Well, I just went past that for a matter of minutes, and I've seen people running that 24/7, which sounds crazy to me, but my 24/7 voltage is just 1.35v.

 

My actual question here is, can just 1.35v degrade my CPU that fast? Because I want a few years out of it still, and if it is degrading this fast, I'll give up my 4.5GHz for something like 4.3 or 4.4 with lower voltages. All that I've seen points to: Up to 1.36v is fine for 24/7, up to 1.42v is the limit and 1.5v+ is just for short benchmark sessions, I've even seen a guy running like 1.7v in suicide runs, but my freaking 1.35v seems to be killing my CPU too quickly.

 

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/so-my-cpu-has-degraded.404666/

Basically any overclocking or raising voltage will degrade any CPU and naturally the CPU will degrade overtime but you raising the voltage will speed it up

My PC:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600X Processor (4.4Ghz), MOBO: GIGABYTE X470 AORUS Gaming 7 WiFi (AMD Ryzen AM4/ X470/ Intel Wave 2 WiFi/M.2), RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz C15, GPU: Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1080 Windforce OC GV-N1080WF3OC-8GD Graphics Cards, STORAGE: 120GB CRUCIAL SSD, 1TB WD BLUE, COOLER: Cooler Master 212 EVO RGB Black Edition, FANS: 4 x MasterFan MF120R RGB (2 Front, 1 Back, 1 Top), 1 x Noctua NF-P12 Redux 1700 RPM(Back off Cooler), PC CASE: Cooler Master MB500 case, PSU: EVGA 750 BQ.

 

My Kids PC:

CPU: AMD Phenom II x4 955 (95watt @3.5Ghz @1.40V), MOBO: ASUS M2A-VM, RAM: Kingston 8GB (4x2GB) DDR2 800MHz, GPU: nVidia GT 710 2GB DDR3 (OC’ed Clock to 1300Mhz and Memory to 950Mhz), STORAGE: 250GB HDD, 500GB HDD, COOLER:  Cooler Master 212 EVO, PC CASE: Cooler Master Q300L , FANS: 3 x upHere RED LED Fans (2 Front, 1 Back), PSU: Generic 300 Watt PSU.

 

Console:  PS4 - vjizzle2384

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2 minutes ago, vjizzle2384 said:

Basically any overclocking or raising voltage will degrade any CPU and naturally the CPU will degrade overtime but you raising the voltage will speed it up

Yes, but this is a blank statement, what I would like to know is where in a degradation curve I would be with that voltage, low or high degradation risk, because 10mV in less than an year without a hardcore overclock seems too quick to me, I was assuming 1.35V would have irrelevant degradation (like from 20 to 17 years), but doesn't seem to be the case. Everything that I've seen leads me to believe 1.35V is pretty damn safe for SB, I see a lot of people running 1.4V+ 24/7, but my experience says 1.35V is not that safe for my chip, that's where I'm confused.

CPU: i7 2600K 4.4GHz@1.3V | Motherboard: Asus P8P67 Pro | CPU Cooler: CoolerMaster Hyper 212x | RAM: Corsair Vengeance 4x4GB @1600MHz CL9

GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1070 Ti G1 Gaming @2GHz | Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + Seagate Barracuda 2TB  | PSU: Corsair TX550M | Monitor: LG 29UM69G

Keyboard: Corsair K70 LUX MX Red | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB | Case: Corsair Carbide 400C | Headphone: Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro | Microphone: Blusmart Lapel

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2 hours ago, Vasllo said:

Yes, but this is a blank statement, what I would like to know is where in a degradation curve I would be with that voltage, low or high degradation risk, because 10mV in less than an year without a hardcore overclock seems too quick to me, I was assuming 1.35V would have irrelevant degradation (like from 20 to 17 years), but doesn't seem to be the case. Everything that I've seen leads me to believe 1.35V is pretty damn safe for SB, I see a lot of people running 1.4V+ 24/7, but my experience says 1.35V is not that safe for my chip, that's where I'm confused.

You keep thinking that it was the 1.35V that did the harm to your chip but we keep telling you that it was likely the 1.4-1.5V you ran for "less than an hour".

 

Think of it this way. Voltage is like water in a bucket. The bucket has a small pinhole at the bottom. The water coming out of the pinhole represents the damage being done to the transistors in your chip. At some voltage (usually stock or stock+), the pinhole won't really leak much water due to water surface tension. But then if you raise the water in the bucket enough, it'll eventually break the surface tension and water will come running out of the pinhole as fast as it can. You probably killed more transistors in your "less than hour" testing at 1.4-1.5V than you have with your 24/7 running of 1.35V. 

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49 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

You keep thinking that it was the 1.35V that did the harm to your chip but we keep telling you that it was likely the 1.4-1.5V you ran for "less than an hour".

 

Think of it this way. Voltage is like water in a bucket. The bucket has a small pinhole at the bottom. The water coming out of the pinhole represents the damage being done to the transistors in your chip. At some voltage (usually stock or stock+), the pinhole won't really leak much water due to water surface tension. But then if you raise the water in the bucket enough, it'll eventually break the surface tension and water will come running out of the pinhole as fast as it can. You probably killed more transistors in your "less than hour" testing at 1.4-1.5V than you have with your 24/7 running of 1.35V. 

What he said ^

My PC:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600X Processor (4.4Ghz), MOBO: GIGABYTE X470 AORUS Gaming 7 WiFi (AMD Ryzen AM4/ X470/ Intel Wave 2 WiFi/M.2), RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz C15, GPU: Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1080 Windforce OC GV-N1080WF3OC-8GD Graphics Cards, STORAGE: 120GB CRUCIAL SSD, 1TB WD BLUE, COOLER: Cooler Master 212 EVO RGB Black Edition, FANS: 4 x MasterFan MF120R RGB (2 Front, 1 Back, 1 Top), 1 x Noctua NF-P12 Redux 1700 RPM(Back off Cooler), PC CASE: Cooler Master MB500 case, PSU: EVGA 750 BQ.

 

My Kids PC:

CPU: AMD Phenom II x4 955 (95watt @3.5Ghz @1.40V), MOBO: ASUS M2A-VM, RAM: Kingston 8GB (4x2GB) DDR2 800MHz, GPU: nVidia GT 710 2GB DDR3 (OC’ed Clock to 1300Mhz and Memory to 950Mhz), STORAGE: 250GB HDD, 500GB HDD, COOLER:  Cooler Master 212 EVO, PC CASE: Cooler Master Q300L , FANS: 3 x upHere RED LED Fans (2 Front, 1 Back), PSU: Generic 300 Watt PSU.

 

Console:  PS4 - vjizzle2384

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18 hours ago, corrado33 said:

You keep thinking that it was the 1.35V that did the harm to your chip but we keep telling you that it was likely the 1.4-1.5V you ran for "less than an hour".

 

Think of it this way. Voltage is like water in a bucket. The bucket has a small pinhole at the bottom. The water coming out of the pinhole represents the damage being done to the transistors in your chip. At some voltage (usually stock or stock+), the pinhole won't really leak much water due to water surface tension. But then if you raise the water in the bucket enough, it'll eventually break the surface tension and water will come running out of the pinhole as fast as it can. You probably killed more transistors in your "less than hour" testing at 1.4-1.5V than you have with your 24/7 running of 1.35V. 

Well, thanks for the input, considering everything I saw about 2600k's, I really didn't expect 1.42v (just remembered the actual voltage I ran, and it was at full load for maybe 10-20min) would harm my CPU significantly. The weird thing is, the next voltage bump came like two months after this test, I would expect the damage to only affect it once, but could it actually cause more damage in the long run? It seems weird to me, because I can see how running high voltages can degrade my CPU in that moment, but I can't see it causing faster degradation overall. Also, I'm a bit confused about current x voltage, because I've always believed that voltage killed CPUs, but Gamers Nexus and Actually Hardcore Overclocking both stated that current is what kills CPUs, which I discovered recently, so in that case, voltage wouldn't do much. And calculating the current my CPU was pulling, it was in the low 90's (in Prime95 max power consumption test, in normal usage it was about 65A full load), and Intel specs the limit at 100A. The more I read about CPU damage, the more confused I get, lol.

 

I had a BSOD yesterday and had to bump +5mV in my new overclock, which is now 4.4GHz@1.31v, which I would get REALLY surprised if did any considerable harm to my CPU.

 

Anyways, thanks for everyone's input, I'm just skeptic about the whole thing, but in the end, the degradation is real and faster than I expected.

CPU: i7 2600K 4.4GHz@1.3V | Motherboard: Asus P8P67 Pro | CPU Cooler: CoolerMaster Hyper 212x | RAM: Corsair Vengeance 4x4GB @1600MHz CL9

GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1070 Ti G1 Gaming @2GHz | Storage: Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + Seagate Barracuda 2TB  | PSU: Corsair TX550M | Monitor: LG 29UM69G

Keyboard: Corsair K70 LUX MX Red | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB | Case: Corsair Carbide 400C | Headphone: Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro | Microphone: Blusmart Lapel

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