windows 10 Microsoft vows to focus in delivering better under the hood updates for Windows 10 in early 2019 because 2018 has not been so great

[Froody129]

Maybe if they stopped harvesting all our data under the hood it would run better?

 

MS is pushing people to Linux and Mac. 

[mrthuvi]

35 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Not at all. A vulnerability is an avenue by which problematic software can get onto your system or by which your system can be meddled with in an unwanted or harmful manner. Therefore, an enabled Windows Update is itself a vulnerability.

 

Looking at personal experience of where more issues come from, I can see that an enabled Windows Update is a graver threat than all of Windows 10's other security vulnerabilities combined. Therefore, it is reasonable that Windows Update would be the first threat to be stopped.

Except your own source you cited disagrees. 

 

https://www.cvedetails.com/cve-help.php

 

Quote

An information security "vulnerability" is a mistake in software that can be directly used by a hacker to gain access to a system or network.

 

[DrMacintosh]

On 11/14/2018 at 7:25 PM, captain_to_fire said:

I can't speak about macOS because I don't have a Mac at the moment

Mojave is pretty rock solid tbh. I've only noticed 1 bug so far with Finder for the new gallery view and it was fixed with a /killall Finder command, lol

 

Also this is best feature of macOS

Consent is what separates other operating systems from Windows 10

[DrMacintosh]

17 hours ago, asus killer said:

kill Windows 10, start to work on windows 11. W10 is now a patchwork of updates and a million useless features, what can go wrong really?

Its Microsoft, the architecture has been the same since XP with fancy visuals and features just bolted onto it. Microsoft is like the Bethesda of operating systems. 

[williamcll]

1 hour ago, Froody129 said:

Maybe if they stopped harvesting all our data under the hood it would run better?

 

MS is pushing people to Linux and Mac. 

Shouldn't it be the other way around. The more data you collect the more issues could be discovered?

 

I wish Ubuntus work bug free on the Pi, getting so many issues I'm going back to the awful raspbian.

[Delicieuxz]

8 hours ago, mrthuvi said:

Except your own source you cited disagrees. 

 

https://www.cvedetails.com/cve-help.php

 

Quote

An information security "vulnerability" is a mistake in software that can be directly used by a hacker to gain access to a system or network.

 

 

There is no disagreement there. That is a part of what I said here:

 

9 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Not at all. A vulnerability is an avenue by which problematic software can get onto your system or by which your system can be meddled with in an unwanted or harmful manner. Therefore, an enabled Windows Update is itself a vulnerability.

 

And so is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulnerability_(computing)

 

Quote

In computer security, a vulnerability is a weakness which can be exploited by a Threat Actor, such as an attacker, to perform unauthorized actions within a computer system. To exploit a vulnerability, an attacker must have at least one applicable tool or technique that can connect to a system weakness. In this frame, vulnerability is also known as the attack surface.

 

Because of the very low QA of modern Microsoft updates, and because Microsoft maliciously exploits the Windows Update system to force in unwanted spyware and data-harvestingware and to unilaterally take control of people's systems to use them as test-beds for known-to-have-issues software, Microsoft fully befits the definition of a threat actor, and is both an accidental and intentional one: https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/threat-actor

 

Quote

A threat actor, also called a malicious actor, is an entity that is partially or wholly responsible for an incident that impacts – or has the potential to impact -- an organization's security. 

 

In threat intelligence, actors are generally categorized as external, internal or partner.  With external threat actors, no trust or privilege previously exists, while with internal or partner actors, some level of trust or privilege has previously existed. The actor may be an individual or an organization; the incident could be intentional or accidental and its purpose malicious or benign.

 

Ergo, Windows Update is literally a security vulnerability, and:

 

9 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Looking at personal experience of where more issues come from, I can see that an enabled Windows Update is a graver threat than all of Windows 10's other security vulnerabilities combined. Therefore, it is reasonable that Windows Update would be the first threat to be stopped.

 

[RejZoR]

I frankly don't see anything wrong with the OS itself, Windows 10 has been running great for me since day one. What does bother me is the way how you get in touch with them which is terrible.

 

Either you give feedback through Feedback Hub or you manage to find contact and you have to deal with generic support from India or something. And if I wanted to escalate to higher level I'd have to give them my phone number and make an appointment. WHY? I literally gave them exact KB number that was causing the problem and supplied CPU-Z benchmark as proof that performance dramatically dropped on certain Stoney Ridge APU. Just fix it, you don't need to clean my registry and stuff. To my luck, after few weeks, the issue got fixed, allegedly because they were already dealing with this issue.

[mrthuvi]

3 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

 

There is no disagreement there. That is a part of what I said here:

 

 

And so is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulnerability_(computing)

 

 

Because of the very low QA of modern Microsoft updates, and because Microsoft maliciously exploits the Windows Update system to force in unwanted spyware and data-harvestingware and to unilaterally take control of people's systems to use them as test-beds for known-to-have-issues software, Microsoft fully befits the definition of a threat actor, and is both an accidental and intentional one: https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/threat-actor

 

 

Ergo, Windows Update is literally a security vulnerability, and:

 

 

So to recap, you criticized windows for having many vulnerabilities, citing a source that defines vulnerabilities as things that can be used to gain access to a computer. And in the same paragraph, supporting disabling windows updates which help closed down those vulnerabilities. However, you didn't clarify that you didn't want to use that source's definition but prefer cherry picked definitions from wikipedia that fits your point of view. 

 

[Delicieuxz]

1 hour ago, mrthuvi said:

So to recap, you criticized windows for having many vulnerabilities, citing a source that defines vulnerabilities as things that can be used to gain access to a computer. And in the same paragraph, supporting disabling windows updates which help closed down those vulnerabilities. However, you didn't clarify that you didn't want to use that source's definition but prefer cherry picked definitions from wikipedia that fits your point of view. 

You're getting a lot of things confused, here. Or, maybe more likely, you're trying to talk yourself out of a hole that you've dug yourself into.

 

1 hour ago, mrthuvi said:

So to recap, you criticized windows for having many vulnerabilities

I stated the statistical fact that Windows 10 is the least secure Windows OS. If you think of that as criticizing, then OK.

 

Windows 10 is the least secure Windows OS not only due to non-Microsoft security threats, but also due to Microsoft-based security threats. Windows 10 is the least secure modern Windows OS regarding both.

 

If stopping one of those threat avenues means not stopping the other, then it has to be looked at which avenue is reliably the source of greater threats. And that would be Windows Update and Microsoft.

 

That said, there is still 3rd-party protection software that can be used effectively after Windows Update is disabled. But, even without any, my experience is that Windows Update and Microsoft still by far pose the greater security threat.

 

1 hour ago, mrthuvi said:

citing a source that...

The source that Windows 10 is the least-secure Windows OS to-date is the public history of Windows 10's discovered and documented vulnerabilities. The website presents those known discovered vulnerabilities.

 

1 hour ago, mrthuvi said:

you criticized windows for having many vulnerabilities, citing a source that defines vulnerabilities as things that can be used to gain access to a computer.

... which describes Windows Update, which Microsoft uses to gain access and make changes to a person's computer including without authorization, to reset settings, re-install removed programs and ads, to break functionality, and to install software threats including those that steal a person's data and which create bugs, system bricking, BSODs - both accidentally (bugs, system BSODs, systems bricking) and intentionally (data-harvesting, resetting settings, reinstalling programs, etc).

 

1 hour ago, mrthuvi said:

And in the same paragraph, supporting disabling windows updates which help closed down those vulnerabilities.

You're being very disingenuous there and working from a fantasy description of Windows Update. I support disabling Windows Update to close that mother lode of security threats, because my experience has proven to me, and public records grant evidence that the security vulnerability of Windows Update actually causes a much higher rate of the same issues that other security vulnerabilities are considered threats for causing than all other security vulnerabilities combined.

 

1 hour ago, mrthuvi said:

However, you didn't clarify that you didn't want to use that source's definition but prefer cherry picked definitions from wikipedia that fits your point of view. 

That's deceitful of you. I have specifically pointed out to you that both definitions presented in this thread conform with what I've said a security vulnerability is, and to claim that I don't want to use one definition or the other is another false assertion and a misrepresentation of my words.

 

"An information security "vulnerability" is a mistake in software that can be directly used by a hacker to gain access to a system or network" is an aspect of security vulnerabilities that exists within what I've said without contradiction ("A vulnerability is an avenue by which problematic software can get onto your system or by which your system can be meddled with in an unwanted or harmful manner") and also the fuller description of security vulnerabilities that I showed you ("In computer security, a vulnerability is a weakness which can be exploited by a Threat Actor, such as an attacker, to perform unauthorized actions within a computer system. To exploit a vulnerability, an attacker must have at least one applicable tool or technique that can connect to a system weakness. In this frame, vulnerability is also known as the attack surface").

 

There is no contradiction between these descriptions. Feel free to use either. I count both as accurate, and both affirm what I've said and show your contention against what I said to be meritless.

[samcool55]

18 hours ago, SlimyPython said:

There's always complaints... ALWAYS...

Well imo for good reason.

If the result of next month is below 0.4k, it would look like there are 0 problems because there won't be a bar, but no bar does not equal to no problems.

It would mean less than 0.4k problems, and at that point it would be guesswork how much it actually is, is it going to be 0.39k? 0.05k? We cannot know that...

[mrthuvi]

6 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

You're getting a lot of things confused, here. Or, maybe more likely, you're trying to talk yourself out of a hole that you've dug yourself into.

 

I stated the statistical fact that Windows 10 is the least secure Windows OS. If you think of that as criticizing, then OK.

 

Windows 10 is the least secure Windows OS not only due to non-Microsoft security threats, but also due to Microsoft-based security threats. Windows 10 is the least secure modern Windows OS regarding both.

 

If stopping one of those threat avenues means not stopping the other, then it has to be looked at which avenue is reliably the source of greater threats. And that would be Windows Update and Microsoft.

 

That said, there is still 3rd-party protection software that can be used effectively after Windows Update is disabled. But, even without any, my experience is that Windows Update and Microsoft still by far pose the greater security threat.

 

The source that Windows 10 is the least-secure Windows OS to-date is the public history of Windows 10's discovered and documented vulnerabilities. The website presents those known discovered vulnerabilities.

 

... which describes Windows Update, which Microsoft uses to gain access and make changes to a person's computer including without authorization, to reset settings, re-install removed programs and ads, to break functionality, and to install software threats including those that steal a person's data and which create bugs, system bricking, BSODs - both accidentally (bugs, system BSODs, systems bricking) and intentionally (data-harvesting, resetting settings, reinstalling programs, etc).

 

You're being very disingenuous there and working from a fantasy description of Windows Update. I support disabling Windows Update to close that mother lode of security threats, because my experience has proven to me, and public records grant evidence that the security vulnerability of Windows Update actually causes a much higher rate of the same issues that other security vulnerabilities are considered threats for causing than all other security vulnerabilities combined.

 

That's deceitful of you. I have specifically pointed out to you that both definitions presented in this thread conform with what I've said a security vulnerability is, and to claim that I don't want to use one definition or the other is another false assertion and a misrepresentation of my words.

 

"An information security "vulnerability" is a mistake in software that can be directly used by a hacker to gain access to a system or network" is an aspect of security vulnerabilities that exists within what I've said without contradiction ("A vulnerability is an avenue by which problematic software can get onto your system or by which your system can be meddled with in an unwanted or harmful manner") and also the fuller description of security vulnerabilities that I showed you ("In computer security, a vulnerability is a weakness which can be exploited by a Threat Actor, such as an attacker, to perform unauthorized actions within a computer system. To exploit a vulnerability, an attacker must have at least one applicable tool or technique that can connect to a system weakness. In this frame, vulnerability is also known as the attack surface").

 

There is no contradiction between these descriptions. Feel free to use either. I count both as accurate, and both affirm what I've said and show your contention against what I said to be meritless.

Well, I've enjoyed our conversation. Best of luck with your definition of "vulnerabilities". Not following common sense nor industry's usage of the word, but sure, I understand.

[Delicieuxz]

12 hours ago, mrthuvi said:

Well, I've enjoyed our conversation. Best of luck with your definition of "vulnerabilities". Not following common sense nor industry's usage of the word, but sure, I understand.

But, it is the industry definition. You're just not used to hearing it used in proper context to describe Microsoft and Windows because Windows Update historically hasn't been the major security threat that it has become under Satya Nadella, and so you're reacting according to how your sentiments are accustomed to feeling rather than through objective consideration of the present situation.

 

The industry doesn't give out exemptions to Microsoft or other companies concerning the meanings of security, security threats, and security vulnerabilities.

 

My idea of security is protecting the integrity of my system from extraneous threats. Enabling Windows Update is opening a massive door to extraneous threats and playing Russian roulette with a system at least twice a year, and that is not an example of security.

[Trik'Stari]

Maybe allow me to disable Cortana completely, maybe allow me to disable updates without creating group policy rules and regedits.

 

Maybe stop obscuring the options I want to change with pointless sliders that ultimately lead me to the same fucking window for those options that you had in Windows 7.

 

 

Maybe stop notifying me that notifications will be muted when I am gaming. Every. Single. Fucking. Time.

[jagdtigger]

3 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Maybe allow me to disable Cortana completely, maybe allow me to disable updates without creating group policy rules and regedits.

 

Maybe stop obscuring the options I want to change with pointless sliders that ultimately lead me to the same fucking window for those options that you had in Windows 7.

 

 

Maybe stop notifying me that notifications will be muted when I am gaming. Every. Single. Fucking. Time.

And stop the data """""collection""""" if the user want to disable it fully(!). Oh and let us completely remove all UWP crap. Its pretty much pointless on PC.

[LAwLz]

I wonder if anything will actually change. 

Microsoft are kind of famous for saying they will do better, and then not doing anything to fix the issues. 

How many times have they said they want to focus on pc gaming again? Like 15 times? 20 times?

[bitsandpieces]

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I wonder if anything will actually change. 

Microsoft are kind of famous for saying they will do better, and then not doing anything to fix the issues. 

How many times have they said they want to focus on pc gaming again? Like 15 times? 20 times?

They're still trying, they're not used to manual focus

[yian88]

Honestly im surprised all software works at all and we dont get hangs, crashes and auto hardrive nukes 90% of the time.

Especially with OS'es like windows that are so old, so much old code and legacy, and they have the worst programmers, and even worse designers.

Windows still running on old windows base design since win XP 32bit or older, its ridiculous.

Every piece of software microsoft produces is 98% bloatware dead code and telemetry and 2% actual code that runs. 

Windows full of garbage:

• Win registry abomination.
• Forced useless Services;
• Winsxs useless folder;
• .msi packages abomination requiring you to keep a copy of their installer in Windows/Installer folder, and if you manually remove them you cant uninstall the app installed with .msi lol.
• Drivers installed twice, once in their folders and another in the Windows/System32/DriverStore.
• Windows/Software Distribution folder no auto cleanup after updates.
• Duplicated/Triplicated UWP apps files 1. Windows/SystemApps 2.Windows/InfusedApps 3.C:/ProgramFiles/WindowsApps
• Huge useless hibernation file in C drive.
• C:/Users/username/AppData folder filling with garbage and all sorts of weird stuff.
• C:/ProgramData  folder always filled with microsoft stuff like installers, defender scans and useless copies of packages n shit.

 

Im surprised all this shit OS still holds itself togheter at all with all that glued togheter garbage.

Windows on the outside (interface and uwp shit, when it works that is):

 

Actual Windows under the hood:

 

Yes folks thats what you an i are running on our windows systems everyday for the last decade.

Windows desperately needs a new version rebuilt with all the garbage taken out, including 32bit everything its dead already let it go, the rest of the software needs to adapt, i do NOT want 20 years compatibility. They can make separate version for that idc.

[Canada EH]

Quote

Microsoft vows to focus in delivering better under the hood updates for Windows 10 in early 2019 because 2018 has not been so great

Well there is still 45 days left in 2018, love the procrastination of Bill and Co.

[jsonschema]

On 11/17/2018 at 11:40 AM, Trik'Stari said:

Maybe allow me to disable Cortana completely, maybe allow me to disable updates without creating group policy rules and regedits.

 

Maybe stop obscuring the options I want to change with pointless sliders that ultimately lead me to the same fucking window for those options that you had in Windows 7.

 

 

Maybe stop notifying me that notifications will be muted when I am gaming. Every. Single. Fucking. Time.

use LTSC windows you can do whatever you want with it,i have data logging etc everything switched off. Pm me if you want a key,i got a MSDN enterprise subscription from work.