windows 10 Microsoft vows to focus in delivering better under the hood updates for Windows 10 in early 2019 because 2018 has not been so great

[like_ooh_ahh]

Sources: The Verge, Microsoft

 

Quote

Microsoft is now listening to the feedback from Windows 10 users, and it’s starting a series of blog posts to be more transparent about how it develops and tests Windows. The Windows 10 October 2018 Update is being re-released today, and Microsoft is planning to add a Windows update status dashboard in the coming year to document how the current roll out is going.

 

Windows is a complex system to test, as not every machine is the same and components, drivers, and software varies massively across the more than 700 million machines running Windows 10. “With Windows 10 alone we work to deliver quality to over 700 million monthly active Windows 10 devices, over 35 million application titles with greater than 175 million application versions, and 16 million unique hardware / driver combinations,” explains Michael Fortin, corporate vice president of Windows. “In addition, the ecosystem delivers new drivers, firmware, application updates and/or non-security updates daily.”

I'm waiting Microsoft. But to cut them some slack, it's not like they're the only ones who experiences software fiascoes because of the fact that humans are imperfect and software flaws are expected. 

• iOS 6's amazing maps app that lead to Scott Forstall's departure from Apple 
• Samsung's proprietary TouchWiz (especially the ones in Galaxy S3, Note 2 and S4) 
• 
• Android 3.0 Honeycomb and 5.0 Lollipop (I detest the Lollipop update on my LG G3)
• iOS 11 and macOS High Sierra

 

Unlike Apple who has to hone specifically on Macs alone (and they have no responsibility to fix kernel panic issues in Hackintosh users), Windows 10 is installed on many types of hardware configurations so optimizing for each configuration is not easy. Apple even promised more under the hood refinements with iOS 12 and macOS Mojave. I can't speak about macOS because I don't have a Mac at the moment but I'll say that iOS 12 is probably the smoothest iOS release ever. They delivered on the promise of improved performance on older hardware. 

 

Quote

Microsoft has been criticized with Windows 10 for shifting the way it tests the operating system. In the past, Microsoft used dedicated Software Test Engineer (STE) roles for ensuring quality, but the software giant axed most of these during a huge round of layoffs a year ahead of the Windows 10 release. Instead, it has favored developers testing their own work, or reports from the Windows Insider feedback program.

 

“We shifted the responsibility for base functional testing to our development teams in order to deliver higher quality code from the start,” explains Fortin. Microsoft changed the focus of validation testing and added customer feedback into the mix. Engineers also “self host” and install the very latest builds of Windows to test new feature changes and bug fixes. “A strong self-host culture is a source of pride for those of us working on Windows,” says Fortin.

I didn't knew until now that testing of Windows 10 was once just developer testing, no wonder the October update is buggy that it randomly deletes files (Who needs a ransomware infection when you can just update Windows 10? ). I'm glad that Microsoft is finally coming to their senses and they even boasted that incidences have decreased with each update.

 

I think Microsoft is way too generous with their own bar graph. I bet there are more Windows 10 complaints especially the Anniversary and October 2018 update. But I would say the Fall Creators Update is probably the most polished Windows 10 I've used. But of course this just speaks about better under the hood performance and not the other complaints like giving the option to defer updates for Home users just like in Windows 7 and 8.1 and turning off Telemetry for consumers and not just Enterprise users that doesn't require Registry changes. But this begs the question, what took them so long to realize that Windows 10 needs more under the hood fine tuning instead of adding more features that only a few will ever use?

[RorzNZ]

No uses for excuses! 

[Misanthrope]

Hi Microsoft: ever stopped to think that maybe people are not happy with the updates because both the content is superflous and you break shit and inconvenience the fuck out of people with them?

 

Maybe the way to be better is to not try to cram in as many updates let em cook more until you have a compelling group of improvements or ideas instead of a set fucking timeframe. We don't need an update just to make a certain date like "October!" just make sure it works and adds something useful instead of targeting a fucking release window.

[Doobeedoo]

Well that's great to hear and hopefully it is so. I've had no issues with updatess but good to assure more tighter improvements. 

I get new features can be neat and all, but they can do optimization only updates in between too. 

[asus killer]

kill Windows 10, start to work on windows 11. W10 is now a patchwork of updates and a million useless features, what can go wrong really?

[TechyBen]

15 minutes ago, asus killer said:

kill Windows 10, start to work on windows 11. W10 is now a patchwork of updates and a million useless features, what can go wrong really?

At this rate they may accidentally release Windows ME... XD

[Trixanity]

13 minutes ago, asus killer said:

kill Windows 10, start to work on windows 11. W10 is now a patchwork of updates and a million useless features, what can go wrong really?

I think the best idea is to move everything into a sandbox as a compatibility layer while making a brand new lean and modern core which to work from. Would eliminate a lot of the problems with the decades of spaghetti code. Help developers move over to the brand new OS and perhaps keep the compatibility layer patched for the next decade or so until it's no longer needed. Could even make it an optional component in your new more modular OS.

[like_ooh_ahh]

5 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

sandbox

Speaking of sandbox, Windows Defender is now a sandboxed process to prevent attacks exploiting Windows Defender... just saying  https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-defender-becomes-first-antivirus-to-run-inside-a-sandbox/

[samcool55]

Well for one that graph is just completely wrong. The Y-axis starts at 0.4, not 0, so wtf.

Also, the first year of a new windows OS is always buggy, so the early spike is perfectly fine.

 

But if you look at 2018 only, this year, it basically stayed the same so they actually managed to, well, not improve at all.

Also, it's still almost 500.000 devices being in trouble every month, like WTF, that's a LOT.

Let's say in the beginning there were around 1.000.000 devices in trouble every month, after all those updates, they managed to half those numbers.

Tbh that's a shitty result...

 

Was there ever a windows OS that had so much trouble after all those years of updates?

[Master Delta Chief]

Well I hope Microsoft doesn't break as many updates next year than now in 2018. It's quite the mess they made but it wasn't all too bad. They just don't always have to rely on the insider program. If they test it themselves a bit more carefully, then these issues we have now wouldn't be so big. 

 

9 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

 

I think Microsoft is way too generous with their own bar graph. I bet there are more Windows 10 complaints especially the Anniversary and October 2018 update. But I would say the Fall Creators Update is probably the most polished Windows 10 I've used. But of course this just speaks about better under the hood performance and not the other complaints like giving the option to defer updates for Home users just like in Windows 7 and 8.1 and turning off Telemetry for consumers and not just Enterprise users that doesn't require Registry changes. But this begs the question, what took them so long to realize that Windows 10 needs more under the hood fine tuning instead of adding more features that only a few will ever use?

I'd much rather see an independent graph rather than that one from Microsoft to give us maybe a 'better' picture on what sort of incidents happened in the support environment. Of course that's a little difficult to do but it should work.  

[like_ooh_ahh]

2 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Was there ever a windows OS that had so much trouble after all those years of updates?

I regret updating to Windows 10 when 8.1 is actually more stable imo. I know Luke still uses 8.1. 

[samcool55]

Just now, captain_to_fire said:

I regret updating to Windows 10 when 8.1 is actually more stable imo. I know Luke still uses 8.1. 

Well i don't like W10 either, i have it installed on an ssd ready to go, just need to change my boot order and job done, but for some reason i keep going back to W7.

But i'm really wondering if there was a windows OS ever with so much issues.

 

The only 2 that come to mind is vista, but that was mainly just really heavy to run, and ME, never heard a good thing about it, but that's also ancient.

[Syntaxvgm]

I got an idea Microsoft

If you stop forcing everyone but your LTSB customers to take the updates without even lubing up the old brown eye first, maybe every time an update is fucked up it wont be such a catastrophe! 

[schwellmo92]

1 hour ago, samcool55 said:

Well for one that graph is just completely wrong. The Y-axis starts at 0.4, not 0, so wtf.

Also, the first year of a new windows OS is always buggy, so the early spike is perfectly fine.

 

But if you look at 2018 only, this year, it basically stayed the same so they actually managed to, well, not improve at all.

Also, it's still almost 500.000 devices being in trouble every month, like WTF, that's a LOT.

Let's say in the beginning there were around 1.000.000 devices in trouble every month, after all those updates, they managed to half those numbers.

Tbh that's a shitty result...

 

Was there ever a windows OS that had so much trouble after all those years of updates?

The graph doesn't have to start at 0 just equal or below the lowest value, and 500,000 out of 700,000,000 isn't much (0.007%).

[Delicieuxz]

Well, Microsoft does literally say that Windows 10 Home and Pro are merely test (pilot) versions of Windows, used to test new Windows features to get them ready for widespread deployment.

 

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/33703.windows-10-servicing-branches-cb-cbb-and-ltsb-semi-annual-channel.aspx

 

Quote

 

This is the latest version of Windows and is called Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted), this version receives all upgrades (new versions) and updates (patches) from Microsoft within a few days of their release. Semi-Annual Channel(Targeted) is what all home users get and what most small business corporate Pro users will get.

...

New feature update releases are initially considered as Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted) releases: organizations will use these for pilot deployments to ensure compatibility with existing apps and infrastructure. After about four months, the feature update will be declared as Semi-Annual Channel, indicating that it is ready for broad deployment.

 

 

With Windows 10, Microsoft have downgraded what each edition of Windows means. The Windows 10 equivalent of Windows 7 Pro is Windows 10 Enterprise or LTSC. Windows 10 Pro is like a cross between Windows 7 Starter and Home, but with some additional neutering when it comes to admin controls.

 

IMO, the only truly competent edition of Windows 10 is LTSC, and even the 2019 / v1809 release of it had the same issues as all other 1809 editions and was consequently pulled from release. And Windows 10 LTSC is supposed to be the 'mission critical' edition of Windows 10. Yet, its 1809 release was a liability like all the other editions.

 

I've said it many times, and it's still worth saying: The only safe way to run Windows 10 is with Windows Update fully disabled, and preferably on the LTSC version. And, regardless of how it's run, Windows 10 is statistically the least-secure Windows OS to-date. So, better to just run Windows 7 or 8(.1) anyway.

 

My Windows 10 boot is running Enterprise right now, and once LTSC 2019's re-release is confirmed to be performing OK I'll be switching to it (licenses can be bought for cheap on eBay, reddit, Craigslist...), and then not have to worry about Microsoft updates for the next 5+ years.

 

 

 

P.S. I don't buy Microsoft's own graph on their number of incidents at all. And I don't think anybody else should, either. Microsoft lies and fabricates as policy. Lying was a big part of how they got so many people to install Windows 10 in the first place.

 

 

[SlimyPython]

11 hours ago, samcool55 said:

Well for one that graph is just completely wrong. The Y-axis starts at 0.4, not 0, so wtf.

There's always complaints... ALWAYS...

[mrthuvi]

10 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

I've said it many times, and it's still worth saying: The only safe way to run Windows 10 is with Windows Update fully disabled, and preferably on the LTSC version. And, regardless of how it's run, Windows 10 is statistically the least-secure Windows OS to-date. So, better to just run Windows 7 or 8(.1) anyway.

 

You are promoting disabling update and bashing windows for security in the same paragraph. You understand the irony in that, right?

[Delicieuxz]

30 minutes ago, mrthuvi said:

You are promoting disabling update and bashing windows for security in the same paragraph. You understand the irony in that, right?

The irony I see is that Microsoft's updates pose more of a threat than viruses and malware. Considering that Microsoft's Windows updates have bricked my Windows 10 OS 3 times, plus caused other things breaking and bugging out, disabling Windows Update IS promoting security. My OSes with Windows Update disabled have never had an issue, even after years of running with WU disabled.

 

Microsoft QA is total garbage, being almost non-existent, and Windows updates are far more likely to screw up your system than having a non-updated Windows OS is. Plus, Windows updates aren't required for security since you can run third-party anti-virus and anti-malware software.

[CommandMan7]

When I booted my desktop a few minutes ago to write this among other things, the Re-Released October Update made me think my PC was dying (which to be fair its HP garbage with a million aftermarket parts). There was no video output and endless bootlooping. No power to USB's. I tried booting it without the PCIe power plugged in, which for some reason fixed the video output. Plugged the PCIe power back in and rebooted. There was now video output but it still took like 7 or 8 bootloops to get to desktop. I'm not sure if its my crappy HW, but after I noticed it was updating when I turned it back on my best guess is that Windows did it. All we want is for it to WORK, Microsoft.

[mrthuvi]

59 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

The irony I see is that Microsoft's updates pose more of a threat than viruses and malware. Considering that Microsoft's Windows updates have bricked my Windows 10 OS 3 times, plus caused other things breaking and bugging out, disabling Windows Update IS promoting security. My OSes with Windows Update disabled have never had an issue, even after years of running with WU disabled.

  

Microsoft QA is total garbage, being almost non-existent, and Windows updates are far more likely to screw up your system than having a non-updated Windows OS is. Plus, Windows updates aren't required for security since you can run third-party anti-virus and anti-malware software.

If you are not installing the latest security update, you don't care about security, period. You prioritize STABILITY which is totally fine. But you can't skip security updates and pretend you care about security in the same breath.

[Delicieuxz]

57 minutes ago, mrthuvi said:

If you are not installing the latest security update, you don't care about security, period. You prioritize STABILITY which is totally fine. But you can't skip security updates and pretend you care about security in the same breath.

That's a false assertion.

 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/security

 

1. freedom from danger, risk, etc.; safety.
2. freedom from care, anxiety, or doubt; well-founded confidence.
3. something that secures or makes safe; protection; defence.

 

Updates that risk the integrity and proper functioning of your system and also potentially brick it completely, as well as which risk your non-OS data are certainly security risks.

 

What is the difference between a Microsoft update deleting your data and a virus deleting your data? In either case, your data is gone. The difference is probably that it's a lot more likely to happen from Windows updates than it is from a virus, and also that it's a lot easier to get rid of most viruses without causing harm to your system than it is to undo the damage of a bad Windows update.

 

It is possible to disable Windows Update and still be protected against most-all security threats. It is not possible to leave Windows Update running and still be protected against most-all security threats, since Microsoft's Windows updates themselves are the most common and frequent threat that a Windows 10 system encounters.

 

For example, disabling Windows Update before the v1607 Windows 10 update would have protected a system from contracting all of these issues:

 

January 2016: Windows 10 default programs keep changing

June 2016: Microsoft June Patch Breaks Group Policy Settings for Some Orgs

August 2016: 16 Windows 10 Anniversary Update Issues & How to Fix Them

August 2016: Microsoft admits to distributing Windows printing bugs in KB 3177725 and KB 3176493

August 2016: Partition disappears in Windows 10 Anniversary Update

August 2016: Microsoft Warns Windows 10 Update Has A Serious Problem

August 2016: Kindle crashes and broken PowerShell: Something isn’t right with Windows 10 testing

August 2016: Microsoft Has Broken Millions Of Webcams With Windows 10 Anniversary Update

Oct 2016: Flood of reports from people unable to install latest Windows update, resulting in an endless loop of repeated attempts

 

And disabling Windows Update before the v1809 Windows 10 update would have protected a system against all of these threats:

 

January 2018: Windows 10 will not start/boot after windows update

March 2018: Total Meltdown?

October 2018: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 update is reportedly wiping user data

October 2018: New Windows 10 1809 bug: Zip data-loss flaw is months old but Microsoft missed it

October 2018: HP users report BSOD after Tuesday patch

 

What's the difference between a piece of software that causes major OS and data problems called a virus and a piece of software that causes major OS and data problems called a patch?

 

Microsoft's security updates are themselves security threats, since some of them are deceptively labelled as security fixes when in reality they're spyware and data-harvestingware. The uncertainty inherently associated with Microsoft's patches due to Microsoft being a liar and cheat company is a security threat on its own.

 

I have become victim to many issues due to Windows 10 updates. I haven't fallen victim to any issue from disabling Windows Update in Windows 7 and 10, and doing so has surely spared me from many more issues.

 

Caring about system security is taking steps to ensure that the things that Microsoft Windows 10 updates are notorious for doing to people's systems can't happen to yours.

[D13H4RD]

Microsoft? Slow down with the feature updates. 

 

I doubt a lot of people even care much about some of the bigger features 

[mrthuvi]

1 hour ago, Delicieuxz said:

That's a false assertion.

 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/security

 

1. freedom from danger, risk, etc.; safety.
2. freedom from care, anxiety, or doubt; well-founded confidence.
3. something that secures or makes safe; protection; defence.

 

Updates that risk the integrity and proper functioning of your system and also potentially brick it completely, as well as which risk your non-OS data are certainly security risks.

 

What is the difference between a Microsoft update deleting your data and a virus deleting your data? In either case, your data is gone. The difference is probably that it's a lot more likely to happen from Windows updates than it is from a virus, and also that it's a lot easier to get rid of most viruses without causing harm to your system than it is to undo the damage of a bad Windows update.

 

It is possible to disable Windows Update and still be protected against most-all security threats. It is not possible to leave Windows Update running and still be protected against most-all security threats, since Microsoft's Windows updates themselves are the most common and frequent threat that a Windows 10 system encounters.

 

For example, disabling Windows Update before the v1607 Windows 10 update would have protected a system from contracting all of these issues:

 

January 2016: Windows 10 default programs keep changing

June 2016: Microsoft June Patch Breaks Group Policy Settings for Some Orgs

August 2016: 16 Windows 10 Anniversary Update Issues & How to Fix Them

August 2016: Microsoft admits to distributing Windows printing bugs in KB 3177725 and KB 3176493

August 2016: Partition disappears in Windows 10 Anniversary Update

August 2016: Microsoft Warns Windows 10 Update Has A Serious Problem

August 2016: Kindle crashes and broken PowerShell: Something isn’t right with Windows 10 testing

August 2016: Microsoft Has Broken Millions Of Webcams With Windows 10 Anniversary Update

Oct 2016: Flood of reports from people unable to install latest Windows update, resulting in an endless loop of repeated attempts

 

And disabling Windows Update before the v1809 Windows 10 update would have protected a system against all of these threats:

 

January 2018: Windows 10 will not start/boot after windows update

March 2018: Total Meltdown?

October 2018: Microsoft's latest Windows 10 update is reportedly wiping user data

October 2018: New Windows 10 1809 bug: Zip data-loss flaw is months old but Microsoft missed it

October 2018: HP users report BSOD after Tuesday patch

 

What's the difference between a piece of software that causes major OS and data problems called a virus and a piece of software that causes major OS and data problems called a patch?

 

Microsoft's security updates are themselves security threats, since some of them are deceptively labelled as security fixes when in reality they're spyware and data-harvestingware. The uncertainty inherently associated with Microsoft's patches due to Microsoft being a liar and cheat company is a security threat on its own.

 

I have become victim to many issues due to Windows 10 updates. I haven't fallen victim to any issue from disabling Windows Update in Windows 7 and 10, and doing so has surely spared me from many more issues.

 

Caring about system security is taking steps to ensure that the things that Microsoft Windows 10 updates are notorious for doing to people's systems can't happen to yours.

Nice essay, except I didn't talk about security in the general sense of the word. Take a step back to your original post. 

 

Quote

I've said it many times, and it's still worth saying: The only safe way to run Windows 10 is with Windows Update fully disabled, and preferably on the LTSC version. And, regardless of how it's run, Windows 10 is statistically the least-secure Windows OS to-date. So, better to just run Windows 7 or 8(.1) anyway.

The red part is NOT about the general meaning of security but cyber security, aka vulnerabilities. 

Complaining about vulnerabilities and disabling patches is by definition, hypocritical. 

[Delicieuxz]

29 minutes ago, mrthuvi said:

Nice essay, except I didn't talk about security in the general sense of the word. Take a step back to your original post. 

 

The red part is NOT about the general meaning of security but cyber security, aka vulnerabilities. 

Complaining about vulnerabilities and disabling patches is by definition, hypocritical. 

Not at all. A vulnerability is an avenue by which problematic software can get onto your system or by which your system can be meddled with in an unwanted or harmful manner. Therefore, an enabled Windows Update is itself a vulnerability.

 

Looking at personal experience of where more issues come from, I can see that an enabled Windows Update is a graver threat than all of Windows 10's other security vulnerabilities combined. Therefore, it is reasonable that Windows Update would be the first threat to be stopped.

[bcredeur97]

windows 10 still has plenty of bugs, and probably will have them for the forseeable future. especially because they are expected to release new features alongside bug fixes.. which ends up in more bugs. that's just how it works.