Nintendo wins lawsuit against Love Roms owner and succesfully wins 12 million+ dollars in damages

[EarthWormJM2]

Hey, We ALL knew that downloading ROMs is illegal. No one can say we did not know that, we can argue it til we are blue in the face, but the fact is, by law, it's illegal. I am all for game preservation and agree some laws need to be changed surrounding that, but it was only a matter of time before someone, Nintendo, Sony, Sega, EA, etc.. stepped up and took action. To be fair, most of the Nintendo ROMs that were downloaded were first party Nintendo games as those were unique to only Nintendo consoles, and a good portion of those first party games have been re-released in some manner (virtual console, remakes on handhelds, mini consoles, switch online NES console).

 

Most likely Nintendo is probably gearing up to have a full streaming service for it's NES and SNES library where you pay a subscription like Netflix. I could easily see that happening sooner than later, plus since Nintendo licensed almost every game on those consoles it wouldn't be too hard for them to get almost those entire libraries. As long as they don't over charge for it, I'd be willing to pay 5-10$ a month to have those entire libraries available to me, especially if they do it like the NES online console with online play, save states, nice UI, etc. Just imagine being able to play classic Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, or co-op Super Mario with friends over the internet, (I know this is currently possible with emulators), get them games back in the mainstream.

[TechyBen]

10 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Oh boy.. you better not read what else they have done in their past...

Hahaha, I know... but they WERE doing so well.

[GoodBytes]

59 minutes ago, Master Delta Chief said:

We shouldn't be waiting at all for them to come with a NES classic or whatever because waiting time is over. They should've solved this ROM 'issue' ages ago. If they weren't that incompetent, this situation wouldn't exist. Of course, I should not forget that they did put some games 'back' on the eShop, but that's still in some regard limited. 

 

And saying the fact that this is a reality, it shouldn't be at all. This is just not only hurting the consumer, but this guy's financial life as well most likely. 

 

53 minutes ago, TimeOmnivore said:

True, but we don't have any such system now. As such, Nintendo being able to take legal action against someone for making a product that is no longer reasonably available available again isn't justifiable. If Nintendo created such a system wherein the consumer had the option of obtaining all of their products legally, I'd be okay with them taking down someone distributing that content unofficially. If the consumer has no method, aside from piracy, to obtain content, then the companies who own said content shouldn't be able to do anything, as they've afforded the consumer no other choice.

 

Nintendo could easily create their own, official emulation+ROM storefront today and give consumers the ability to play and enjoy all of their old games today. But they don't, and that's entirely their fault, so they shouldn't be able to punish someone who does it for them. This entire situation is a problem of Nintendo's own making. When there are gaps in the market, people will rush to fill those gaps.

 

Timing of a product/service is everything... you know what happens when you are too ahead of the time... you get Microsoft. Example:

Everyone loves Netflix and Spotify or such subscription service. Want to know who started it all? Microsoft.

 

Example:

Back in 2006, Microsoft introduced unlimited music streaming, with millions of songs that until the very last couple of years, Spotify and other that came later finally been able to match, at a nominal fee per month. With different plans, including, 15$ per month, where you get unlimited music streaming and download, and at the end of the month, you got credits to buy DRM-FREE, yes, in high-quality lossless compressed 10 songs of your choice. Even the app was ahead of its time, with a really nice interface, introduced the world to Metro design look, fully GPU accelerated for perfectly smooth animations, transitions and music visuals, giving access to bios of every artists, and a discovery system that allows you to listen to music from any song or artists where it would fetch similar styles, look through bios and fetch songs or artists that got influences by and such.

 

End results? People didn't understand, didn't get it and flopped. People preferred to purchase their music through iTunes with DRM. so that they "own" the music they purchased. Yyyeaaa..oops.

 

Then once Netflix came along, and similar multiple services came out, now people started to be more open to it, and now start seeing value in it, and now, and only now, people get it.

 

Timing is everything.

If Nintendo feels that now is not the time, then now it isn't the time. You can't have a law that forces things. All it would end up is companies make a quarter-ass product, make 2 of them, and release it under the deadline, and go "There you see, we have a product", and kill it next week.

[EarthWormJM2]

44 minutes ago, TimeOmnivore said:

True, but we don't have any such system now. As such, Nintendo being able to take legal action against someone for making a product that is no longer reasonably available available again isn't justifiable. If Nintendo created such a system wherein the consumer had the option of obtaining all of their products legally, I'd be okay with them taking down someone distributing that content unofficially. If the consumer has no method, aside from piracy, to obtain content, then the companies who own said content shouldn't be able to do anything, as they've afforded the consumer no other choice.

 

Nintendo could easily create their own, official emulation+ROM storefront today and give consumers the ability to play and enjoy all of their old games today. But they don't, and that's entirely their fault, so they shouldn't be able to punish someone who does it for them. This entire situation is a problem of Nintendo's own making. When there are gaps in the market, people will rush to fill those gaps.

Just because it isn't available right now, doesn't mean that the creators don't still own the rights to that media. That is what copyright laws are for. Games aren't always sold, after a few years, they are no longer on store shelves or get pulled from digital stores (less likely now a days, but still happens). These laws need updating as they were not written with digital distribution and media preservation in mind. But is it fair to the creators and developers that after a few years they should no longer get paid if their IP is distributed without their permission? They may be planning a remake in the future like Crash and Spyro did. Or planning a franchise based off of one of those games, or a sequel. The only exception I would make is if the company that made the game no longer exists and no one has the rights to the game, then it should be available. but, this is why companies buy up rights to different IPs.

[EarthWormJM2]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Back in 2006, Microsoft introduced unlimited music streaming

OMG, I forgot about this!.... and my old Zune, RIP. I remember telling my friends how cool it was and they were all like " so it's just like iTunes"  lol

[TimeOmnivore]

4 minutes ago, EarthWormJM2 said:

But is it fair to the creators and developers that after a few years they should no longer get paid if their IP is distributed without their permission?

If they don't have any official means of distribution themselves, then yes, it absolutely should be fair game. If you don't offer people the means to obtain your product, you shouldn't have the right to complain when other people offer that means instead. At best, they should have the right to shut down those other means when they come out with an official distribution platform - but they shouldn't be able to collect on bullshit 'damages' for the time period in which the only method of obtaining their content was through illegitimate means.

[ARikozuM]

I think, after 20 years, ROM's of all games should be placed in archive for free use.  Games aren't usually supported for longer than 20 years. I don't consider servers as "support" since even I can make a server for a game, if needed. If a company is no longer meaningful work on a game after 20 years, the game should be available as many old DOS games are. 

 

The biggest issue with this case is that they settled. The LLC should have taken its sweet time fighting Nintendo for this. 

[Master Disaster]

16 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

I think, after 20 years, ROM's of all games should be placed in archive for free use.  Games aren't usually supported for longer than 20 years. I don't consider servers as "support" since even I can make a server for a game, if needed. If a company is no longer meaningful work on a game after 20 years, the game should be available as many old DOS games are. 

 

The biggest issue with this case is that they settled. The LLC should have taken its sweet time fighting Nintendo for this. 

It's really not that simple.

 

Trademark law is hugely complicated but one of the quirks of it is a company has a legal responsibility to do everything thats reasonably within their power to defend an IP from trademark abuse. If they don't defend an IP then the public can petition the trademark office/local court to have the IP become public domain and the owners lose all responsibility towsrds it.

 

Can you imagine Nintendo allowing Mario to become public property? Capcom allowing Mega Man?

 

That's the reason why companies get so fierce when defending IP against fan made content, it's actually more because of trademark than copyright.

 

By allowing a game to become freeware the IP owner actually risks losing rights to the entire IP.

[EarthWormJM2]

11 minutes ago, TimeOmnivore said:

If they don't have any official means of distribution themselves, then yes, it absolutely should be fair game. If you don't offer people the means to obtain your product, you shouldn't have the right to complain when other people offer that means instead. At best, they should have the right to shut down those other means when they come out with an official distribution platform - but they shouldn't be able to collect on bullshit 'damages' for the time period in which the only method of obtaining their content was through illegitimate means.

Everything you are arguing is covered by copyright laws. As long as the company is renewing their copyright on their own media, no one else is allowed to distribute said media by any means. Now I agree it is very shitty for a company to hold on to the copyright and not do anything with it, but it is their IP and they are free to do with it what they want as long as everything is in order. These laws do need to be adjusted for the times, but they are there to protect us as well as the companies. We lucked out with toys for bob acquiring Spyro and doing a great job on a remaster, but insomniac sold the rights to Spyro and that could have easily been picked up by a bad company that ruins Spyro and never distributes it again or it becomes fair use and we never get a proper Spyro again, just a million crappy ripoffs.

[williamcll]

Boy I sure would like to have 12 million dollars

[DrMacintosh]

Kinda want to get rid of my 3DS now? 

[BuckGup]

Because Nintendo is loosing so much money on games they haven't sold in decades...

[GoodBytes]

1 minute ago, williamcll said:

Boy I sure would like to have 12 million dollars

Like winning the lottery, you don't want.

You want a steady income that can sustain your lifestyle. Wining a big load of money, once, will not help at anything, and be a curse more than anything. You'll get a fancy home which you can't pay its taxes, you'll get a nice car, only to not be able to afford its maintenance, you want a fancy computer, but it will be outdated next month, and you'll get used to having this, and you don't have the income to continue to keep a system up to date, and so you wasted you money if you stopped, and so on.

[ARikozuM]

9 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

It's really not that simple.

 

Trademark law is hugely complicated but one of the quirks of it is a company has a legal responsibility to do everything thats reasonably within their power to defend an IP from trademark abuse. If they don't defend an IP then the public can petition the trademark office/local court to have the IP become public domain and the owners lose all responsibility towsrds it.

 

Can you imagine Nintendo allowing Mario to become public property? Capcom allowing Mega Man?

 

That's the reason why companies get so fierce when defending IP against fan made content, it's actually more because of trademark than copyright.

 

By allowing a game to become freeware the IP owner actually risks losing rights to the entire IP.

I'm not saying they should rights to all of Mario's IP. They shouldn't lose the right to the whole franchise, but the individual game should be put up for archive, especially if the media is prone to damage like floppies and discs have been.

 

They're going after creators that are taking an old format, ROM-hacks, and trying to take them down. Should the release of Super Mario Maker make ROM-hacks illegal? Hell NO! If anything, these creators are giving new support and life to an old format. Nintendo merely took a popular hobby (creating large, complex, and difficult levels) and profited from it. 

[GoodBytes]

3 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

I'm not saying they should rights to all of Mario's IP. They shouldn't lose the right to the whole franchise, but the individual game should be put up for archive, especially if the media is prone to damage like floppies and discs have been.

 

They're going after creators that are taking an old format, ROM-hacks, and trying to take them down. Should the release of Super Mario Maker make ROM-hacks illegal? Hell NO! If anything, these creators are giving new support and life to an old format. Nintendo merely took a popular hobby (creating large, complex, and difficult levels) and profited from it. 

Heumm no,. He wasn't making backup of ROMs for historical/archival purposes. He has done it for illegal distribution purposes promoting piracy by not setting up a system, approved by all publishers and studios to validate a consumer past purchase. (yes, I know it is logistically nearly impossible, but it is the legal way).

[ARikozuM]

Just now, GoodBytes said:

Heumm no,. He wasn't making backup of ROMs for historical/archival purposes. He has done it for illegal distribution purposes promoting piracy.

Nobody is going to buy a $100 cartridge that is broken, corroded, or incomplete. While piracy is frowned upon for newer games, it crosses a line with older media. They are no longer in availability. Nintendo loses no sales from "piracy" of these old games. Nintendo providing these on a handheld is not giving support to the original media. The laws need to change with the times. 

[TimeOmnivore]

36 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Like winning the lottery, you don't want.

You want a steady income that can sustain your lifestyle. Wining a big load of money, once, will not help at anything, and be a curse more than anything. You'll get a fancy home which you can't pay its taxes, you'll get a nice car, only to not be able to afford its maintenance, you want a fancy computer, but it will be outdated next month, and you'll get used to having this, and you don't have the income to continue to keep a system up to date, and so you wasted you money if you stopped, and so on.

To be fair, that only applies if you're completely shit with money and lack any capability to think long-term to any degree. You'd have to be a pretty big fucking idiot to do the things you described and spend so far above your means if you won (the equivalent of) the lottery that you go bankrupt. I, personally, would love enough money to be set for life without needing to waste time working instead of doing things I find actual value and fulfillment in.

[imreloadin]

There is a website, can't remember the name of it off hand, that buys old retro games and dumps the ROMs off of them and then rents out the ROM for a specified period of time online. They keep all physical copies of the games they have in their library and only rent out the ROM the max number of times that they have physical copies for. It's literally like a rental store but digital.

 

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Like winning the lottery, you don't want.

You want a steady income that can sustain your lifestyle. Wining a big load of money, once, will not help at anything, and be a curse more than anything. You'll get a fancy home which you can't pay its taxes, you'll get a nice car, only to not be able to afford its maintenance, you want a fancy computer, but it will be outdated next month, and you'll get used to having this, and you don't have the income to continue to keep a system up to date, and so you wasted you money if you stopped, and so on.

Yeah if they just treat it like they have that money to spend then it'll only ever be a one time finite amount that will run out over time. The key to not losing everything from a lottery win is to use that money to invest it in things that make you money. Buy businesses in your area that are profitable and invest in yourself (get an education or start your own business), for the love of god keep your day job though. Just because you win the lottery doesn't mean the normal rules of living just get thrown out the window . Pay off your current mortgage, car, other debts and then take the rest to a fiduciary financial advisor to plan out your next best steps.

[Suika]

Oh no, somebody was knowingly illegally distributing Nintendo's intellectual property. I am surprised that Nintendo wanted to protect their intellectual property, and not risk losing Japanese copyright protection over it from negligence!...

 

/s

 

The comments in these threads are always funny. It's only a shame that ROMs are getting harder and harder to come by and Nintendo isn't doing enough to keep their old IP playable and justifiably off of ROM websites.

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Like winning the lottery, you don't want.

You want a steady income that can sustain your lifestyle. Wining a big load of money, once, will not help at anything, and be a curse more than anything. You'll get a fancy home which you can't pay its taxes, you'll get a nice car, only to not be able to afford its maintenance, you want a fancy computer, but it will be outdated next month, and you'll get used to having this, and you don't have the income to continue to keep a system up to date, and so you wasted you money if you stopped, and so on.

Correction, you don't want a huge lump sump if you're financially irresponsible. A lump sump is great if you are -- you invest most of it in diversified accounts (with a decent amount in some low yield high security investment) and then only spend a reasonable amount.

[Trik'Stari]

5 hours ago, goodtofufriday said:

How can nintendo even prove they lost 12.3 mil from that particular website. Considering for most of that time there was no way to purchase thise games from nintendo. 

They can't. No one can. There is no evidence that piracy equates directly to sales lost.

 

 

Especially when half of what people are pirating isn't currently actually for sale from the IP owner.

[soldier_ph]

Get wrecked Cheater !

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Pascal... said:

Get wrecked Cheater !

Years will never heal this user’s wounds from purchasing a broken Earthbound cartridge for $300...

 

RIP

[Noctus]

4 hours ago, Minibois said:

Especially now that we found out about disc rot, we need ROM sites

Sorry WHAT?

[Master Delta Chief]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Timing of a product/service is everything... you know what happens when you are too ahead of the time... you get Microsoft. Example:

Everyone loves Netflix and Spotify or such subscription service. Want to know who started it all? Microsoft.

 

---

 

Timing is everything.

If Nintendo feels that now is not the time, then now it isn't the time. You can't have a law that forces things. All it would end up is companies make a quarter-ass product, make 2 of them, and release it under the deadline, and go "There you see, we have a product", and kill it next week.

Yes, timing of a service or product is an important topic and proves my point. If Nintendo decided to bring in more games into their market earlier and also actually advertises for it (which btw is something even more important), than ROM sites will slowly lose it's popularity. Though sites like that won't disappear from the internet (unless you have this shitty lawsuit).  However, the service regarding MS, was a rather poor example due to the fact that it was most likely due to the low popularity of the service, not exactly the timing itself. 

 

Regarding that law part, no, you obviously can't have a law that forces things or whatever you meant. But this entire circus is something that shouldn't have happened in the first place either.