YouTube are deleting game hacking and modding channels

[Master Disaster]

Users on Reddit first noticed that a few of the bigger game hacking and modding channels have disappeared and this is weeks after Rockstar and Epic games both went ham against cheaters. Epic infamously sued a 13 year old child and last week Take 2 had an Australian man arrested and all his computer gear taken away from him.

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Recently, we reported on the news of Rockstar cracking down on people making GTA V Game mods/cheats, going as far as raiding their homes with police and dragging them into court, with one modder already pleading guilty to the charges and now YouTube is cracking down on any channel that has videos 'showing' people how to use programs like x64dg to make 'game cheats' or 'mods' and flat out terminating all their videos, channel itself, and does not look like YT is going to backdown on this, refusing so far to listen to the growing backlash over their Dalek actions.

YouTube has a complaint called CTM or Circumvention of Technological Measures which is supposed to be used if users are

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evading a software’s licensing protocol. This can mean serial numbers, keygens, passwords, and other methods to hack software or games.

Now under YouTubes own definition CTM means

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What is the difference between CTM and copyright?

 

CTM is a tool that will give users the means to access software. Copyright is concerned with the depiction of the software or the means to acquire it. If the software’s interface is in the video, or there is a download link to the software in the video or video description, you may wish to file a copyright takedown notice.

A CTM claim is appropriate when the infringed material isn’t present in the video (or directly linked to), but the video offers a way for users to access it illegitimately.

So correct me if I'm wrong here but hacking a game you own has absolutely nothing to do with what CTM is designed to cover, right?

 

Anyway channel owners are receiving the following message

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We'd like to inform you that we've received a Circumvention of Technologies complaint regarding your YouTube account. Upon review, we've determined that activity in your account violates YouTube's Terms of Service. As a result, we've terminated your account. If you would like to appeal the suspension, please submit this form.

https://www.maxconsole.com/threads/youtube-is-terminating-game-hacking-modding-cheats-channels.49580/

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6156383?hl=

 

Once again big business is using a rule in a way it was never intended to be used to silence something they disagree with. Don't get me wrong, I'll be happy if they manage to stop online cheating (which btw they never will) but it's dangerous when they're allowed to use rules and laws outside of their intended scope to silence people they disagree with.

[asus killer]

cheats yes, go after them

hacking a game/software for piracy (keygens, etc...) it's fair

but mods, what the...

[KuJoe]

25 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

So correct me if I'm wrong here but hacking a game you own has absolutely nothing to do with what CTM is designed to cover, right?

The problem is that the users aren't hacking/modding their game, they are hacking/modding the server and other user's games. This is where CTM comes in and where the developers have a legal foot to stand on. I'm willing to bet if the users were posting videos of character generators or game editors for single player games then they'd be fine, but once they start messing with other users or the server they've crossed the line.

[KuJoe]

31 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

CTM is a tool that will give users the means to access software.

 

32 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

A CTM claim is appropriate when the infringed material isn’t present in the video (or directly linked to), but the video offers a way for users to access it illegitimately.

While I do agree that YouTube needs to work on their wording, it can be argued the server-side content or packets that are being edited are considered "software" and using hacks/tools to "access it illegitimately" falls under the CTM guidelines since by default users should not have access to that "software".

[KuJoe]

33 minutes ago, asus killer said:

but mods, what the...

Unfortunately depending on the community the word "modder" and "hacker" are interchangeable. When I think of modding, I think of games like Fallout 4 and Skyrim where people make addons for the game, but in games like GTA V "modders" are people who have the ability to edit public servers, break other player's characters, and crash user's games. I don't know how this term has changed so much over the years, but I figured I'd provide some context.

[Canada EH]

Hackintosh

P2P

Pirating

Hacking products, taking product apart

Repair vids

 

Its a bag of worms!

 

What about violence, and vehicles speeding.

 

Take it all down I say!

[leadeater]

Just now, Canada EH said:

Its a bag of worms!

Don't worry, bags of worms will be banned too 

[GoldenLag]

54 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

inb4 TF2x10 servers ._.

Did someone say higher_tower x10 randomizer?

[asus killer]

if i were a YT competitor or someone wanting a share of their pie this is amazing, i can't even remember all they have censured/removed by now.

[Taf the Ghost]

40 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Don't worry, bags of worms will be banned too 

Those who worry about the banning of bags of worms will be banned as well.

[Taf the Ghost]

20 minutes ago, asus killer said:

if i were a YT competitor or someone wanting a share of their pie this is amazing, i can't even remember all they have censured/removed by now.

YT exists in an illegal corporate space but through enough lobbying and institutional utility, they've been allowed to exist. There's several different layers to it, but the gist goes:

1) Google has propped up YT for years, to the tune of at least 10+ billion USD in losses

2) YT would, under US Copyright Law, be destroyed for violations if the major IP Rights holders actually went to court over it

3) Because of these two aspects, all of the parties generally agree to leave YT in place because it's more useful to everyone to have a centralized location

 

It's literally "Well, it's Illegal, but it's too useful to shut down". That's why no one can really compete.

[D13H4RD]

So, what about game modding as we know it? 

 

Like Skyrim, aka "Modding Simulator" 

[KuJoe]

15 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

So, what about game modding as we know it? 

 

Like Skyrim, aka "Modding Simulator" 

This should have zero impact to them.

[Sauron]

3 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

So correct me if I'm wrong here but hacking a game you own has absolutely nothing to do with what CTM is designed to cover, right?

If DRM laws made any sense, you'd be right. Sadly, they don't. It's a bit of a gray area in many countries, but... who's going to fight rockstar in court by themselves? Now, granted, I don't think much of online cheaters but... it seems to me rockstar should simply do a better job of banning them than going after the creators of said cheats legally.

[jagdtigger]

48 minutes ago, KuJoe said:

This should have zero impact to them.

Thats the keyword right there. They should be fine, unless some competitor files a false claim then the reported youtuber is done for... (I would bet my bottom dollar on that this is same as DMCA claims, fully automatic without any sanity checks.)

[Aetheria]

59 minutes ago, Sauron said:

If DRM laws made any sense, you'd be right. Sadly, they don't. It's a bit of a gray area in many countries, but... who's going to fight rockstar in court by themselves? Now, granted, I don't think much of online cheaters but... it seems to me rockstar should simply do a better job of banning them than going after the creators of said cheats legally.

The only time publishers should be able to go after hack authors is when they're distributing the publisher's code, which should generally be easy for hackers to avoid. Just ship a patcher, not modified game assets.

 

This is like someone going after the devs of Low Orbit Ion Cannon after a bunch of 'chan' idiots use it to DDoS their website.

[Master Disaster]

4 hours ago, KuJoe said:

 

While I do agree that YouTube needs to work on their wording, it can be argued the server-side content or packets that are being edited are considered "software" and using hacks/tools to "access it illegitimately" falls under the CTM guidelines since by default users should not have access to that "software"

I'm not 100% sure I agree that hacking an online game is akin to hacking a server and stealing information, especially when the game you're referring to uses local memory to store variables that can affect an online match. The hackers are not intercepting packets or altering data on a remote server, they're effectively memory editing their own computer then forcing the client to send the edited data on to the server which the server sends on to other players.

 

So no, I completely disagree with your assessment but besides which, CTM is designed to specifically deal with licensing avoidance, it's clearly worded on YouTubes own page.

[KuJoe]

1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

I'm not 100% sure I agree that hacking an online game is akin to hacking a server and stealing information, especially when the game you're referring to uses local memory to store variables that can affect an online match. The hackers are not intercepting packets or altering data on a remote server, they're effectively memory editing their own computer then forcing the client to send the edited data on to the server which the server sends on to other players.

 

So no, I completely disagree with your assessment but besides which, CTM is designed to specifically deal with licensing avoidance, it's clearly worded on YouTubes own page.

I highly doubt Rockstar is that horrible at development where a player can edit server settings from the client-side without touching the server in any way. Also once the user start editing other users they are crossing over to the server in some way thus no longer confined to the game they purchased.

 

That being said, the wording of the CTM policy is bad and needs to be fixed. I outlined about how it could potentially be interpreted which is the whole problem because it leaves humans to decided what the words mean. If you read it one way and I read it another then the wording needs to be corrected.

[Master Disaster]

9 minutes ago, KuJoe said:

I highly doubt Rockstar is that horrible at development where a player can edit server settings from the client-side without touching the server in any way. Also once the user start editing other users they are crossing over to the server in some way thus no longer confined to the game they purchased.

 

That being said, the wording of the CTM policy is bad and needs to be fixed. I outlined about how it could potentially be interpreted which is the whole problem because it leaves humans to decided what the words mean. If you read it one way and I read it another then the wording needs to be corrected.

Well you're wrong, that's exactly how online trainers in GTA V work.

 

All GTA O variables are stored locally, player tells their game KuJoe is now a seagull, their games updates the local variable and sends it on to the server, server changes the variable online and forwards it to all other clients and suddenly KuJoe is now a seagull.

 

Heck when the game first came out it didn't even use memory pointers to try and hide memory addresses and people were using Cheat Engine to memory edit the game.

 

I'm actually gonna be very interested to see if R* go with local variables for RDR O when that hits PC, my money would be very firmly on them not. That said what other way would there be for them to do it?

[iLostMyXbox21]

5 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

his computer gear taken away from him.

so he got grounded he probably saw the cops pull up and kinda just

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[pipnina]

This is why the free software movement is important. Sadly it has only reached games in the form of a few game engines like godot, and games like SuperTuxKart.

[Bcat00]

What’s the issue here?

 

from what I can tell, the channels that got the ban hammer were all making videos to hack multiplayer games in some way and some even had their own site to monetize on the hacking programs.

 

I say ban them all and not miss a single soul, even if some innocent channels get caught

[EnergyEclipse]

31 minutes ago, Bcat00 said:

I say ban them all and not miss a single soul, even if some innocent channels get caught

[Misanthrope]

6 hours ago, KuJoe said:

The problem is that the users aren't hacking/modding their game, they are hacking/modding the server and other user's games. This is where CTM comes in and where the developers have a legal foot to stand on. I'm willing to bet if the users were posting videos of character generators or game editors for single player games then they'd be fine, but once they start messing with other users or the server they've crossed the line.

That sounds nice in theory.

 

In practice, youtube never reviews shit manually so it is common practice to have say, Nazis false flag videos for community guidelines strikes when all the video did was (rightfully) criticize and mock their worldviews.

 

All because Youtube just doesn't has the manpower to manually review shit and Nazis were smart enough to get enough numbers to overwhelm a smaller channel that doesn't matters and nobody cares about so there's no backlash against youtube (that is, not enough backlash for them to react)

 

So just like community guidelines and DMCA guidelines and rules this is a novel and productive idea in theory and just another tool that opens up more opportunities for abuse in practice.

 

Youtube's problem is that they never thought about policing content and now they have so much of it, it is literally impossible to control: Scandals and legal battles will continue to happen until their inevitable implosion with enough consecutive mishaps get them.

[Doobeedoo]

As far as hacking specially online I can see that. But modding like what. Once again, shows how YT is anti gaming in general on it's platform and not only for gaming content vids but also livestreaming not taken seriously. Oh and YT gaming shutting down. Ahahhaha so funny, not like I didn't saw that coming.