I have a Dream...The Dreamcast SFF build!

[goose1969x]

Awesome build!

 

I am actually currently looking into alternative cooling mods for a 1060 I have. I am debating shaving off some of my heatsink to fit inside my case (Chopin), but your CPU cooler method made me curious. Did you get a chance to test the low profile cooler on your 1060 before you sold it?

[Ross Siggers]

6 hours ago, goose1969x said:

Awesome build!

 

I am actually currently looking into alternative cooling mods for a 1060 I have. I am debating shaving off some of my heatsink to fit inside my case (Chopin), but your CPU cooler method made me curious. Did you get a chance to test the low profile cooler on your 1060 before you sold it?

Unfortunately not, the mounting holes were a completely different layout and actually rectangular, not a square pattern. If I'd had more time I probaly would have worked something out.

There;s all sorts of coolers you could try though, I suspect a slightly larger one would suit the 1060 better, but cooling performance is far from bad with my current setup.

[Valaris]

Hell of a build you got there! Any plans to do something with VMU's as a side project afterwards?

[Ross Siggers]

6 hours ago, Valaris said:

Hell of a build you got there! Any plans to do something with VMU's as a side project afterwards?

Although it's not pc related, I have been curious to try and perform the vmu back-light mod that I've seen floating around. I already have a controller I customised myself, but as far as pc stuff goes, no plans

 

 

Basic stuff; colour change, smoothed the 'START' text, cleaned, regreased, and with a PS4 thumbstick, which is sooo much better. There's a guy out there making wireless controllers with battery percentage etc, viewable via the vmu screen, which is sick. 

 

The vmu could make a cool hot swappable hard drive, if you could find an ssd with a small enough pcb to fit But that's not something I'd be looking at. 

[Valaris]

3 hours ago, Ross Siggers said:

The vmu could make a cool hot swappable hard drive, if you could find an ssd with a small enough pcb to fit But that's not something I'd be looking at. 

It's not as cool but you could always go with a really capacity USB drive.

[Ross Siggers]

It's been brought to my attention by a fellow small form factor builder, that the H110S2 board that I'm using, shares bandwith lanes with the SATA headers on the board...so using an traditional SSD might limit the bandwith I get for my graphics card, via the M.2.

 

So I'm going to go with an M.2 SSD, in the spot where I had my WiFi card. Hopefully this will prevent bottlenecks, but it's slightly unclear. It'll clear up wires inside the case, and I should be able to put a Wifi dongle into one of the usb ports at the front of the motherboard, as there's a cavity behind the controller ports. So there's a silver lining here, I suppose.

 

Apparently the guy I was talking to had the same bad tech support experience with ASUS, that I did before I started this build(I asked the max power I could put through the DC barrel)

[Ross Siggers]

*blows cobwebs off of thread* Well after a longer break than expected, I finally managed to get my head around the power solution for this build, with a LOT of help from the guys at SFFforum.

I was originally under the impression I could pass the power for my motherboard, through my psu, and use it's 12v output to power the board. But...it appears that's a typo in the manual for my motherboard; it in fact only supports 19v. So the proposed layout now splits the incoming power into two seperate leads, one to the psu, and one directly to the motherboard. This works because unlike ATX, STX has DC barrel on it and the motherboard isn't necessarily powered by the psu. Most of the time in builds that use them, there isn't a dedicated psu at all!

There was actually more confusion and frustration for all parties than that summary expresses...but there's a working concept in place now so onwards and upwards  



- The external brick powers both the board, and the Mini(pico psu)

- The motherboard has the M.2 riser for the graphics card, obviously
- The gpu's PCIe, and the supplementary power for the riser, both come from the Mini(pico psu)

- The Mini(pico psu) is plugged into a small pcb that, when synced to the motherboard with a 12v signal, can turn off the gpu

The last step is necessary because when feeding the gpu with direct 12v power, essentially stepped down directly out of the external brick...it doesn't like to turn off full with the rest of the system. The Add2psu just jumps 2 pins on the 24-pin connector, telling the Mini(pico psu) to turn on or off. They're normally used in beastly ATX computers, to run more than one psu.

I have a few things to buy, like an Add2psu and some connectors. Most notably a new, better quality riser cable. But hopefully I can lay this all out on a bench soon and get it working. 

[Ross Siggers]

 

Fitment/beauty shots...no reason, just because my enthusiasm is back for this project a little bit  

 

[CiBi]

Awesome job man, this shot in particular looks really cool

3 hours ago, Ross Siggers said:

 

Fitment/beauty shots...no reason, just because my enthusiasm is back for this project a little bit  

 

 

[Ross Siggers]

1 hour ago, CiBi said:

Awesome job man, this shot in particular looks really cool

 

Cheers buddy. And it really does, doesn't it! The gpu placement wasn't stylistic either, there's actually a reason for having it that way, the fan is at the tallest part of the case

[Ross Siggers]

Another unexpected break, I had to fly to Canada at very short notice last week.

 

But I'm back, and my parts have arrived; an Add2psu, a couple of DC barrel connectors, and actually an SSD too, a Samsung Evo 850 m.2. This was a bit of an impulse purchase, I knew I needed one but was't going to get it yet. So now I have to make two cables;

 

1. Adapt the female barrel connector that came with my HDplex, to have two outputs. Basically split off a second lead, with a male DC barrel on the end, for the motherboard.
2. A signal cable for the add2psu that'll source from the chassis fan header. So another splitter just a bit more intricate because it's only splitting some of the wires, and it's using different connectors, etc...

I'll test these all out on a bench, and then probably shorten them so they'll fit in the case without too much slack. It's all got to be as minimal clutter as possible.

 

I'm also debating whether I should fork out $$$ for some low profile DDR4 SODIMM's... they're a very hard form factor to come by, but I know someone who's said he can get me some directly from Innodisk, not normal retail channels. If I get them, the ram will be lower than the CPU cooler, and that means I can push the motherboard down an extra 5mm or so towards the floor, which is a huge amount in this build! 

unfortunately I'm running 2x4Gb dual channel at the moment....and the low profile is only available in 8Gb sticks, at $80 each  So if i wanna still have two sticks, I really have to decide if the $160 outlay tos wap them, is worth it. having mocked up with the gpu literally resting on top of the motherboard, it already touches the lid...so I may have to bite the bullet.

[trevb0t]

Very cool thread! 

Obviously an older one where most of your hardware is bought, but BitWit did a great video on a teeny tiny pc. Part ideas could certainly be looked for there if you're stumped.

[DECLO]

So a great work man. It's so clean

I looked for doing it on a dreamcast but finally I did it in PS2. 

Next time we should look for an APU ryzen 2400g or next gen

Well done!!! 

[Ross Siggers]

@trevb0t How old we talking? I remember him building that tiny PC and gaming in Walmart using a TV or something, was it before that?

@DECLO cheers buddy! You build is sick, the fact you can still use the dualshocks is awesome. You're definitely better at wiring than I am too, I'm struggling to solder the few small cables I actually need to make. Possibly because my iron sucks as well though.

The extra room for activities in a PS2 makes ALL the difference, I've had to make some stupid compromises to get things the way they are here, and I've not even hard mounted my power delivery stuff yet  I thought about a PS2 as my next build, I'd have to look into the advantages of going ITX, because I'm tempted to stick with STX to give me more space inside.

[DECLO]

For sure man, the extra room of the PS2 make all the difference but IT IS A DREAMCAST . You did it !!!! 

 

Keep going on STX, I will go on STX too (thx for tips) but maybe with APU... Too much time and problems with a GPU my friend . 

[Ross Siggers]

@DECLO They actually recently released the first AM4 STX board, a couple of months after I bought mine Intel based one. I was always planning a dedicated gpu, but that was still a little annoying to hear. Ryzen based APU systems would be perfect for extreme small form factors.

@Mr. horse Height. Anything else would have been too tall, with a fan-over-heatsink layout. Because of the fan submerged into the fins of the heatsink, as it stands, the RAM is taller than the cpu cooler right now. But with new low-profile RAM modules, soon that'll change, and I'll have a little more space vertically. It's actually kind of perfect that I could fit the same cooler on the gpu too, because at that height off the pcb it's probably the most effective solution around.

[Ross Siggers]

@Mr. horse I'll double check that, thanks for the heads up  Although when I ordered the second cooler for the gpu...they mistakenly sent me two and weren't bothered about a return, so I have a spare of the Silverstone as well!  

The balance of airflow and sleeper aesthetics is a real killer, that's for sure. With it being open backed, and with an uprated fan upfront, hopefully it'll be quiet enough in day-to-day useage. When gaming the lid will be off, there's no way around it. SFF cases are normally completely perforated. Consoles....are not  

[Ross Siggers]

@Mr. horse yeah they were originally going to be USB ports, but now they're being left open for a tiny bit more venitllation. I think removing it or replacing it would be an unacceptable compromise to the sleeper look

[Ross Siggers]

@Mr. horse I may sacrifice the original console's PCB so I can still plug a controller into port 1 for aesthetics, and leave the rest blank  

[Ross Siggers]

A small update, I received my cables etc, but I'm struggling to solder my new power cable because of the heavier gauge wiring; my soldering iron kit is 

U T T E R  T R A S H 

 

So I ordered some new solder and flux, hopefully this will help. Otherwise it'll be time for a new iron.

 

[Ross Siggers]

I spoke to an independant electronics shop, and they advised that I don't need super heavy duty wires...I was paranoid about it being a power lead, but in reality it'll only be drawing small amounts. So they soldered me up a cable, if I'd known just how skinny eh wiring was going to be, I'd have just done it myself....

ANYWAY....

It's working, as per the diagram on the previous page. input power being split between the motherboard and the pico psu.I have no single PCIe plug graphics cards, only dual plug ones, so I couldn't set it up exactly as it would be...but I powered the SSD and the gpu riser using the pico, which is a proof of concept. The trigger wire works too, telling the psu to turn on and off with the system. I'm a happy chappy  

Further update with pictures coming over the rest of the weekend hopefully. Now I can start finalising component locations, and dremeling the case, which is the part of the process I enjoy far more  

[Ross Siggers]

So, I got my power cable made up, to avoid having to mess with the very neat original cables, we soldered to the underside of the pcb. It's a pretty neat job.

 

 

In the next picture, you can see I've got the board powering everything using my new cable. The riser card, and the ssd are both powered by the on board Sata power header in this configuration. Just to check the cable worked to be honest, in reality there wouldn't be that many parts drawing power through the board itself. The next step is offloading those two things to the KMPKT Mini.

 

 

I don't have any suitable gpu's to test with, only the slot-powered 750 right now. So for proof of concept, I'm going to power the aforementioned riser and ssd using the Sata header on the KMPKT Mini. Just to prove that it works.

 

To signal the Mini to turn on and off with the system, it needs a 12v trigger signal. That's where my beautiful, temporary, non-soldered cable comes into play! It goes from the motherboard fan header, taking 12v, and goes to the molex plug on the Add2psu, which is an immitation 24-pin that holds the KMPKT Mini. The relay on this is what tells the Mini to turn on and off. Also...it holds it upright and should help with mounting  

 

 

And this last picture is the system successfully powered using it's twin-source layout; You can see the ssd and the riser cable are now both powered using the black cable, which is drawing it's sata power from the KMPKT. 

The next step is to work out my M.2 slots...because I realised that my storage and riser are both full length M.2's and I only have one full length slot...the one below is a stubby one for wifi cards etc...

[Ross Siggers]

Two updates in one weekend? This is unprecedented!  

I realised I can't use my M.2 SSD, which is a shame. I kind of overlooked the fact that only one of the M.2 slots is keyed the right way; The board has two slots but the lower one is specifically for WiFi cards, and has a different style of M.2 pinout. So If anyone wants a 500gb Samsung 850 Evo, and you're in the UK...slide into my DM's   

 

Thankfully, the 840 Evo out of my old PC was only a 250gb so I knew it would be smaller than the case it was in. And it was! So I'm still using a relatively small drive...shame about having to run extra cables though. It'll mount on the floor of the case by the exhaust fan, which isn't really in the way of anything thankfully.

 

 

 

Seeing as I'm not using the hinges on the lid anymore(it'll be held on with magnets if you recall), that means I can cut away more of the case on the top and rear, making the back of the case truly, 100% open. Every little helps when it comes to cooling this damn thing. I also removed the last remaining plastic flanges and stems inside the case that were left over from removed components, and weren't necessary.

 

 

The main task today was to try and get the pico fitted into the box section on the left, formerly the modem housing. I didn't put it right in the back corner, as there are cables coming off both ends, and the power plug will be coming out of that corner. So I shifted it forwards slightly. The add2psu that it's plugged into gives it a little extra height, which in the end was beneficial for putting the connectors juuuust above the remaining plastic shelf. There's also a cavity behind it still, which will be perfect for power cable management; even if I shorten them as much as possible, there'll still be some slack to hide away!

Anyway, I'll let the results speak for themselves. It came out so fucking perfect....

 

 

 

 

 

I was worried about how close it was going to be to the motherboard, so I refitted that and the fan, to see what it was like. 

 

I mean...it fits but it's BLOODY close. I'm a little worried about the heatsink warming up and damaging the edge of the PCB. So I either have to push the KMPKT a teeeeeny tiiiiny bit further back which would be hard, or angling it outwards at the bottom, and lean it inwards at the top. That'll give a little bit of breathing room...but look really ugly? I actually love neatness and aesthetics even internally, so that's a harder decision than you'd think. It can move nearer the wall if I cut the little plastic clasps from the outside of the connectors. Which doesn't bother me too much, the fitment is tight enough that they shouldn't work loose.

Basically, I've done sooooo much to fit the motherboard where it is, moving that isn't an option.

 

Anyway, take a look at these shots. Does anyone think they're as beautiful as I do? >.> 

[Ross Siggers]

Testing a few things out on the bench... It'd be rude to not christen this system with a Dreamcast game wouldn't it  
 

[DECLO]

It's feel like you're pretty close to  this dream, isn't it? ahah