64 core AMD Rome CPU

[Fasauceome]

2 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

its 8 cores per die, ccx core count will probably stay the same 

8 cores per die would mean they would have to add an extra die to the consumer chip, not likely. I'm pretty sure the article described 8 cores for the ccx, up from 4.

[cj09beira]

1 minute ago, fasauceome said:

8 cores per die would mean they would have to add an extra die to the consumer chip, not likely. I'm pretty sure the article described 8 cores for the ccx, up from 4.

go read it again, the main thing of zen 2 IS the fact that it only has 8 cores per die to allow for much much better yields than what a 16 core would give (all this has nothing to do with the ccxs)

[The Benjamins]

1 hour ago, fasauceome said:

8 cores per die would mean they would have to add an extra die to the consumer chip, not likely. I'm pretty sure the article described 8 cores for the ccx, up from 4.

They should have enough space for 2 core dies and 1 mainstream IO die.

That would also allow for future APUs to be 1 core die, 1 GPU die and 1 IO die

[Crunchy Dragon]

Not that I didn't see this when I first decided to buy my Ryzen 5 1600, but I could definitely see myself sticking with AMD for a good long while.

[Fasauceome]

1 minute ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Not that I didn't see this when I first decided to buy my Ryzen 5 1600, but I could definitely see myself sticking with AMD for a good long while.

And I don't see why not, socket support through 2020 is a thing of beauty.

[Taf the Ghost]

5 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Not that I didn't see this when I first decided to buy my Ryzen 5 1600, but I could definitely see myself sticking with AMD for a good long while.

 

5 hours ago, fasauceome said:

And I don't see why not, socket support through 2020 is a thing of beauty.

Given the talk about Zen3 being socket compatible, on Server, we might see AM4 last until the 2022 range. We should get an AM4+ with PCIe 4.0 at some point on desktop, but a nice X370 board might be taking flagship CPUs from AMD until 2021 at this rate. I originally thought it was just going to be the Zen2 APUs that'd show up on AM4 in 2020, but the current roadmap doesn't have any reason to end compatibility until PCIe 5.0/DDR5. There isn't a new USB spec for a while and a AM4+ with PCIe 4.0 is all that's actually needed.

 

Kind of fascinating how this has played out.

[Fasauceome]

3 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

 

Given the talk about Zen3 being socket compatible, on Server, we might see AM4 last until the 2022 range. We should get an AM4+ with PCIe 4.0 at some point on desktop, but a nice X370 board might be taking flagship CPUs from AMD until 2021 at this rate. I originally thought it was just going to be the Zen2 APUs that'd show up on AM4 in 2020, but the current roadmap doesn't have any reason to end compatibility until PCIe 5.0/DDR5. There isn't a new USB spec for a while and a AM4+ with PCIe 4.0 is all that's actually needed.

 

Kind of fascinating how this has played out.

Well DDR5 is due for when AM4 exits production

[Taf the Ghost]

1 minute ago, fasauceome said:

Well DDR5 is due for when AM4 exits production

Right. Zen3/Milan first shows up in Late 2020. (AMD is going Server First with their designs.) Which means it shows up on Desktop in 2021. It won't be on DDR5. I'm a little surprised by that, but, looking at Intel's roadmap as well, it seems the Industry is going to slow roll over to DDR5. So, even for AMD, the earliest we're likely to see DDR5 is late 2021, more than likely 2022. 

 

The other little thing is that PCIe 5.0 will need different trace approaches for motherboards, so the transition there in the industry is going to probably be slower than expected.

[Fasauceome]

1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Right. Zen3/Milan first shows up in Late 2020. (AMD is going Server First with their designs.) Which means it shows up on Desktop in 2021. It won't be on DDR5. I'm a little surprised by that, but, looking at Intel's roadmap as well, it seems the Industry is going to slow roll over to DDR5. So, even for AMD, the earliest we're likely to see DDR5 is late 2021, more than likely 2022. 

 

The other little thing is that PCIe 5.0 will need different trace approaches for motherboards, so the transition there in the industry is going to probably be slower than expected.

Do you foresee a split compatibility then, some AM4+ boards that support last gen and some don't?

[Taf the Ghost]

13 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

Do you foresee a split compatibility then, some AM4+ boards that support last gen and some don't?

They might, but what technical reason would they have to? AMD has supported some sockets for a very long time in the past, so AM4 is looking like another one of those. Now, I do expect they'll stop producing 300 & 400 series chipsets when they move to AM4+ and they might not maintain forward compatibility for very long, but backwards compatiability should be able to be maintained for a while with just firmware updates on the boards.

 

AMD's designs being completely SoCs means as long as they can connect out from the pins, it's not that hard to keep the compatibility. 

[Crunchy Dragon]

4 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Given the talk about Zen3 being socket compatible, on Server, we might see AM4 last until the 2022 range. We should get an AM4+ with PCIe 4.0 at some point on desktop, but a nice X370 board might be taking flagship CPUs from AMD until 2021 at this rate. I originally thought it was just going to be the Zen2 APUs that'd show up on AM4 in 2020, but the current roadmap doesn't have any reason to end compatibility until PCIe 5.0/DDR5. There isn't a new USB spec for a while and a AM4+ with PCIe 4.0 is all that's actually needed.

 

Kind of fascinating how this has played out.

After a couple years, I could see myself snagging a new board just to keep up with the standards.

 

Last I checked though, PCIe 4.0 and 5.0 are a thing, but nothing uses them yet because 3.0 has yet to be fully saturated by even a graphics cards, seeing as even a high card can go down to PCIe Gen3 x8 and still run without a hitch.

 

EDIT: PCIe Gen5 and 4 are a thing.

Quote

On November 29, 2011, PCI-SIG preliminarily announced PCI Express 4.0,^[50] providing a 16 GT/s bit rate that doubles the bandwidth provided by PCI Express 3.0, while maintaining backward and forward compatibility in both software support and used mechanical interface.^[51] PCI Express 4.0 specs will also bring OCuLink-2, an alternative to Thunderbolt connector. OCuLink version 2 will have up to 16 GT/s (8 GB/s total for ×4 lanes),^[29] while the maximum bandwidth of a Thunderbolt 3 connector is 5 GB/s. Additionally, active and idle power optimizations are to be investigated.

In August 2016, Synopsys presented a test machine running PCIe 4.0 at the Intel Developer Forum. Their IP has been licensed to several firms planning to present their chips and products at the end of 2016.^[35]

PCI Express 4.0 was officially announced on June 8, 2017, by PCI-SIG.^[52] The spec includes improvements in flexibility, scalability, and lower-power.

NETINT Technologies introduced the first NVMe SSD based on PCIe 4.0 on July 17, 2018, ahead of Flash Memory Summit 2018^[53]

Broadcom announced on 12th Sept. 2018 the first 200 Gbit Ethernet Controller with PCIe 4.0.^[54]

 

In June 2017, PCI-SIG preliminarily announced the PCI Express 5.0 specification.^[52] Bandwidth is expected to increase to 32 GT/s, yielding 63 GB/s in each direction in a 16 lane configuration. It is expected to be standardized in 2019.

On June 5th, 2018, the PCI SIG released version 0.7 of the PCIe 5.0 specification to its members.^[55]

PLDA announced the availability of their XpressRICH5 PCIe 5.0 Controller IP based on draft 0.7 of the PCIe 5.0 specification on the same day.^[56][57]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express

 

Expected to be standardized in 2019, and we don't even really have PCIe 4.0 even while 2018 is almost over. I'm really interested to see how this plays out.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 minute ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

After a couple years, I could see myself snagging a new board just to keep up with the standards.

 

Last I checked though, PCIe 4.0 and 5.0 are a thing, but nothing uses them yet because 3.0 has yet to be fully saturated by even a graphics cards, seeing as even a high card can go down to PCIe Gen3 x8 and still run without a hitch.

PCIe 4.0 requires a bit closer tracers to the socket, but PCIe 5.0 will require some significant overhauls for the way traces are done. PCIe 5.0 spec will come down in 2019. We might be seeing different CPU layouts for PCIe 5.0, but we'll have to wait to see what happens. On Desktop, it doesn't mean much of anything. AMD wasn't wrong with the 24 PCIe 3.0 lanes to work with for the normal user.

 

USB 3.2 should show up soon among the motherboards, but Type-C has been a slow adoption. There just isn't anything really new to add to a motherboard until we change memory standards. 

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Last I checked though, PCIe 4.0 and 5.0 are a thing, but nothing uses them yet because 3.0 has yet to be fully saturated by even a graphics cards, seeing as even a high card can go down to PCIe Gen3 x8 and still run without a hitch.

More of a server thing, faster PCIe standards allow the very high end network cards (100Gb/400Gb) to work in smaller slots, 400Gb barely works in a PCIe 5.0 x16 slot and that doesn't even exist yet. PCIe 4.0 allows 100Gb card to be used in x8 slots rather than 3.0 x16 slots.

 

This means you can have more devices in the server as each one uses less lanes. Lane usage adds up rather quickly; 6 NVMe 24 lanes, HBA/RAID card 4 lanes, dual 10Gb/25Gb/40Gb cards 8 or 16 lanes, 4 GPUs 64 lanes which is 100/108 lanes and you might need more than that if you need Infiniband or some other kind of higher end dual stack networking.

[Drak3]

10 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Last I checked though, PCIe 4.0 and 5.0 are a thing, but nothing uses them yet because 3.0 has yet to be fully saturated by even a graphics cards, seeing as even a high card can go down to PCIe Gen3 x8 and still run without a hitch.

For consumer workloads, yes.

 

Otherwise, you have the benefit @leadeater mentioned, and co-processors can saturate PCIe 3.0 x16 under certain workloads that deal with alot of data transfer relative to the work that actually needs computation.