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US senator's proposed data privacy law could fine company execs $5 million and send them to prison for 20 years

Delicieuxz
Message added by Crunchy Dragon

Reminder to keep this non-political

2 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I'm sitting in a dark hotel room with a hangover. Woke up an hour early (or late?) thanks to the time change and my seeming inability to sleep more than 4-6 hours straight. Got drunk last night, had a massive steak on the company last night. Worth it.

That's like the classy way to do it.   I would normally, but I don't have a company to pay for it and seeing as I'm a tight wad, it's make pretend aldi whiskey and early to bed. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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2 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Different countries have different laws.  A company could argue, in the USA, that an EULA is a contract you're agreeing to.  By breaching a contract you can get in trouble yourself.  Not sure the current stand on the backup thing either here as that keeps changing.  

The enforceability of EULAs in the USA has been overruled once by the US' Supreme Court:

 

Supreme Court Boosts Right To Resell Copyrighted Goods

Quote

 

The Supreme Court ruled that buyers of foreign copyrighted works may resell them in the United States without the copyright holder's permission, a 6-3 decision Tuesday affirming the "first sale" doctrine of federal copyright law.

 

The Software & Information Industry Association, a software-maker and digital-content trade group, blasted the decision.

 

"The ruling for Kirtsaeng will send a tremor through the publishing industries, harming both U.S. businesses and students around the world," the group's general counsel, Keith Kuperschmid said in a statement. "Today's decision will create a strong disincentive for publishers to market different versions and sell copies at different prices in different regions. The practical result may very well be that consumers and students abroad will see dramatic price increases or entirely lose their access to valuable U.S. educational resources created specifically for them."

 

In ruling that people may resell their copyrighted goods without the copyright-holder's permission, the US Supreme Court has effectively ruled that any clause an in EULA claiming that the license is non-transferable or may not be resold is void and completely ignorable, and that people may resell their software licenses in the USA regardless of what the software publisher says in their EULA.

 

The EU has passed the same ruling: EU Court Says, Yes, You Can Resell Your Software, Even If The Software Company Says You Can't

 

The 2013 US Supreme Court ruling also overturns the 2010 US 9th Circuit court ruling that said that in some circumstances people could not resell their purchased software if the publisher says they can't. Yet, for some reason I've often seen people referencing and misrepresenting the outdated 9th Circuit ruling to give an opinion on the state of the right to resell software in the US, when the 9th Circuit ruling is not only rendered defunct by the US Supreme Court's newer ruling, but the 9th Circuit ruling never applied to the US as a whole in the first place.

 

The 9th Circuit ruling was only applicable to: Alaska, Arizona, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and the East and West districts of Washington state. Also, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands.

 

And now it applies to no states.

 

The 9th Circuit ruling also never definitively said that people don't own their software and cannot resell their software. The 9th Circuit ruling involved a tech-illiterate court coming up with some bizarre and ambiguous litmus test to use to guess at whether a particular software item was purchased and owned or whether it was licensed - missing the fact that software is normally both purchased (the instance) and licensed (the IP) simultaneously. The court was hoodwinked and confused by software publisher lawyers into thinking that licensing software is some strange new realm that publishers know better about, rather than being the identical situation to all mass-produced copyrighted goods which are all licensed instances of an IP where the IP isn't sold, but the licensed-instance definitively is.

 

The 9th Circuit court ruling was completely bogus, and since 2013 it has also been rendered defunct as far as being entitled to resell software in the US goes.

 

 

 

Regarding the right to back up your software in the US, the Library of Congress just recently, 2-and-a-half weeks ago, made a definitive ruling that all US citizens are allowed to back up and archive their software, including server-hosting software for games that publishers don't support anymore, and are also allowed to circumvent anti-piracy protections when it is necessary to access and use software that they own:

 

New copyright ruling protects right to repair gadgets and archive video games

 

So, if you have a game or program that you can't play because of bad anti-piracy protection that, just crack it and play it: It was always your right to, and now even the f'ed up US law acknowledges it.

You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

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7 hours ago, poochyena said:

you don't own windows. You buy a license for it.

So you don't own your car or house, just the key to it? Lmfao

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...  nothing, it just sits there collecting dust...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

So you don't own your car or house, just the key to it? Lmfao

If you sign something that says that effect.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

Um, when you buy a house it literally states you're buying the property and the house on it.  When you buy a license you're buying a license to a copy of the original work/product.  That's not really a good metaphor.

When you buy a product on a shelf, or in a digital store, the presentation of the product says that you're buying the product, and so that's what money is exchanged for and that is what you come into ownership of.

 

The license is to use the IP. Same as with buying a movie or a book or a music album, and same as with a car.

 

A house is different, as, depending on which country you live in, bought properties are actually just leased from the government (which is why you pay property taxes).

 

Also, house designs can be owned by a company, and though you own your house you might not own its copyrighted design - which would be the same situation as with cars, books, movies, software, clothes, etc.

You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

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6 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

There's a bit of a difference between owning a physical product and owning a physical product with something digital or a standalone digital product.  This is the debate in the US and why laws make things like backups and what not illegal and legal over and over.  That is when something has a digital aspect to it you're buying a licensed copy of it.

But that's entirely no different than the situation with physical mass-produced goods. With digital products you buy and become the owner of licensed copy of an IP. With physical products you buy and become the owner of a licensed copy of an IP. The license is of the IP, not of the copy.

You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

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30 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I think you are misunderstanding my point which is why the sentence before it is important.  In the US our lawmakers do not care about how you view it.  To them, a physical product is something you have, and a digital product is not something you own.

That's not a view of US lawmakers, though. That's the preferred view of some US publishers.

 

US rulings against the view that people in the US don't own their software:

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2008/05/court-smacks-autodesk-affirms-right-to-sell-used-software/

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=148be5c9-c0d4-4ff7-8dbd-d15884250729

https://www.wired.com/2013/03/scotus-first-sale-decision/

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/copyight-ruling-right-to-repair/

 

 

US rulings in favour of the view that people don't own their software:

 

 

US Rulings unsure of whether or not people own their software:

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/09/the-end-of-used-major-ruling-upholds-tough-software-licenses/

 

 

It seemed like the law in the US was flip-flopping on the matter more than it was because people hyped up misrepresentations of the status of software ownership in the US, and because software publishers spread propaganda to try to trick people into thinking that people in the US don't own their software. There is no in-effect law that says that people across the US don't own there software, and there never was. It was a propaganda-fuelled charade and urban myth.

You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

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9 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

data-theft

I go back to another statement. You know it is happening and you allow it to happen, so its not theft. I don't even see why it matters.

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I am just happy that a lot of the things in users agreements are not actually legal in Sweden :)

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6 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Side note: Seriously, can we get some legislation or an international agreement to change website standards to black background with white or otherwise colored text? White background with black text is getting so annoying these days. IIRC it would be power saving as well as reducing eye strain.

Maybe it eases your eye strain, but it hurts my eyes more to use dark mode.

2 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

To them, a physical product is something you have, and a digital product is not something you own.

You can't just snap your fingers and make 1,000 copies of a physical product, unlike digital products wherein you can easily make 1,000 copies with a couple clicks of your mouse.

 

*EDIT*

Oops, I think I responded to the wrong person.  Ah well, the point is still valid.

Edited by Jito463
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9 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

 

New copyright ruling protects right to repair gadgets and archive video games

 

So, if you have a game or program that you can't play because of bad anti-piracy protection that, just crack it and play it: It was always your right to, and now even the f'ed up US law acknowledges it.

I think you will find that one comes with caveats still, like the average user can only crack single player games that phone home. The rest is only permissible by archival institutions like museums.    So in reality there are probably only a few games you can legal crack the DRM to at home.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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4 hours ago, Jito463 said:

Maybe it eases your eye strain, but it hurts my eyes more to use dark mode.

You can't just snap your fingers and make 1,000 copies of a physical product, unlike digital products wherein you can easily make 1,000 copies with a couple clicks of your mouse.

 

*EDIT*

Oops, I think I responded to the wrong person.  Ah well, the point is still valid.

Its probably because the white point of your monitor is too cool. Blue light causes eye strain and damage.

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6 minutes ago, Amazonsucks said:

Its probably because the white point of your monitor is too cool. Blue light causes eye strain and damage.

As far as I was aware eye strain doesn't actually cause any damage as there isn't a monitor out there that actually emits light waves that physically damage your retinas.

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6 hours ago, poochyena said:

I go back to another statement. You know it is happening and you allow it to happen, so its not theft. I don't even see why it matters.

I appreciate the sentiment towards making sure terms are used correctly, but this statement is really bad. If you don't resist during, lets say a car jacking, then it wasn't a crime because you didn't attempt to stop it?

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5 hours ago, Jito463 said:

Maybe it eases your eye strain, but it hurts my eyes more to use dark mode.

You can't just snap your fingers and make 1,000 copies of a physical product, unlike digital products wherein you can easily make 1,000 copies with a couple clicks of your mouse.

 

*EDIT*

Oops, I think I responded to the wrong person.  Ah well, the point is still valid.

You had your eyes checked?

 

I wear glasses every day so maybe I have more trouble. I know my eyes get tired faster looking at a mostly white screen.

 

I'd wager most people would prefer the night theme. At least when indoors.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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33 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

As far as I was aware eye strain doesn't actually cause any damage as there isn't a monitor out there that actually emits light waves that physically damage your retinas.

Completely false. Every monitor can be set to damage your eyes if you make it blue enough. I have written extensively about this elsewhere and since its off topic ill be brief here...

 

Look into rhodopsin mediated photo reversal and increased reactive oxygen species(free radical) production in the retinal epithelium as a result of visible blue light.

 

The short version is, blue light or white light with a strong blue component damages the retina. It is NOT intensity dependent, its wavelength dependent so even dim blue light in a dark room will cause damge.

 

This doesnt happen outdoors in bright sunlight because the spectral power distribution of sunlight includes a lot of longer wavelengths, which doesnt allow the rhodopsin mediated photoreversal to occur.

 

TLDR use warm mode on your monitor.

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6 hours ago, poochyena said:

I go back to another statement. You know it is happening and you allow it to happen, so its not theft. I don't even see why it matters.

People don't allow it to happen, yet it happens regardless. That's why it's theft.

You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

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39 minutes ago, 2FA said:

I appreciate the sentiment towards making sure terms are used correctly, but this statement is really bad. If you don't resist during, lets say a car jacking, then it wasn't a crime because you didn't attempt to stop it?

Its depends on if you feel like your life was threatened. Is microsoft threatening your life?

 

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

People don't allow it to happen, yet it happens regardless. That's why it's theft.

How do they take your data if you don't buy or use their services/products?

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1 minute ago, poochyena said:

Its depends on if you feel like your life was threatened. Is microsoft threatening your life?

Aren't you the one creating your own personal definitions for theft now?

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Just now, 2FA said:

Aren't you the one creating your own personal definitions for theft now?

no.

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Just now, poochyena said:

no.

Yes, you are. Show me the legal code stating theft is determinate by threat to life.

[Out-of-date] Want to learn how to make your own custom Windows 10 image?

 

Desktop: AMD R9 3900X | ASUS ROG Strix X570-F | Radeon RX 5700 XT | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | 32GB Trident Z Neo 3600MHz | 1TB 970 EVO | 256GB 840 EVO | 960GB Corsair Force LE | EVGA G2 850W | Phanteks P400S

Laptop: Intel M-5Y10c | Intel HD Graphics | 8GB RAM | 250GB Micron SSD | Asus UX305FA

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Server 02: Intel i7 7700K | Gigabye Z170N Gaming5 | 16GB Trident Z 3200MHz

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53 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Its depends on if you feel like your life was threatened. Is microsoft threatening your life?

 

How do they take your data if you don't buy or use their services/products?

Using a manufacturer's product isn't giving your data to the product manufacturer when your usage doesn't necessitate sharing any data. They take it by stealing it without asking about whether you give them permission to have any of it.

 

 

Microsoft state clearly that people own their data. Ownership is the right of decision-making. If people own their data, and they do, then it is fully for people to decide whether and who may have any access to it and who may benefit from it. Microsoft ignores that right of people and takes that data unilaterally, without permission, which is called stealing.

 

50 minutes ago, poochyena said:

no.

You have indeed been inventing nonsensical definitions for "theft" that aren't relatable to the actual definition of theft. That's literally what you've been doing throughout this thread.

 

Microsoft taking people's data in Windows 10 without permission is Microsoft stealing. And Microsoft benefiting from that data in any way is unjust enrichment.

You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

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Fines are meaningless if not enforced.

Lots and lots of laws are not enforced, everything from safety laws on the job site to digital.

Gross negligence causing death on the job site and the supervisor gets little to no punishment, while the tie's get nothing but a paper cut.

 

 

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