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Youtube refunded 26k $ from charity superchats for children cancer research hospital, because of the politics of WSJ

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Yesterday Youtube refunded 26k $ from charity superchats for children cancer research hospital of St. Jude, because of nature of the Youtube channel that livestream went on. 

The owner and host Ethan Ralph (@TheRalphRetort) who fancies the idea of absolute free speech is hosting streams named "KIllstream" that are giving platform for anyone to talk about anything, that many people may find upsetting. A month ago Ralph was hosting a special event named "Healstream" to donate money to the children's research hospital of St. Jude in which they raised 26k $. Also as an addition, Ralph got his both youtube channels terminated on the spot by Youtube.

 

Within 24 hours Youtube started refunding people, on 2nd of November, a new article made by The Wall Street Journal, describing the "Hate Speech on Live ‘Super Chats’ Tests YouTube" made by Yoree Koh (@yoreekoh) references the very same stream, what Ralph and many others from his fans see as a hit piece, the same way as they did with "PewDiePie is a nazi". On Twitter it's referred to the affair via hash tag #WSJKillsKids where they post memes about WSJ. 

 

The hospital haven't made a public statement as of yet, whether they decided to refuse money, or the refunding started on the discretion of YouTube.

 

Thanks to Twitter user Nick Monroe, who get information at one place. https://twitter.com/nickmon1112


https://www.wsj.com/articles/hate-speech-on-live-super-chats-tests-youtube-1541205849?mod=e2tw

 

 


 

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So much for being tolerant....

 

Maybe if they weren’t so fixated on the whole “hate speech” doohickey, they might actually see that it was supposed to end up for a good cause 

 

This is why I’m unhappy with Google’s decision for superchats to be monitored by AI, because what exactly constitutes as hate speech by Google’s standards? If it means restricting what people can say, I’m not having it. 

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1 hour ago, PeterBocan said:

The hospital haven't made a public statement as of yet, whether they decided to refuse money, or the refunding started on the discretion of YouTube.

But if YouTube is the entity refunding the money, then the money was never paid out to TheRalphRetort, meaning St. Jude's never had the oppertunity to refuse the donation. 

Or can you set YouTube to automatically pay out any donations from a given stream to a charity instead of the creator?

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1 minute ago, Volbet said:

Or can set YouTube to automatically pay out any donations on a given stream to a charity?

I have no idea how money flows in this case. In my opinion money were supposed to go directly from Youtube to the hospital.

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I’m more and more convinced that the human race at this point will go extinct not because of natural disasters, aliens, supernatural stuff or the like.

 

Instead, it’ll be due to blind ignorance and stupidity

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8 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

I’m more and more convinced that the human race at this point will go extinct not because of natural disasters, aliens, supernatural stuff or the like.

 

Instead, it’ll be due to blind ignorance and stupidity

It's the moral busybodies at places like the WSJ who go around the internet and watch for language. Just because they have a blue checkmark on Twitter and official email at the institution they work in gives them the power to insinuate the actions that should be made in the name of PC culture, restricting freedom of speech, freedom of association and it's allowed because by the fact that Youtube is de iure a private platform and they are allowed to do whatever they want on their platform. 

 

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8 minutes ago, PeterBocan said:

It's the moral busybodies at places like the WSJ who go around the internet and watch for language. Just because they have a blue checkmark on Twitter and official email at the institution they work in gives them the power to insinuate the actions that should be made in the name of PC culture, restricting freedom of speech, freedom of association and it's allowed because by the fact that Youtube is de iure a private platform and they are allowed to do whatever they want on their platform. 

 

The thing is that aren’t those same people claiming to be pro-Freedom of Speech?

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3 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

I’m more and more convinced that the human race at this point will go extinct not because of natural disasters, aliens, supernatural stuff or the like.

 

Instead, it’ll be due to blind ignorance and stupidity

Yes, self destruction most definitely. I'm with you there. Towards the end of that twitter video, the guy said "they just want to create a space where you can have freedom of speech." Um... That place is here. It's called the United States of America. You're in it. We all are. WSJ doesn't have to like this stream. In fact, they can openly shame them for "being racist" (I didn't watch the stream, idk what was said), and they can do that because they have free speech, just like everyone in that stream. @PeterBocan brought up the part about youtube being a non-open platform (in the sense that someone owns it and has say over what it does) and... yeah that's kind of the only reason why this happened. That said... I don't like the term "hate speech" or "hate crime"... Technically anything negative could be justly classified as "hate whatever". The majority of the time it's just "post hoc ergo propter hoc" (throw back to high school english), or false cause and effect. Just because something negative was said about a person, does not mean that whatever was said is applicable to all people who are similar to him in ways that he cannot change and did not choose (race, sex, eye color, height, weight, whatever it may be). inb4 warning for being political because this is a privately owned website and they have say over what happens here... oh the irony. Still love this place though ❤️

 

15 minutes ago, PeterBocan said:

I have no idea how money flows in this case. In my opinion money were supposed to go directly from Youtube to the hospital.

 

18 minutes ago, Volbet said:

Or can set YouTube to automatically pay out any donations from a given stream to a charity instead of the creator?

Like the twitter video guy said, and similar to twitch, youtube collects all money from donations, subscribes, etc, and then sends it out a month or two later to the stream/channel owner. It will most likely just end up back in everyone's bank accounts in the next few weeks.

 

3 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

The thing is that aren’t those same people claiming to be pro-Freedom of Speech?

Yeah... this is where I would normally bring actual politics into it but I'll stop myself ;) That's the problem with people today.

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Oh yeah I can't possibly see why would a hospital or the youtube platform would be hesitant to take money from fucking Nazis. Hey you know this organization we created selflessly to help others? Guess what? Now it's being funded by internet shitlords that intentionally give us money for "the right" to talk about their hatred of Jews openly within the context of an extremely recent shooting at a synagogue.

 

Why? Cause my Freezed Peach! It obviously means that we need to compel otherwise well meaning charities to accept our bigotry and racism.

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1 minute ago, D13H4RD said:

The thing is that aren’t those same people claiming to be pro-Freedom of Speech?

No. That's dead. You see, with the rise of Internet and Youtube, mainstream media are just obsolete. I can follow twitter trending tweets and get information hours before any one the MSM get to that story, so what are doing MSM? They are fighting the market, the people, they are stifling small youtube channels, who have dissenting views, they are stirring up drama for clicks and views *ON THEIR WEBPAGES*, because that generates revenue... It's like cars replacing horses, and telegraph replacing pigeons, now internet replaces TV and newspapers, and as Darwin said, it's not the strongest or wisest who survive, but those who adapt. 

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2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Oh yeah I can't possibly see why would a hospital or the youtube platform would be hesitant to take money from fucking Nazis. Hey you know this organization we created selflessly to help others? Guess what? Now it's being funded by internet shitlords that intentionally give us money for "the right" to talk about their hatred of Jews openly within the context of an extremely recent shooting at a synagogue.

 

Why? Cause my Freezed Peach! It obviously means that we need to compel otherwise well meaning charities to accept our bigotry and racism.

Free speech is a speech you dont want to hear. The concept of free speech is there to protect those who disagree with you. 

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2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Oh yeah I can't possibly see why would a hospital or the youtube platform would be hesitant to take money from fucking Nazis. Hey you know this organization we created selflessly to help others? Guess what? Now it's being funded by internet shitlords that intentionally give us money for "the right" to talk about their hatred of Jews openly within the context of an extremely recent shooting at a synagogue.

 

Why? Cause my Freezed Peach! It obviously means that we need to compel otherwise well meaning charities to accept our bigotry and racism.

St. Jude can accept money from however they want. And just cause they accept money from someone, doesn't mean they align with their views. They most likely have accepted money from organizations on both the left and the right. Obviously they can't be both, but that hasn't stopped them from accepting a donation. Who cares what was said, why would they force the money to be refunded and taken from a hospital that does nothing but good for everyone who walks through their doors asking for help?

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28 minutes ago, Volbet said:

But if YouTube is the entity refunding the money, then the money was never paid out to The RalphRetort, meaning St. Jude's never had the oppertunity to refuse the donation. 

Or can set YouTube to automatically pay out any donations from a given stream to a charity instead of the creator?

I saw the hashtag on Twitter, and it appears the refunds were operated at the St. Jude's side of things. However, Ralph's entire YouTube presence was obliterated. 

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1 minute ago, VegetableStu said:

free_speech.png

Businesses are a creation of Government and Big Social has taken massive amounts of money from government, being both government contractors and operating as quasi-governmental agencies. Your attempt at memetics is thus false.

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1 minute ago, VegetableStu said:

free_speech.png

Yes, that XKCD that got it absolutely wrong, wonderful.

Yes, it doesn't mean anyone else has to listen to Ralph's podcast and yes, it doesnt shield you from criticisms, but if you wiped out from a platform where 1.2+ billion people meet, then it is a violation of free speech, as it literally means you can not reach other people - where everybody else meets. At this point Youtube, Facebook, and Twitter are town squares owned by private businesses. If you are not allowed in, because of the ideas you hold, it's the violation of the 1A. 

Also, if anyone else doesn't have to listen to Ralph's stream, why the mainstream media care? Why would anyone care about a few dozen small youtubers? Ha? 
 

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39 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

So much for being tolerant....

 

Maybe if they weren’t so fixated on the whole “hate speech” doohickey, they might actually see that it was supposed to end up for a good cause 

 

This is why I’m unhappy with Google’s decision for superchats to be monitored by AI, because what exactly constitutes as hate speech by Google’s standards? If it means restricting what people can say, I’m not having it. 

"Hate Speech" is whatever doesn't fit Google's acceptable narratives. It's thus undefined and that's intentional. It's intentionally something out of Kafka because the point is to always be able to charge/remove/attack anyone at anytime when it becomes useful. People thus self-censor into the discussion range that Google sets out as acceptable. 

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Nevertheless it seems like people who support deplatforming cant see past the politics and the fact that people gathered for a charity event. Politics and political opinions, and tribalism First.

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The real issue here is exactly what is constituted as hate speech?

 

Is there a clear definition of it or is it prone to being twisted based on one’s political or social views?

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7 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

s there a clear definition of it or is it prone to being twisted based on one’s political or social views?

Well, the definition is simple - it's the speech that can be framed as a hateful, bigoted. 

 

The problem is, anything can be framed as hateful and bigoted. And who decides what is and is not hateful or bigoted? The person who is the speech aimed for (but not necessarily, even people who are 'bystanders' can take that as an offence, even if it has nothing to do with them) . For example, if I was a touchy person any criticism would constitute as a hateful speech, because I am an arbiter, my mood, my current mental state is an arbiter of whether I like or don't like what you just said - that's hateful.

Hate speech can be anything I don't like. It's highly subjective, it's highly wishy-washy and based on the mood of the person.

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4 minutes ago, PeterBocan said:

Well, the definition is simple - it's the speech that can be framed as a hateful, bigoted. 

 

The problem is, anything can be framed as hateful and bigoted. And who decides what is and is not hateful or bigoted? The person who is the speech aimed for (but not necessarily, even people who are 'bystanders' can take that as an offence, even if it has nothing to do with them) . For example, if I was a touchy person any criticism would constitute as a hateful speech, because I am an arbiter, my mood, my current mental state is an arbiter of whether I like or don't like what you just said - that's hateful.

Hate speech can be anything I don't like. It's highly subjective, it's highly wishy-washy and based on the mood of the person.

Yeah, exactly what I said in my first post. Especially your last sentence. Politics is no place for moods or feelings.

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1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I saw the hashtag on Twitter, and it appears the refunds were operated at the St. Jude's side of things. However, Ralph's entire YouTube presence was obliterated. 

Considering YouTube's payment policy that doesn't really meake sense. 

YouTube usually pay out donations about a month after a stream as ended, and they, to my knowledge, only pay out to the owner of the streaming channel.

 

I see one of three options here:

So if the money had been offered to St. Jude's then the money was paid out quicker than usual and were attempted to be paid out to someone different from the owner of the channel. 

The money was paid out to TheRalphRetort (again, quicker than usual), refused by St. Jude's and then returned to YouTube for refunding by TheRalphRetort. 

Or the money was never even attempted to be paid out to anyone, and, due to TheRalphRetort being wipped off YouTube, the donations were returned to the donators. 

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1 hour ago, PeterBocan said:

No. That's dead. You see, with the rise of Internet and Youtube, mainstream media are just obsolete. I can follow twitter trending tweets and get information hours before any one the MSM get to that story, so what are doing MSM? They are fighting the market, the people, they are stifling small youtube channels, who have dissenting views, they are stirring up drama for clicks and views *ON THEIR WEBPAGES*, because that generates revenue... It's like cars replacing horses, and telegraph replacing pigeons, now internet replaces TV and newspapers, and as Darwin said, it's not the strongest or wisest who survive, but those who adapt. 

Trending topics about stuff very often spread false stuff in both directions much more than MSM does. Or lots of people trying to take advantage of it with twisting it in a way to  spread their political standpoint. In both directions.

 

It's a bad way to get information. Not saying MSM is perfect and not going in to spesific MSMs, some of them is shit others isn't.

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41 minutes ago, Volbet said:

Considering YouTube's payment policy that doesn't really meake sense. 

YouTube usually pay out donations about a month after a stream as ended, and they, to my knowledge, only pay out to the owner of the channel streaming channel.

 

I see one of three options here:

So if the money had been offered to St. Jude's then either the money was paid out quicker than usual and were attempted to be paid out to someone different from the owner of the channel. 

The money was paid out to TheRalphRetort (again, quicker than usual), refused by St. Jude's and then returned to YouTube for refunding by TheRalphRetort. 

Or the money was never even attempted to be paid out to anyone, and, due to TheRalphRetort being wipped off YouTube, the donations were returned to the donators. 

Not having a YT stream or ever playing with it, I have no idea if you can designate an output for something like that. St. Jude has an official YT Channel, so maybe the Super Chats were directly assigned to that? No clue on the backend stuff, so we'll find out more with time. I'm sure.

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Hang on - if the article on the WSJ was published after the fact, why is it suddenly their fault? Are they just "one of tHeM" because they agree with YouTube's actions and therefore are to be directly blamed for things they didn't do?

 

Other than that, I can only say that this was either extremely stupid of the streamer, or a deliberate provocation to further his narrative. YouTube has guidelines for what you can and cannot say in a video and in superchats, that's nothing new and that's how it is regardless of whether or not you agree. They aren't suddenly going to make an exception because you said you'll give the money to a hospital, and it was painfully obvious that the stream and the channel would be terminated. If this guy had really cared about the hospital, he would have accepted donations some other way - there's no lack of methods to do that.

 

Not to mention, everyone who donated money via superchats could very easily take the money they were refunded and donate it to the hospital directly... sounds to me like this is a non issue. But they don't actually give a damn about the hospital, do they? They probably just want to fabricate a scandal to spread their narrative.

1 hour ago, Cereal5 said:

Politics is no place for moods or feelings.

Oh really? So tell me, what IS it the place for? If you remove basic human empathy from legislature, it loses all purpose. Sure, we all like to think we place "logic" above all, just so long as "logic" means following our personal beliefs - but in the end, you can't apply any logic if you don't have a goal, and the goal is "the greater good", which logic alone cannot define.

1 hour ago, D13H4RD said:

The real issue here is exactly what is constituted as hate speech?

 

Is there a clear definition of it or is it prone to being twisted based on one’s political or social views?

There is a definition:

Quote

Bigoted speech attacking or disparaging a social or ethnic group or a member of such a group.

and I find that many complaints about "hate speech" being too generic come from people who are actively racist and/or like to pick on troubled individuals. You can talk about politics on YouTube (though that may get you demonetized), regardless of your position, as long as you do it in a remotely civilized manner. And no, talking about "the Jewish question" is not civil.

31 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Not having a YT stream or ever playing with it, I have no idea if you can designate an output for something like that. St. Jude has an official YT Channel, so maybe the Super Chats were directly assigned to that? No clue on the backend stuff, so we'll find out more with time. I'm sure.

That's interesting, but in that case I don't see why they would have been refunded. Either way, as I said, that money can still go to the hospital if the noble donators still give a shit 24 hours later.

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Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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1 hour ago, VegetableStu said:

free_speech.png

I hope people can forgive me making an account here specifically for replying lengthily to this post in a somewhat politically tinted way, but I felt compelled to do so because of how wrong i find this comic, and how it completely misses the mark. I lurk this forum for a couple months now if that makes it any better.

 

The reason why the right to free speech is formulated that way is because it was the moral argument applied to the government, it does NOT imply the moral argument should be limited ONLY to the government because people thought of it so important to set it into law.

 

To put it another way, the comic assumes free speech flows out of the right of free speech guaranteed by the government, it does not. Its really the other way around, the people (whoever they were) need free speech for our political system to work, so it was decided to enforce at the very least the government, to limit itself through these laws to abide by free speech. Companies were not really a thing yet as they are today.

 

Taking this logic further with the same driving ideology, if companies become (or would have been at the time) a serious threat to the concept of free speech that just means  new methods are needed to guarantee it taking place, be it laws or government alternatives or other solutions.

 

Before there was no real way competing ideas could force others out of the market of ideas through censorship, you could prevent people from putting flyers in your shop and stuff like that, but if anyone wanted to talk to random strangers on the street about their specific ideology or pet peeve they could do so freely, since the roads belonged to the government.

 

Roads still do belong to the government, but the roads our ideas move over no longer belong to the government. Facebook, google, chatclients, forums... these are the modern squares where people come to talk. if we give up on free speech there, or not provide a realistic alternative and lose these places, there is no going back. We could very well end up in some cyber punk future where you are guaranteed free speech in your own house and in government provided empty rooms that can be rented for shouting at a wall. If the active squares of political conversation no longer tolerates free speech, then free speech died, no matter its government backing. Denying free speech is in danger is dangerous, naive and callous, simply because our laws are no longer up to date to how political discourse happens.

 

And don't get me wrong, i do not mean we have to FORCE companies to allow ANYONE to say anything on their platform and EVERYTHING. Or that any forum ever will turn in the_donald. A couple ground rules or some government alternative that can be freely used to debate online in a technologically relevant way would be nice ideas, theres probably better ones out there though..

 

Free speech is one of the base columns of our society, not just government. If we give that up i guarantee people its only time until we tumble back into oblivion.

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