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Hardened liquid metal causing bsod's?

Go to solution Solved by AngryBeaver,
5 minutes ago, skullbringer said:

 

 

 

Plot twist incoming!

 

BSOD's still happened after the TIM change with hydronaut. The last thing I had not yet tried was a BIOS update. The release notes listed 'microcode update', which gave me hope, since broken CPU "instruction handling" could explain the blue screens under light load.

 

And holy crap, YES, no BSOD has occured since!! ?

 

 

But wait, there is more!

Now I can no longer enter the BIOS. Tried everything: different gpu, onboard gpu, CMOS clear, unplugging drives and usb devices, removing all hardware, removing CMOS battery and draining the board of any power. Still hangs after the ROG has been displayed and Q code shows A9. In 5% of cases, I can actually enter the BIOS, but then it freezes after 2 keyboard inputs. Oh and also the onboard NIC now takes about 2 minutes in Windows to initialize, which is additional fun. 

 

So I opened a support case with Asus (supposedly respond in 48 hours). Took 5 days for them to send me an answer and suggest removing all hardware, removing CMOS battery and draining the board of any power, even though I told them I already did that. Also they do not offer RMA and I was told that I should check with my etailer.  

 

Then I wanted to read the Asus ROG RMA guide, but it is located in a forum, which you need to register for, but you cant, because the forum has a broken captcha on the registration site. ?

 

GJ Asus, what a great customer support experience. 

 

 

Get the requested information and submit it here

 

https://icr-am.asus.com/webchat/icr.html?rootTreeId=AM.US.EN-US&treeId=AM.US.EN-US.MotherBoard&tenantId=EN-US&_ga=2.34655586.2127055490.1541530142-113484903.1540818596

 

Ok I just called Asus. I got some information for you. First Warranties on motherboards are 3 years. Second it is there policy to refer all new purchases (under 14 days) back to the retailer as the replacement would be much quicker than the RMA process as it takes 7-10 business days. That being said you need to call back and let them know you want this to be processed for RMA immediately as your motherboard is more than 14 days old.

 

I also had a hardtime getting any warranty information for motherboards and this is why I called. I also took the opportunity to inform them that the information should be easily accessible and it isn't. Anyways I hope this information can help you get this resolved.

Recently my system has black screening / blue screening while gaming. I ran some stress tests with Prime95 v29 and Furmark simultaneously to check if temps were out of control under load. However CPU was only getting up to 85C with AVX and GPU only 50C. I also tried reverting CPU, memory and GPU overclocks, still the system crashed after about 30 minutes. The crashing also occurs with much lower temps (CPU 60 C, GPU 45 C) than during the stress test.

 

Since I recently moved my system around, I decided to check my liquid metal application having feared that the liquid metal might have gotten moved around by physical shock. 

 

I found this:

Spoiler

IMG_20181031_141946.thumb.jpg.1f65c4acb55ce66163ddb5e77d920b56.jpg

 

The liquid metal was not liquid anymore. I have done some shunt resistor shorting and liquid metal applications in the past, but I have never seen something like this. 

It is basically completely hardened and does not come off the cpu with isopropanol. Instead it had the texture of a lottery scratch ticket, so I had to rub it off with my finger nails.

 

This is how it looks after cleaning: 

Spoiler

IMG_20181031_142625.thumb.jpg.c05f2ac30a5dca461683f53d70618d3a.jpg

Managed to clean the CPU, but the heat spreader remains stained as you can see. 

I went back on conventional TIM for now and temps are about 10 C higher during stress tests and fluctuate a lot more, but I have not experienced a blue screen yet. 

 

 

My theory so far is that the thermal transfer was so bad because of the hardening that some part of the CPU overheated and shut down the system, even though no such temperature is being reported by software monitoring.

 

But I can not yet explain why the liquid metal dried out, maybe because of the custom raw copper heat spreader? Any ideas?

 

 

Specs:

- i7 8086k @ 5.2GHz 1.375V

- GTX 1080 Ti @ 2025MHz 1.093V

- custom water cooling with EK blocks, 2x 360mm radiators

- thermal grizzly conductonaut under ihs, hydronaut everywhere else

 

Personal Build Project "Rained-On"

helped building up the CPU Overclocking Database and GPU Overclocking Database, check them out ;)

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What liquid metal did you use?

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Just now, Enderman said:

What liquid metal did you use?

thermal grizzly conductonaut between die and ihs, and hydronaut between ihs and water block

Personal Build Project "Rained-On"

helped building up the CPU Overclocking Database and GPU Overclocking Database, check them out ;)

#KilledMyWife #MakeBombs #LinusIsNotFunny || Please, dont use non-default grey font colors. Think about the night-theme users! ;)

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1 minute ago, skullbringer said:

thermal grizzly conductonaut between die and ihs, and hydronaut between ihs and water block

Weird, I've never seen that happen.

How long as that liquid metal been there?

I think it would be safe to reapply liquid metal again, worst case scenario you get more crashes but probably not.

NEW PC build: Blank Heaven   minimalist white and black PC     Old S340 build log "White Heaven"        The "LIGHTCANON" flashlight build log        Project AntiRoll (prototype)        Custom speaker project

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Ryzen 3950X | AMD Vega Frontier Edition | ASUS X570 Pro WS | Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | NZXT H500 | Seasonic Prime Fanless TX-700 | Custom loop | Coolermaster SK630 White | Logitech MX Master 2S | Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Pro 512GB | Samsung 58" 4k TV | Scarlett 2i4 | 2x AT2020

 

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Im a complete newb to this but have read that copper will soak up and absorb the liquid metal.  Continue to reapply and monitor and eventually the copper will reach its max absorption rate.  Again Im a newb but Ive read this a few times so don't quote me but that's what I see.

Workstation Laptop: Dell Precision 7540, Xeon E-2276M, 32gb DDR4, Quadro T2000 GPU, 4k display

Ryzen Rig 3: ASRock B450m Pro4, Ryzen 5 3600, ARESGAME River 5 CPU cooler in push/pull, EVGA RTX 2060 KO, 16gb (2x8) 3600mhz TeamGroup T-Force RAM, ARESGAME AGV750w PSU, 1tb WD Black SN750 NVMe Win 10 boot drive, 3tb Hitachi 7200 RPM HDD, Fractal Design Focus G Mini custom painted.  Lenovo 27" 1080p 60hz placeholder monitor, generic mouse, generic keyboard.  Still a work in progress

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3 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Weird, I've never seen that happen.

How long as that liquid metal been there?

I think it would be safe to reapply liquid metal again, worst case scenario you get more crashes but probably not.

built the rig when the 8086k came out, so about 5 months

 

2 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Liquid metal for whatever reason tends to do that when you use it with copper. That is why I don't use it between the IHS and the waterblock.

 

The reason the stock IHS doesn't have this problem is because it is nickle coated.

 

4 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Im a complete newb to this but have read that copper will soak up and absorb the liquid metal.  Continue to reapply and monitor and eventually the copper will reach its max absorption rate.  Again Im a newb but Ive read this a few times so don't quote me but that's what I see.

I ran out of conductonaut for now, but next week I will re-try conductonaut and try to saturate the copper IHS. In case that dries again I can still switch to the stock ihs.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions! ?

Personal Build Project "Rained-On"

helped building up the CPU Overclocking Database and GPU Overclocking Database, check them out ;)

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15 minutes ago, skullbringer said:

built the rig when the 8086k came out, so about 5 months

 

 

I ran out of conductonaut for now, but next week I will re-try conductonaut and try to saturate the copper IHS. In case that dries again I can still switch to the stock ihs.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions! ?

Its the copper, the liquid metal reacts with it, bonds and dries out.
Nothing to do besides not using copper.

When i ask for more specs, don't expect me to know the answer!
I'm just helping YOU to help YOURSELF!
(The more info you give the easier it is for others to help you out!)

Not willing to capitulate to the ignorance of the masses!

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1 minute ago, HanZie82 said:

Its the copper, the liquid metal reacts with it, bonds and dries out.
Nothing to do besides not using copper.

Liquid metal is supposed to exclusively be used with copper.

If you use it with aluminum it will disintegrate it.

NEW PC build: Blank Heaven   minimalist white and black PC     Old S340 build log "White Heaven"        The "LIGHTCANON" flashlight build log        Project AntiRoll (prototype)        Custom speaker project

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1 hour ago, Enderman said:

Liquid metal is supposed to exclusively be used with copper.

If you use it with aluminum it will disintegrate it.

Well its Gallium after all and it loves to alloy itself with other metals.

But where did you find out to use it exclusivly with copper.
On my Conductonaut it says to not use it with aluminium, and only direct heat-pipe coolers can touch if its copper.
Not that you can only use copper, that would be silly.

Screenshot_1.png

 

personaly i would also avoid copper touching...

When i ask for more specs, don't expect me to know the answer!
I'm just helping YOU to help YOURSELF!
(The more info you give the easier it is for others to help you out!)

Not willing to capitulate to the ignorance of the masses!

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9 minutes ago, HanZie82 said:

Well its Gallium after all and it loves to alloy itself with other metals.

But where did you find out to use it exclusivly with copper.
On my Conductonaut it says to not use it with aluminium, and only direct heat-pipe coolers can touch if its copper.
Not that you can only use copper, that would be silly.

Well, coolers are either aluminum or copper because those are the most conductive metals that are easily available, so if it can't be used with aluminum then it basically is exclusively for copper.

 

Obviously there are other non-copper metals it works with but coolers are not made out of those other metals.

NEW PC build: Blank Heaven   minimalist white and black PC     Old S340 build log "White Heaven"        The "LIGHTCANON" flashlight build log        Project AntiRoll (prototype)        Custom speaker project

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Ryzen 3950X | AMD Vega Frontier Edition | ASUS X570 Pro WS | Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | NZXT H500 | Seasonic Prime Fanless TX-700 | Custom loop | Coolermaster SK630 White | Logitech MX Master 2S | Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Pro 512GB | Samsung 58" 4k TV | Scarlett 2i4 | 2x AT2020

 

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3 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Well, coolers are either aluminum or copper because those are the most conductive metals that are easily available, so if it can't be used with aluminum then it basically is exclusively for copper.

 

Obviously there are other non-copper metals it works with but coolers are not made out of those other metals.

You're forgetting nickel-plated copper. What most things are that are not AIO and not look bronse like copper.
Its what most if not all stock internal heatspreaders use. So yeah, if you go liquid metal dont use aluminium or copper. 
Theres options. ?

When i ask for more specs, don't expect me to know the answer!
I'm just helping YOU to help YOURSELF!
(The more info you give the easier it is for others to help you out!)

Not willing to capitulate to the ignorance of the masses!

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On 10/31/2018 at 3:55 PM, Enderman said:

Well, coolers are either aluminum or copper because those are the most conductive metals that are easily available, so if it can't be used with aluminum then it basically is exclusively for copper.

 

Obviously there are other non-copper metals it works with but coolers are not made out of those other metals.

 

On 10/31/2018 at 3:58 PM, HanZie82 said:

You're forgetting nickel-plated copper. What most things are that are not AIO and not look bronse like copper.
Its what most if not all stock internal heatspreaders use. So yeah, if you go liquid metal dont use aluminium or copper. 
Theres options. ?

 

 

Plot twist incoming!

 

BSOD's still happened after the TIM change with hydronaut. The last thing I had not yet tried was a BIOS update. The release notes listed 'microcode update', which gave me hope, since broken CPU "instruction handling" could explain the blue screens under light load.

 

And holy crap, YES, no BSOD has occured since!! ?

 

 

But wait, there is more!

Now I can no longer enter the BIOS. Tried everything: different gpu, onboard gpu, CMOS clear, unplugging drives and usb devices, removing all hardware, removing CMOS battery and draining the board of any power. Still hangs after the ROG has been displayed and Q code shows A9. In 5% of cases, I can actually enter the BIOS, but then it freezes after 2 keyboard inputs. Oh and also the onboard NIC now takes about 2 minutes in Windows to initialize, which is additional fun. 

 

So I opened a support case with Asus (supposedly respond in 48 hours). Took 5 days for them to send me an answer and suggest removing all hardware, removing CMOS battery and draining the board of any power, even though I told them I already did that. Also they do not offer RMA and I was told that I should check with my etailer.  

 

Then I wanted to read the Asus ROG RMA guide, but it is located in a forum, which you need to register for, but you cant, because the forum has a broken captcha on the registration site. ?

 

GJ Asus, what a great customer support experience. 

 

 

Personal Build Project "Rained-On"

helped building up the CPU Overclocking Database and GPU Overclocking Database, check them out ;)

#KilledMyWife #MakeBombs #LinusIsNotFunny || Please, dont use non-default grey font colors. Think about the night-theme users! ;)

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5 minutes ago, skullbringer said:

 

 

 

Plot twist incoming!

 

BSOD's still happened after the TIM change with hydronaut. The last thing I had not yet tried was a BIOS update. The release notes listed 'microcode update', which gave me hope, since broken CPU "instruction handling" could explain the blue screens under light load.

 

And holy crap, YES, no BSOD has occured since!! ?

 

 

But wait, there is more!

Now I can no longer enter the BIOS. Tried everything: different gpu, onboard gpu, CMOS clear, unplugging drives and usb devices, removing all hardware, removing CMOS battery and draining the board of any power. Still hangs after the ROG has been displayed and Q code shows A9. In 5% of cases, I can actually enter the BIOS, but then it freezes after 2 keyboard inputs. Oh and also the onboard NIC now takes about 2 minutes in Windows to initialize, which is additional fun. 

 

So I opened a support case with Asus (supposedly respond in 48 hours). Took 5 days for them to send me an answer and suggest removing all hardware, removing CMOS battery and draining the board of any power, even though I told them I already did that. Also they do not offer RMA and I was told that I should check with my etailer.  

 

Then I wanted to read the Asus ROG RMA guide, but it is located in a forum, which you need to register for, but you cant, because the forum has a broken captcha on the registration site. ?

 

GJ Asus, what a great customer support experience. 

 

 

Get the requested information and submit it here

 

https://icr-am.asus.com/webchat/icr.html?rootTreeId=AM.US.EN-US&treeId=AM.US.EN-US.MotherBoard&tenantId=EN-US&_ga=2.34655586.2127055490.1541530142-113484903.1540818596

 

Ok I just called Asus. I got some information for you. First Warranties on motherboards are 3 years. Second it is there policy to refer all new purchases (under 14 days) back to the retailer as the replacement would be much quicker than the RMA process as it takes 7-10 business days. That being said you need to call back and let them know you want this to be processed for RMA immediately as your motherboard is more than 14 days old.

 

I also had a hardtime getting any warranty information for motherboards and this is why I called. I also took the opportunity to inform them that the information should be easily accessible and it isn't. Anyways I hope this information can help you get this resolved.

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13 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Get the requested information and submit it here

 

https://icr-am.asus.com/webchat/icr.html?rootTreeId=AM.US.EN-US&treeId=AM.US.EN-US.MotherBoard&tenantId=EN-US&_ga=2.34655586.2127055490.1541530142-113484903.1540818596

 

Ok I just called Asus. I got some information for you. First Warranties on motherboards are 3 years. Second it is there policy to refer all new purchases (under 14 days) back to the retailer as the replacement would be much quicker than the RMA process as it takes 7-10 business days. That being said you need to call back and let them know you want this to be processed for RMA immediately as your motherboard is more than 14 days old.

 

I also had a hardtime getting any warranty information for motherboards and this is why I called. I also took the opportunity to inform them that the information should be easily accessible and it isn't. Anyways I hope this information can help you get this resolved.

Holy shit, that was unexpected and made my day. Thank you very much!

Personal Build Project "Rained-On"

helped building up the CPU Overclocking Database and GPU Overclocking Database, check them out ;)

#KilledMyWife #MakeBombs #LinusIsNotFunny || Please, dont use non-default grey font colors. Think about the night-theme users! ;)

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