How to check if laptop CPU is throttling?

[kingmustard]

I currently have a 2014 PC Specialist SkyFire, which is based on MSI's GE40 design.

 

It consists of:

• Intel Core i5-4210M
• NVIDIA GeForce GTX 850M

I am considering upgrading the 37W CPU to a more powerful 37W model (as I doubt the system could handle a 47 or 57W model).

 

Here are my options (green are the ones I am considering):

 

 

Is there a way to see if my CPU is already throttling?

 

If it is, there's little point in popping a 4702MQ/4712MQ CPU in there.

[Uptivuptiz]

You can download something like HWMonitor

[kingmustard]

31 minutes ago, Uptivuptiz said:

You can download something like HWMonitor

I ran Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool's stress test and HWMonitor shows the CPU ran at 2.6 GHz during the tests.

 

It usually went to 3.2 GHz whilst the next test was loading.

 

I presume this means the CPU is very-much thermal throttling?

 

Temperatures never peaked 75C, so I'm wondering if I can increase the temperature threshold to 85C or so?

[Uptivuptiz]

1 minute ago, kingmustard said:

I presume this means the CPU is very-much thermal throttling?

I would assume, yes. You can check it in the 'sensors' tab in HWMonitor

[kingmustard]

4 minutes ago, Uptivuptiz said:

I would assume, yes. You can check it in the 'sensors' tab in HWMonitor

<screenshot snipped>

I'm not seeing that anywhere:

 

 

(ignore the actual data, the screenshot is taken from a fresh restart of Windows)

[Uptivuptiz]

1 minute ago, kingmustard said:

I'm not seeing that anywhere

My mistake. Whoops! The program I use is HWinfo. Herpy Derpy.  

 

[Sfekke]

7 minutes ago, Uptivuptiz said:

I would assume, yes. You can check it in the 'sensors' tab in HWMonitor

Might be worth mentioning, if you run HWiNFO you can upon startup run Sensor only mode.

Makes it so you only have one Window cluttering up the screen if you want to monitor the thermals and other things (fan speed, voltage, etc)

 

Do know throttling is done by design on some laptops, that has been the recent trend.

It shouldn't be happening, but it does.

[Uptivuptiz]

1 minute ago, Sfekke said:

Might be worth mentioning, if you run HWiNFO you can upon startup run Sensor only mode.

Makes it so you only have one Window cluttering up the screen if you want to monitor the thermals and other things (fan speed, voltage, etc)

Extra info for a program! I love it!  

[Ross Siggers]

Just run Prime95, open task manager which shows the cpu frequency. If it drops, you're throttling. Simple.

[kingmustard]

HWiNFO64 is telling me that neither core is thermal throttling but I can see that, during the stress tests, the CPU only appears to hit the 2.6 GHz core clock.

 

Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

 

Both cores are shown to exceed their power limit, if that makes a difference?

 

 

(screenshot taken just after the stress test had completed)

[Tech Wizard]

Download Intel XTU

[Uptivuptiz]

The base clock for the 5-4210M is 2.6Ghz. So it's not thermal throttling. It's just not turboing to 3.2Ghz because of thermal limits. So technically it's not thermal throttling, but it can't go full power either.

[kingmustard]

Just now, Uptivuptiz said:

The base clock for the 5-4210M is 2.6Ghz. So it's not thermal throttling. It's just not turboing to 3.2 because of thermal limits. So technically it's not thermal thrittling, but it can't go full power either.

Is there a way to nudge the thermal limit a little higher, in hope of it turboing a little more often?

[Uptivuptiz]

2 minutes ago, kingmustard said:

Is there a way to nudge the thermal limit a little higher, in hope of it turboing a little more often?

I don't know if you can do this with the 4210M, but what you can do (and what I've done with my Dell XPS 15) is undervolting the CPU with Intel Extreme Tuning Utility. This should lower temps a bit.

[kingmustard]

Just now, Uptivuptiz said:

I don't know if you can do this with the 4210M, but what you can do (and what I've done with my Dell XPS 15) is undervolting the CPU with Intel Extreme Tuning Utility. This should lower temps a bit.

Temperatures aren't really an issue. I think 80C is about normal during a CPU stress test in a relatively slim laptop.

 

Won't undervolting the CPU simply lower the performance further (when I'm already not really getting to utilize the CPU's power) in exchange for lower overall temperatures?

[Uptivuptiz]

1 minute ago, kingmustard said:

Temperatures aren't really an issue. I think 80C is about normal during a CPU stress test in a relatively slim laptop.

 

Won't undervolting the CPU simply lower the performance further (when I'm already not really getting to utilize the CPU's power) in exchange for lower overall temperatures?

The way undervolting works is like this:

You're feeding less electricity to the CPU, but it still have to do the same amount of work. By feeding less electricity you lower the amount  of thermal resistance that happens. Meaning lower temps. However this also means that the CPU is doing the same with less. So doing it too much will cause system instability. 

[kingmustard]

Just now, Uptivuptiz said:

The way undervolting works is like this:

You're feeding less electricity to the CPU, but it still have to do the same amount of work. By feeding less electricity you lower the amount  of thermal resistance that happens. Meaning lower temps. However this also means that the CPU is doing the same with less. So doing it too much will cause system instability. 

Is undervolting the CPU a software or hardware change?

 

e.g. if I reinstall Windows, would the voltage be restored?

[Uptivuptiz]

1 minute ago, kingmustard said:

Is undervolting the CPU a software or hardware change?

 

e.g. if I reinstall Windows, would the voltage be restored?

The undervolting is changing instructions for power delivery so yes, it's software.

[kingmustard]

13 minutes ago, Uptivuptiz said:

The undervolting is changing instructions for power delivery so yes, it's software.

I don't think I could be bothered monitoring the voltage every few weeks to see if a software (i.e. Windows) or driver (i.e. CPU/motherboard drivers) update has restored the voltage to stock 

 

It's the same issue I have with GPU overclocks. If they're not saved to the firmware itself, even driver updates (which are roughly once every few weeks) can (and often do) restore the clocks.

[Uptivuptiz]

3 minutes ago, kingmustard said:

I don't think I could be bothered monitoring the voltage every few weeks to see if a software (i.e. Windows) or driver (i.e. CPU/motherboard drivers) update has restored the voltage to stock 

I think it only resets when you reinstall Windows completely. Updates doesn't have an effect. 

[Guest]

Intel XTU tells you about basically every type of thermal or power throttling through a GUI.

[Ross Siggers]

46 minutes ago, Ross Siggers said:

Just run Prime95, open task manager which shows the cpu frequency. If it drops, you're throttling. Simple.

Or if this isn't clear enough, Aida64 trial has a graph  

[kingmustard]

Based on the screenshots etc. I have posted above, I'm guessing it's a waste of time upgrading the CPU? (even though it's the same 37W TDP)

[kingmustard]

7 hours ago, Uptivuptiz said:

I don't know if you can do this with the 4210M, but what you can do (and what I've done with my Dell XPS 15) is undervolting the CPU with Intel Extreme Tuning Utility. This should lower temps a bit.

I have experimented with XTU:

 

Core Voltage Offset: Stock
Turbo Boost Power Max: Stock (37.00w)
Turbo Boost Short Power Max: Stock (46.250w)
Result: 330 Marks, max. CPU freq.: 3.16 MHz

 

Core Voltage Offset: -0.050V
Turbo Boost Power Max: Stock (37.00w)
Turbo Boost Short Power Max: Stock (46.250w)
Result: 330 Marks, max. CPU freq.: 3.16 MHz

 

Core Voltage Offset: -0.100V
Turbo Boost Power Max: Stock (37.00w)
Turbo Boost Short Power Max: Stock (46.250w)

Result: 330 Marks, max. CPU freq.: 3.16 MHz

 

Core Voltage Offset: Stock
Turbo Boost Power Max: 40.75w (roughly +10%)
Turbo Boost Short Power Max: 50.75w (roughly +10%)

Result: 328 Marks, max. CPU freq.: 3.16 MHz

 

Basically, I'm hardly getting any change.

[Uptivuptiz]

You should undervolt all the cores to about -0.050v to -0.075v. Also Increasing Turbo Boost Power Max and Short Power Max should be stock. There no point increasing power when you want to decrease temps. See if that works