Want to know if a 450watt 80+ psu is enough for my build?

[AngryBeaver]

On 10/20/2018 at 3:00 AM, Guysguy said:

I am building a pc with ryzen3 2200G and msi B450M pro-VDH motherboard.The ram is Gskills ripjaws V 8GB single stick.One 240GB SSD and a 1TB HDD 7.2k RPM from WD.I will try to add add atleast 3 120mm fans in my case for better airflow and a better cpu cooler.I wan't to add a gtx 1060 in future and I'm going to overclock both 1060 and the ryzen 3.When I calculated the psu wattage it was around 338watt.  But I  doubt if a 450watt psu is enough for my build with overclocking , If not which psu should I buy to satisfy the power requirements considering my budget of Rs.4000 for psu.

If you overclock you should still be fine. The gpu is going to limit you to probably 10-15% on power limit. The 2200g isn't exactly a high watt cpu anyways so overclocking it might increase your wattage 25-30 or so. So having a little over 100W of wiggle room I don't see you have any issues.

[Stefan Payne]

11 hours ago, Zando Bob said:

Seasonic has solid budget units, but most of EVGA's budget ones are oof. the G3s and such are amazing though, I have two and they're awesome. Have a Seasonic M12II Evo as well, it's really nice but a bit loud. The Focus Plus Gold I have is cooper quiet tho. 

 

Damn I sound like I'm drowning in power supplies....

Sorry, but you are misinformed. Because in the end I believe the EVGA budget units are probably better than the S12II-Bronze (below 750W)

Seasonic doesn't have shit under the Focus with the exception of the 750W and 850W S12II and M12II units.

 

The 620W and below are crap. The 350W S12II-Bronze unit is no better than a ~30€ cheapo from "NoName" Manufacturers like Xilence and LC-Power - while costing almost twice as much.

 

And a Cougar VTX is very unterrated - because it beats the shit out of the S12II in every measurable aspect, voltage regulation and especially noise.

Here:

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-07/cooler-master-cougar-xfx-zalman-netzteil-test/3/

The XFX XT500 (zweite Revision) is the Seasonic S12II.

 

The reason for that is its age!

S12II was designed in the late 2000s and introduced in 2010 and since then sold without any real changes to the electronics.

To make it worse: Seasonic lied on the label and claimed two +12V rails when there is nothing to support it. No seperated solderjoints, no shunts/coils, no protection IC supporting it.

here:

https://ru.gecid.com/power/seasonic_m12ii-520_bronze_evo_edition_ss-520gm2_2015/?s=all

 

They also kinda lied on the G-Series wich had two rails but not on the label. But I'm fine with this case as it is NOT wrong. It is just a different interpretation, in this case it is wrong.

 

11 hours ago, 17030644 said:

lol to me it doesn't sould like that

 

S12II and M12II <750W are loud and have very basic protection. Besides they are old and expensive in most places

Exactly!

And if sold by someone else, they'd been bashed and flamed to smithereens.

 

Things changed back in 2012/2013 with Haswell - also the time when the first budget units with DC-DC were introduced - to my knowledge it was Enermax Triathlor and Cooler Master G-Series (GM) wich came around 2012.

 

And I'd rather have a PSU with good (independant) voltage regulation, chinese or taiwanese caps, rated at 25-35°C enviroment temperature but has OCP on all rails, OTP is present (and also working), max fan RPM is under 1000rpm with the 550W model.

 

Or to be more precise: I rather have a Xilence Performance A+ in my PC than a Seasonic S12II, regardless of the "quality caps", wich should be the icing on the cake and not the decision making thingy...

11 hours ago, Zando Bob said:

Yep. I have the 620W Evo version, it's a good fully modular PSU, but the Focus Gold I have is better.

Condolences.

And no, its not a good PSU, never was. 

When it came out, it was mediocre because of the fan curve and bad protection. That was almost 10 years ago. In the last 10 years so much has changed that most mediocre units from that time are garbage and shit by todays standards. And that is the case with the S12II.

 

If you had invested a bit more and gotten the 750W, that would have been a decent one...

At least OCP would have been on all rails and DC-DC would have been there...

 

Quote

But then my EVGA G3s are super dank. I have a 550W one, and now a 1000W one cause I needed moar power for SLI and the 1000W was only $20 more than the 850W, and I won't need to replace it till I'm like 30 cause 10 year warranty, so why not?

 

Because EVGA is not that great and mediocre or as we in Germany like to say: 08/15 (ordinary, less than ordinary, nothing noteworthy, mediocre or however you might call that)...

 

As for the Warranty:
I hope you're not a smoker. If so, no warranty for you!

I hope you're not living in a more hostile enviroment (like right next to water), where it might be a bit moist. Because no warranty for you.

 

Oh and wear and tear is excluded as well!

 

So how important is the warranty lenth really??

And that's the problem, that many people look only at the lenth, not at the service the company provides, where you have to send it (how much is shipping?), how long they usually take. Do they have some kind of express replacement??

[Zando_]

2 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Because EVGA is not that great and mediocre or as we in Germany like to say: 08/15 (ordinary, less than ordinary, nothing noteworthy, mediocre or however you might call that)...

 

As for the Warranty:
I hope you're not a smoker. If so, no warranty for you!

I hope you're not living in a more hostile enviroment (like right next to water), where it might be a bit moist. Because no warranty for you.

 

Oh and wear and tear is excluded as well!

 

So how important is the warranty lenth really??

And that's the problem, that many people look only at the lenth, not at the service the company provides, where you have to send it (how much is shipping?), how long they usually take. Do they have some kind of express replacement??

Thanks for the info on the Seasonic PSUs(didn't know all that), but my G3s are fine. I trust the warranty and the company behind them as well, all my experiences with EVGA support have been awesome, and I've had 2 1050s, 2 1050 Tis, 2 1080s, and a 980 Ti from them, as well as my 2 (oh wait actually 3, I have another 650W G3) have been great. Heck even my basic mouse I won in a giveaway was pretty dope till I gave it away to a friend. Also the G3 units score well with @jonnyGURU, with the 1000W pulling a 9.8/10, and then there's a review for the 750W one but I have the 550 and 650 variants in addition to my 1000W one. IDK if the experience is different in Germany, but in the US and in my experience EVGA has pretty much the best service I've used, ever. As for express replacement, I don't know if they offer that, but RMA takes at most 2-3 weeks and like I said, I have a 550W, 650W, and 1000W EVGA G3, 550W Seasonic Focus Gold, Corsair CX550, Corsair CX450M, and the Seasonic M12II Evo 620W, and the likelihood of all those going out at the same time is pretty close to 0, so I should be fine.

 

So TL;DR: Thanks for the info on the Seasonic units, didn't know all that. But my EVGA stuff and their warranty has been fine in my experience. Also no, I don't smoke and why the hell would I have my PC by water.

[17030644]

8 hours ago, Zando Bob said:

 Also the G3 units score well with @jonnyGURU, with the 1000W pulling a 9.8/10, and then there's a review for the 750W one but I have the 550 and 650 variants in addition to my 1000W one

2

The score itself doesn't mean much.

 

You need to look at the performance results and stuff, EVGA's W1 and B1 series performed like junk but still managed to get a 9 out of 10 or something close to that because there were selling for very cheap. So the value score outweighted all the other scores. Of course that has no value nowadays, as prices change and there are other options selling for cheaper.

 

Besides, keep in mind johnnyguru doesn't score on the protection features nor the noise levels, which explains why the S12II/M12II got a fairly high score. Not to mention group regulation, it just wasn't a thing back in 2009

 

10 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Things changed back in 2012/2013 with Haswell - also the time when the first budget units with DC-DC were introduced - to my knowledge it was Enermax Triathlor and Cooler Master G-Series (GM) wich came around 2012.

 

And I'd rather have a PSU with good (independant) voltage regulation, chinese or taiwanese caps, rated at 25-35°C enviroment temperature but has OCP on all rails, OTP is present (and also working), max fan RPM is under 1000rpm with the 550W model.

 

Or to be more precise: I rather have a Xilence Performance A+ in my PC than a Seasonic S12II, regardless of the "quality caps", wich should be the icing on the cake and not the decision making thingy...

 

 

Do you think the capacitor selection of the GM series is fine?

 

[Zando_]

2 minutes ago, 17030644 said:

The score itself doesn't mean much.

 

You need to look at the performance results and stuff, EVGA's W1 and B1 series performed like junk but still managed to get a 9 out of 10 or something close to that because there were selling for very cheap. So the value score outweighted all the other scores. Of course that has no value nowadays, as prices change and there are other options selling for cheaper.

 

Those are the scores for the 1000W G3 unit:

Performance 10

Functionality 9.5

Value 9.5

Build Quality 10

Total Score 9.8

[17030644]

Just now, Zando Bob said:

Those are the scores for the 1000W G3 unit:

Performance 10

Functionality 9.5

Value 9.5

Build Quality 10

Total Score 9.8

Look at techpowerup/tomshardware reviews, they test way more stuff than johnnyguru does

 

Performance: no inrush current/no hold-up time/no PWR_OK signal

Functionality: it's ok

Value: It doesn't count, as you probably didn't get it for the same price that PSU was back then

Build quality: no hint at the protection IC features

[seon123]

2 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

Those are the scores for the 1000W G3 unit:

Performance 10

Functionality 9.5

Value 9.5

Build Quality 10

Total Score 9.8

The performance testing isn't very in depth, functionality is completely subjective, as is value, and there's no testing of noise or the protections. 

[17030644]

1 minute ago, seon123 said:

The performance testing isn't very in depth, functionality is completely subjective, as is value, and there's no testing of noise or the protections. 

Yeah I pointed that out a few minutes ago.

 

Surprisingly, working protections is one of the most important things on the PSU, I thought johnnyguru had the equipment to do that testing

[Guest]

You guys need to stop tagging ME when you're talking about the site.  I haven't written a review there in 7 years.

 

1 hour ago, 17030644 said:

Surprisingly, working protections is one of the most important things on the PSU, I thought johnnyguru had the equipment to do that testing

Jeremy (the guy who actually writes 99% of the review) does have the equipment and the knowhow.... but it takes time and extra work and he's just not into it anymore, which is why he's retiring at the end of this year.  

[Stefan Payne]

10 hours ago, Zando Bob said:

I trust the warranty and the company behind them as well, all my experiences with EVGA support have been awesome

...so far, because they are economy healthy right now. But what when it goes down the toilet and they aren't as healthy??

 

Thing is you can't know what is in 5 or 10 years. And if they value the warranty after 7, 8 years is totally unknown. Because EVGA started doing PSU merely 6 years ago - they aren't evan as old as the warranty they provide yet!

10 hours ago, Zando Bob said:

Also the G3 units score well with @jonnyGURU, with the 1000W pulling a 9.8/10, and then there's a review for the 750W one but I have the 550 and 650 variants in addition to my 1000W one.

a) they don't test protection nor fan speed/noise, just voltage regulation and ripple. Both are fine with most units.

But the important think with modern PSU is protection, here you see the most difference. As do you in fan speed. And that's pretty bad for most EVGA units. 

 

b) you can't use a test of a 750W version for the 550 and 650W, they are different...

 

10 hours ago, Zando Bob said:

but RMA takes at most 2-3 weeks

2-3 Weeks is abysmal.

Good manufacturers are able to offer a turnaround time of 2-3 days.

And in some cases, you can get a 48h express replacement, depending on where you live.

 

The German Postal services are able to do around 500-600km per day.

 

2 hours ago, 17030644 said:

The score itself doesn't mean much.

Exactly, it only tells you that its electrically OK, doesn't tell you much about the rest...

2 hours ago, 17030644 said:

Besides, keep in mind johnnyguru doesn't score on the protection features nor the noise levels, which explains why the S12II/M12II got a fairly high score. Not to mention group regulation, it just wasn't a thing back in 2009

Exactly.

And people take reviews from 2010 that were good and use them today and assume that the PSU was tested good almost 10 years ago has to be good today as well.

Wich is absolute bullshit....

Because things Change...

Because if we go back 10 years, 10 years ago, a 300W PSU had like 30A on +5V and 8-12A on +12V...

Today a 300W PSU has 24-25A on +12V and like 15A on +5V...

 

A PSU that was awesome at the Beginning of the 2000s was obsolete in the mid 2000s.

Why should that change?

2 hours ago, 17030644 said:

Do you think the capacitor selection of the GM series is fine?

I think they are acceptable for a device of this range...

And I've seen JunFu and ChengX in a ~70€ Gold PSU...

2 hours ago, Zando Bob said:

Those are the scores for the 1000W G3 unit:

Performance 10

Functionality 9.5

Value 9.5

Build Quality 10

Total Score 9.8

Irrelevant.

How is the fan speed?
How is the Protection??

With 1000W you'd want multiple +12V OCP Channels.

And a not too high fan speed.

 

And noise is pretty shit for the Super Flower units:
https://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/superflower_leadex_ii/s08.php

 

In Techpowerup Reviews it even looks like they have a 2 or 3 step fan controller...

[Zando_]

13 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

...so far, because they are economy healthy right now. But what when it goes down the toilet and they aren't as healthy??

If that happens there willprobably be bigger things to worry about than my PSU's warranty. Plus like you said " Thing is you can't know what is in 5 or 10 years. " I can see them now, they're a good company, so I assume they'll continue like that in the future. Yeah, I can't know for 100% sure, but considering I can't know for 100% sure that I'll even be alive tomorrow and I don't worry about that, I don't need to worry about a piece of tech that cost me $135.

13 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

b) you can't use a test of a 750W version for the 550 and 650W, they are different...

Gee, wonder why I merely mentioned that and didn't quote it as a valid source for the performance of the other units, and specifically said "but I have the 550 and 650 variants"...

 

8 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

2-3 Weeks is abysmal.

Good manufacturers are able to offer a turnaround time of 2-3 days.

And in some cases, you can get a 48h express replacement, depending on where you live.

I did say at most, and heck it takes 2-3 days to even get to them, so how can I expect something to be refurbished/replaced before the OEM has even recieved the faulty product (not that I've ever had one, but my friend has so I'm going off his experience)? Also German Postal Service =/= US Postal Service so that's completely and utterly irrelevant.

 

9 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Irrelevant.

How is the fan speed?
How is the Protection??

With 1000W you'd want multiple +12V OCP Channels.

And a not too high fan speed.

 

And noise is pretty shit for the Super Flower units:
https://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/superflower_leadex_ii/s08.php

 

In Techpowerup Reviews it even looks like they have a 2 or 3 step fan controller...

Protection seems fine, the G3 and G2 units are very good PSUs from everything I've read. Haven't had my 1000W G3 get very loud, even running a 4.2Ghz R7 2700X and SLI 1080s, and if it is louder then that's a totally normal tradeoff for a smaller form factor. I could have gotten a bigger PSU like the older G2s or the Corsair RMx series or something, but those leave me less space to stuff the cables, and it's already hard enough to route them in my Evolv ATX.

 

[17030644]

21 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

You guys need to stop tagging ME when you're talking about the site.  I haven't written a review there in 7 years.

 

Jeremy (the guy who actually writes 99% of the review) does have the equipment and the knowhow.... but it takes time and extra work and he's just not into it anymore, which is why he's retiring at the end of this year.  

jeremy is oklahoma wolf isn't it?

 

Thanks for the info

 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, 17030644 said:

jeremy is oklahoma wolf isn't it?

 

Thanks for the info

 

 

Yes.  Jeremy is Oklahoma Wolf.

 

Buy some of his photos here:  https://theweatherwolf.zenfolio.com/