Jump to content

macos installer iso

9 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

but that the OS must be legit - we would not point people to where to download it if they did not have a Mac

So for clarification, the mods are ok with people discussing violating the EULA as long as they violate the EULA with a legit OS? 

 

At some point, the EULA is being broken. Either ban it all together or let people talk about it and help people. Trying to walk a middle ground just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. 

 

To me it sounds like the phrase: “He’s a criminal with a conscience.” At the end of the day he’s still a criminal. Thats just my 2cents. 

Laptop: 2019 16" MacBook Pro i7, 512GB, 5300M 4GB, 16GB DDR4 | Phone: iPhone 13 Pro Max 128GB | Wearables: Apple Watch SE | Car: 2007 Ford Taurus SE | CPU: R7 5700X | Mobo: ASRock B450M Pro4 | RAM: 32GB 3200 | GPU: ASRock RX 5700 8GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 11 | Storage: 1TB Crucial P3 NVME SSD, 1TB PNY CS900, & 4TB WD Blue HDD | PSU: Be Quiet! Pure Power 11 600W | Display: LG 27GL83A-B 1440p @ 144Hz, Dell S2719DGF 1440p @144Hz | Cooling: Wraith Prism | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G305 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball | Server: 2018 Core i3 Mac mini, 128GB SSD, Intel UHD 630, 16GB DDR4 | Storage: OWC Mercury Elite Pro Quad (6TB WD Blue HDD, 12TB Seagate Barracuda, 1TB Crucial SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda HDD)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

So for clarification, the mods are ok with people discussing violating the EULA as long as they violate the EULA with a legit OS? 

 

At some point, the EULA is being broken. Either ban it all together or let people talk about it and help people. Trying to walk a middle ground just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. 

 

Thats just my 2cents. 

I'm struggling with that at the moment as well.  On some level, I feel it makes sense - getting the software is something "sacred" and must be done properly, whether it's free or otherwise, so I feel that should be enforced, but once you have it, you use it how you like.  After all it's just you, for personal purposes.  On the other hand, I totally get what you're saying.  And yes, we are ok with people violating that because a software contract like that is not legally binding.  If Apple wanted to do anything about it, it would be a civil case between them and the user.  It's not our problem, and it's certainly not illegal in any way.

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see where this goes.

Solve your own audio issues  |  First Steps with RPi 3  |  Humidity & Condensation  |  Sleep & Hibernation  |  Overclocking RAM  |  Making Backups  |  Displays  |  4K / 8K / 16K / etc.  |  Do I need 80+ Platinum?

If you can read this you're using the wrong theme.  You can change it at the bottom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1014.pdf

It seems fairly clear to me that it's for one person to download for their own usage if they own the hardware, but I'd welcome your interpretation as well

Yep, seems pretty straight forward to me (although I am not a lawyer and might be completely wrong).

 

On page 4 it states:

Quote

J. Other Use Restrictions.

The grants set forth in this License do not permit you to, and you agree not to, install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-branded computer, or to enable others to do so.

Except as otherwise permitted by the terms of this License or otherwise licensed by Apple: (i) only one user may use the Apple Software at a time, and (ii) you may not make the Apple Software  available over a network where it could be run or used by multiple computers at the same time. You may not rent, lease, lend, sell, redistribute or sublicense the Apple Software.

The way I interpret it, you are not allowed to enable other people to install the OS on a non-Apple-branded computer.

It also states that you are not allowed to redistribute Apple software.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Yep, seems pretty straight forward to me (although I am not a lawyer and might be completely wrong).

 

On page 4 it states:

The way I interpret it, you are not allowed to enable other people to install the OS on a non-Apple-branded computer.

It also states that you are not allowed to redistribute Apple software.

Now here comes the interesting part - under what laws is its distribution protected?  Is it only this license?  Or is it the same laws that prevent piracy of other material (software, movies, etc.) despite the fact that it is "free"?  I feel like it's the latter, which is why I feel ok breaking the license but not letting people "pirate" it, but in truth I'm not sure that we're 100% certain on that front.

Solve your own audio issues  |  First Steps with RPi 3  |  Humidity & Condensation  |  Sleep & Hibernation  |  Overclocking RAM  |  Making Backups  |  Displays  |  4K / 8K / 16K / etc.  |  Do I need 80+ Platinum?

If you can read this you're using the wrong theme.  You can change it at the bottom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Now here comes the interesting part - under what laws is its distribution protected?  Is it only this license?  Or is it the same laws that prevent piracy of other material (software, movies, etc.) despite the fact that it is "free"?  I feel like it's the latter, which is why I feel ok breaking the license but not letting people "pirate" it, but in truth I'm not sure that we're 100% certain on that front. 

My guess is that it would fall under the same copyright law and regulations as any other intellectual property, regardless of whether or not it is free as in free beer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

My guess is that it would fall under the same copyright law and regulations as any other intellectual property, regardless of whether or not it is free as in free beer.

And if so (but only if), then there would be a very reasonable and solid case for needing to protect it against piracy and preventing people from engaging in that while still fully allowing people to make hackintoshes, provided they got the OS legitimately.

Solve your own audio issues  |  First Steps with RPi 3  |  Humidity & Condensation  |  Sleep & Hibernation  |  Overclocking RAM  |  Making Backups  |  Displays  |  4K / 8K / 16K / etc.  |  Do I need 80+ Platinum?

If you can read this you're using the wrong theme.  You can change it at the bottom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

So there's no official way to run OS X on a virtual machine in Windows. The Apple EULA clearly states under section 2 B that you're allowed to:

 

Quote

(iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software, for purposes of: (a) software development; (b) testing during software development; (c) using OS X Server; or (d) personal, non-commercial use.


Source: Apple Inc. Software License Agreement for OS X Maverics
 

This means that you can virtualize OS X only inside OS X on Mac hardware. Anything else breaks the license.

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler
Spoiler

AMD 5000 Series Ryzen 7 5800X| MSI MAG X570 Tomahawk WiFi | G.SKILL Trident Z RGB 32GB (2 * 16GB) DDR4 3200MHz CL16-18-18-38 | Asus GeForce GTX 3080Ti STRIX | SAMSUNG 980 PRO 500GB PCIe NVMe Gen4 SSD M.2 + Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB PCIe NVMe M.2 (2280) Gen3 | Cooler Master V850 Gold V2 Modular | Corsair iCUE H115i RGB Pro XT | Cooler Master Box MB511 | ASUS TUF Gaming VG259Q Gaming Monitor 144Hz, 1ms, IPS, G-Sync | Logitech G 304 Lightspeed | Logitech G213 Gaming Keyboard |

PCPartPicker 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Spoiler

 

Would it be fair to say that, if you bought the Apple hardware from another person, you now own it? If such is the case, I'd start by simply buying the cheapest Apple machine that can run El Capitan, and downloading an installer with that if it's that much of an issue. 

Unrelated:

 

 

Please delete this comment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Sure if they had incentive to do so. The only time a company is going to waste money on stoping people from dirsitbuting software is when the opportunity cost of not doing something starts becoming tangible. 

There is an incentive, there is always an incentive, many companies actually issue C&Ds and the like even when it is obvious that their will be no opportunity costs, just because they need to defend their material so that they can prove to courts that they have defended their property if any serious threats ever arose.

In search of the future, new tech, and exploring the universe! All under the cover of anonymity!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ryan_Vickers and @DrMacintosh

The words your looking for is, Unregulated Distribution of which is not allowed by Apples EULA, it is pretty clear on this. This is why the EULA states that you must own a Mac to download the OS, not your friend or other... there just happens to be 5 lawyer offices just down the hall from my office ...

Quote

Unregulated distribution of copyrighted works over the Internet is an infringement of a copyright just it it would be to make a hard copy and hand it over to someone else. If a software developer [Apple in this case] allows a copy to be made by an owner of a software [Mac OS] then that copy is to used as intended by that same individual. Just like making copies of a CD, DVD or Cassette tape. Making copies for personal use is one thing but once you give to someone else to use it is now a distributed item and that same individual can be charged with copyright infringement.

~Spoken by (unnamed lawyers) down the hall. Paraphrasing of course.

I asked some of them about this thread and the above is what they told me collectively after I told them about this conversation.

 

There is nothing wrong about conversing about Hackintoshing but depending on the information being shared can in some regard cross the line but in conversation it is difficult to define intent versus theory. If the advice is in direct opposition of Apples EULA then yes it is a legal concern.

Edited by SansVarnic

COMMUNITY STANDARDS   |   TECH NEWS POSTING GUIDELINES   |   FORUM STAFF

LTT Folding Users Tips, Tricks and FAQ   |   F@H & BOINC Badge Request   |   F@H Contribution    My Rig   |   Project Steamroller

I am a Moderator, but I am fallible. Discuss or debate with me as you will but please do not argue with me as that will get us nowhere.

 

Spoiler

  

 

Character is like a Tree and Reputation like its Shadow. The Shadow is what we think of it; The Tree is the Real thing.  ~ Abraham Lincoln

Reputation is a Lifetime to create but seconds to destroy.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.  ~ Winston Churchill

Docendo discimus - "to teach is to learn"

 

 CHRISTIAN MEMBER 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

@Ryan_Vickers and @DrMacintosh

The words your looking for is, Unregulated Distribution of which is not allowed by Apples EULA, it is pretty clear on this. This is why the EULA states that you must own a Mac to download the OS, not your friend or other... there just happens to be 5 lawyer offices just down the hall from my office ...

I asked some of them about this thread and the above is what they told me collectively after I told them about this conversation.

That's kinda what I thought and that's the conclusion I think this was moving toward anyway.  So based on that, we can't go giving people copies of the OS or telling them how to get it if they don't already have a legitimate means.  It's not a matter of violating the EULA - hackintosh does that regardless - actually acquiring the OS goes "beyond that" legally speaking and has to be done properly or it's piracy.

Solve your own audio issues  |  First Steps with RPi 3  |  Humidity & Condensation  |  Sleep & Hibernation  |  Overclocking RAM  |  Making Backups  |  Displays  |  4K / 8K / 16K / etc.  |  Do I need 80+ Platinum?

If you can read this you're using the wrong theme.  You can change it at the bottom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

@Ryan_Vickers and @DrMacintosh

The words your looking for is, Unregulated Distribution of which is not allowed by Apples EULA, it is pretty clear on this. This is why the EULA states that you must own a Mac to download the OS, not your friend or other... there just happens to be 5 lawyer offices just down the hall from my office ...

I asked some of them about this thread and the above is what they told me collectively after I told them about this conversation.

 

There is nothing wrong about conversing about Hackintoshing but depending on the information being shared can in some regard cross the line but in conversation it is difficult to define intent versus theory. If the advice is in direct opposition of Apples EULA then yes it is a legal concern.

Meh. Ok

Laptop: 2019 16" MacBook Pro i7, 512GB, 5300M 4GB, 16GB DDR4 | Phone: iPhone 13 Pro Max 128GB | Wearables: Apple Watch SE | Car: 2007 Ford Taurus SE | CPU: R7 5700X | Mobo: ASRock B450M Pro4 | RAM: 32GB 3200 | GPU: ASRock RX 5700 8GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 11 | Storage: 1TB Crucial P3 NVME SSD, 1TB PNY CS900, & 4TB WD Blue HDD | PSU: Be Quiet! Pure Power 11 600W | Display: LG 27GL83A-B 1440p @ 144Hz, Dell S2719DGF 1440p @144Hz | Cooling: Wraith Prism | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G305 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball | Server: 2018 Core i3 Mac mini, 128GB SSD, Intel UHD 630, 16GB DDR4 | Storage: OWC Mercury Elite Pro Quad (6TB WD Blue HDD, 12TB Seagate Barracuda, 1TB Crucial SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda HDD)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

That's kinda what I thought and that's the conclusion I think this was moving toward anyway.  So based on that, we can't go giving people copies of the OS or telling them how to get it if they don't already have a legitimate means.

Pretty much.

Way I see it is this...

  1. Discussion about...
  2. Discussion on how to...
  3. Discussion leading to distribution or means of distribution (releasing or receiving)...

2 and 3 being not complying with the EULA. 

16 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Meh. Ok

What does that mean? Suppose you dont really care and will continue to distribute until your probably never caught and feel good about yourself because you feel its a victim-less crime. I wont try and sway you differently but I am glad I know better than that and I have some understanding as to why that is (not in any way saying you do not).

 

But any way .... 

I feel hackintoshing is a thing for those who wish to do so, do so at their own risk. As always. I do not feel the forum is the place to discuss ways to do it and a means to attain it. Discussion about it is ok, just not how.  (like I feel about grey purchases of Windows keys...but that is another discussion for another topic, not this one) 

COMMUNITY STANDARDS   |   TECH NEWS POSTING GUIDELINES   |   FORUM STAFF

LTT Folding Users Tips, Tricks and FAQ   |   F@H & BOINC Badge Request   |   F@H Contribution    My Rig   |   Project Steamroller

I am a Moderator, but I am fallible. Discuss or debate with me as you will but please do not argue with me as that will get us nowhere.

 

Spoiler

  

 

Character is like a Tree and Reputation like its Shadow. The Shadow is what we think of it; The Tree is the Real thing.  ~ Abraham Lincoln

Reputation is a Lifetime to create but seconds to destroy.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.  ~ Winston Churchill

Docendo discimus - "to teach is to learn"

 

 CHRISTIAN MEMBER 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, SansVarnic said:

What does that mean?

It means ok and I’ll follow any rules the guidelines have listed. 

Laptop: 2019 16" MacBook Pro i7, 512GB, 5300M 4GB, 16GB DDR4 | Phone: iPhone 13 Pro Max 128GB | Wearables: Apple Watch SE | Car: 2007 Ford Taurus SE | CPU: R7 5700X | Mobo: ASRock B450M Pro4 | RAM: 32GB 3200 | GPU: ASRock RX 5700 8GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 11 | Storage: 1TB Crucial P3 NVME SSD, 1TB PNY CS900, & 4TB WD Blue HDD | PSU: Be Quiet! Pure Power 11 600W | Display: LG 27GL83A-B 1440p @ 144Hz, Dell S2719DGF 1440p @144Hz | Cooling: Wraith Prism | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G305 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball | Server: 2018 Core i3 Mac mini, 128GB SSD, Intel UHD 630, 16GB DDR4 | Storage: OWC Mercury Elite Pro Quad (6TB WD Blue HDD, 12TB Seagate Barracuda, 1TB Crucial SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda HDD)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

It means ok and I’ll follow any rules the guidelines have listed. 

ok thats cool. sorry i tantrum-ed.... /shrug

COMMUNITY STANDARDS   |   TECH NEWS POSTING GUIDELINES   |   FORUM STAFF

LTT Folding Users Tips, Tricks and FAQ   |   F@H & BOINC Badge Request   |   F@H Contribution    My Rig   |   Project Steamroller

I am a Moderator, but I am fallible. Discuss or debate with me as you will but please do not argue with me as that will get us nowhere.

 

Spoiler

  

 

Character is like a Tree and Reputation like its Shadow. The Shadow is what we think of it; The Tree is the Real thing.  ~ Abraham Lincoln

Reputation is a Lifetime to create but seconds to destroy.

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.  ~ Winston Churchill

Docendo discimus - "to teach is to learn"

 

 CHRISTIAN MEMBER 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

Pretty much.

Way I see it is this...

  1. Discussion about...
  2. Discussion on how to...
  3. Discussion leading to distribution or means of distribution (releasing or receiving)...

2 and 3 being not complying with the EULA.

[...]

I feel hackintoshing is a thing for those who wish to do so, do so at their own risk. As always. I do not feel the forum is the place to discuss ways to do it and a means to attain it. Discussion about it is ok, just not how.  (like I feel about grey purchases of Windows keys...but that is another discussion for another topic, not this one) 

I want to be very clear on this and make sure there's a common understanding on these points:

  • Helping people install MacOS on non-apple hardware: This violates Apple's EULA but is in no way illegal so we allow it and don't care
  • Helping people get a copy of MacOS who do not actually own a Mac and thus do not have legitimate access to it: This violates Apple's EULA, but more importantly, it also violates copyright law which is not something we can allow for the same reasons we cannot allow piracy.

Agree or disagree?

Solve your own audio issues  |  First Steps with RPi 3  |  Humidity & Condensation  |  Sleep & Hibernation  |  Overclocking RAM  |  Making Backups  |  Displays  |  4K / 8K / 16K / etc.  |  Do I need 80+ Platinum?

If you can read this you're using the wrong theme.  You can change it at the bottom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I want to be very clear on this and make sure there's a common understanding on these points:

  • Helping people install MacOS on non-apple hardware: This violates Apple's EULA but is in no way illegal so we allow it and don't care
  • Helping people get a copy of MacOS who do not actually own a Mac and thus do not have legitimate access to it: This violates Apple's EULA, but more importantly, it also violates copyright law which is not something we can allow for the same reasons we cannot allow piracy.

Agree or disagree?

I agree, but for obvious reasons, people don't always know that free software (not open source, "freeware") also has copyright for redistribution, in every case when use a licensed proprietary software, you are not free to do what you want. You basically have a contract with them.

If you download any freeware software for example, and re-upload for your own, you are most of the time not allowed to share it with others through every distribution method (CDs, USB drivers, cloud services) unless they are only for your own use (or fair use) 

With Apple the EULA is clear, you could only use it on an existent apple hardware. That's why I prefer open source software, but I'm not going to be OT.

You could only use their own open source OS Darwin but the experience will be like...Any linux OS I think. The installation method is the same, the EULA is just with the entire Apple OS, it's funny because the open source darwin OS has the same "hackish" installation method as the actual Mac OS (Using modified kexts) where they modify the open source part of the system, so the "hackintosh" question will be unanswered forever (maybe ?)

Oh, anyway as far as I know, the Apple dmg's are not even bootable also on VM's, you will need an EFI bootloader as well like Clover (I don't know about parallels, maybe it is possible in there) 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×