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Xeon W-3175X (the "5GHz" 28 core) uses paste rather than solder

Jurrunio
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Searched for "W-3175X solder paste" and found no results of this old news, surprisingly. Maybe just me or the search function being incapable?

 

Source: 

 

Gordon from PCWorld is doing a review with Anand Srivatsa, VP & SM Desktop, Systems & Channel Group at Intel in this part of the video. Srivatsa said

Quote

just to clarify, so the X series product line and our 9th gen products, the ones we announced today (that is, the date of the recordings) have solder too. The 28 core (W-3175X) is actually not on solder. ... It's one of those decisions that you have to make on a product-to-product basis that 28 core (W-3175X) product is a derivative of our Skylake-X server family products so continues to use our polymer TIM.

 

I won't start a rant on using paste with every CPU they make, that's the (ridiculous) norm they started since X299. What I do get mad on is their lack of common sense: They judge whether a CPU needs solder or is fine with paste based on whether it's a consumer product or a server product, rather than its TDP. Like seriously, Coffee Lake Refresh (unlocked 6 and 8 cores) are 95W parts and soldered, Skylake-X 'reheated' are all 165w parts and soldered, then W-3175X with 255w TDP is totally fine with paste because it bears the Xeon name that saves it from the need of solder to get rid of the heat.

 

I'm sorry Intel, thermodynamics don't work that way. Just because the lid got bigger doesnt help the fact that the W-3175X's core count raised the heat density of such CPU to be higher than Skylake-X 'optimal-form'. Unlike Threadripper which can lower its heat density by separating the glued dies further apart for cooling, your Skylake chips can't do that.

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

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Paste vs Solder has to be decided when they do the Fabrication. Since the 28c is going to be just a binned version of their Server part, they couldn't do solder. The 14nm++ run of Skylake-X refresh getting solder is simply for clocks, so they decided that one early into the process because of what they'd be able to bin out of the parts. It's the reason the 8 core 9th Gen will be soldered but the 8th gen parts won't be.

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1 hour ago, GoldenLag said:

doesnt the 28 core purely exist to counter the 32 coar threadripper? since that is the case, then this isnt all that surprising.

 

will stores even stock these?

They'll have to price it at 2 grand or less to even make it competitive, so I highly doubt this 28 core will really steal that much of the 2990WX's thunder.

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3 minutes ago, NelizMastr said:

They'll have to price it at 2 grand or less to even make it competitive, so I highly doubt this 28 core will really steal that much of the 2990WX's thunder.

i love that intel is taking up the challenge, but this is just more expencive in every way. you need extra ramsticks not to mention a very heavy duty motherboard.

 

i thought the MSI MEG Creation had nice VRMs.................

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MSI-MEG-X399-VRM-Breakdown.thumb.jpg.8b331e2e1fcbfd3d19d055020961e1ec.jpgeach VRM is about 60 AMPs i believe

 

Edited by GoldenLag
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4 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

i love that intel is taking up the challenge, but this is just more expencive in every way. you need extra ramsticks not to mention a very heavy duty motherboard.

 

i thought the MSI MEG Creation had nice VRMs.................

Those VRMs are a meme. It reminds me of this:

Gerelateerde afbeelding

 

I'd be willing to bet it'll cost like 4-5 grand.

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soldering vs paste has to be decided in the moment of designing the cpu, as the diffusion layer has to be adjusted and other coatings have to be applied, I recommend de8aurer vids about soldering 

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22 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

When did they stop using solder in Xeons?

They haven't. The Skylake-X line of Xeons, known as Xeon W, is different to Skylake-SP enterprise Xeons which are still soldered. Nice and confused now? ?

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cheapskate intel, thats how they made those billions, ofcourse 1 gram of crap paste bought from china costs 0.01$, while soldering process perchip would probably add 10$+ to cost

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21 minutes ago, yian88 said:

cheapskate intel, thats how they made those billions, ofcourse 1 gram of crap paste bought from china costs 0.01$, while soldering process perchip would probably add 10$+ to cost

More like 2 bucks but yea. Gotta make those shareholder gainz

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1 hour ago, leadeater said:

They haven't. The Skylake-X line of Xeons, known as Xeon W, is different to Skylake-SP enterprise Xeons which are still soldered. Nice and confused now? ?

Yeah really confused considering they’re the exact same chip but for some reason use paste on one and solder on the other. Oh boy I’m interested in seeing how a 28 core Intel runs with paste under the IHS ?..

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1 hour ago, schwellmo92 said:

Yeah really confused considering they’re the exact same chip but for some reason use paste on one and solder on the other. Oh boy I’m interested in seeing how a 28 core Intel runs with paste under the IHS ?..

I'm sure it will be delidded before any serious overclocking attempts, but what a nuisance when you spent so much on a CPU already and still need to delid it yourself. It's like buying a genuine Rolls Royce, but having it arrive in pieces and you have to assemble it yourself.

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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6 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

doesnt the 28 core purely exist to counter the 32 coar threadripper?

Price wise it's probably going to compete with the EPYC line - which means it's already hopelessly outgunned, since a 64 core EPYC is coming soon.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

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Sauron'stm Product Scores:

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Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

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A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

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From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

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A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

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Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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If anything it'd be less risky to solder the xeons than the 9th gen cpus because of the larger die. Wtf is intel thinking.

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Just now, Sauron said:

Price wise it's probably going to compete with the EPYC line - which means it's already hopelessly outgunned, since a 64 core EPYC is coming soon.

This 28 core is probably around 3500-5000$

 

We have no good confirmation on 64 epyc other than a 9 die config or larger 5 die config perhaps. Dunno we will see at CES next year

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1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

This 28 core is probably around 3500-5000$

 

We have no good confirmation on 64 epyc other than a 9 die config or larger 5 die config perhaps. Dunno we will see at CES next year

We have a leaked 13k cinebench score and some layout shots from chiphell, which is usually pretty spot on.

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What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Sauron said:

We have a leaked 13k cinebench score and some layout shots from chiphell, which is usually pretty spot on.

Links?

 

Not heard of these 7nm news. 

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6 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Links?

 

Not heard of these 7nm news. 

https://www.chiphell.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1916028&page=1&mobile=2

 

there were more but I can't find the links right now

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

It's like buying a genuine Rolls Royce, but having it arrive in pieces and you have to assemble it yourself.

It would probably be worth more while being more reliable.

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No solder is probably better from an enthusiast perspective.  You're either going to not overclock this chip at all and buy it as a "cheap" 28 core that isn't AMD.  Or you're going to have infinite tech budget to delid and overclock this thing balls to the wall.  Direct die cooling is as good as you can get.

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Solder usually requires an expansion buffer so it doesnt delaminate from the IHS during thermal cycling. That buffer material is usually pure gold. 

 

More cycles tend to delaminate the solder faster too. Consumer parts that run at peaky loading, along with being turned off entirely, would have many more hot cold cycles than a server, which typically runs 24/7.

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Just now, Amazonsucks said:

Solder usually requires an expansion buffer so it doesnt delaminate from the IHS during thermal cycling. That buffer material is usually pure gold. 

 

More cycles tend to delaminate the solder faster too. Consumer parts that run at peaky loading, along with being turned off entirely, would have many more hot cold cycles than a server, which typically runs 24/7.

so? Not like people arent willing to pay more for a soldered CPU.

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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27 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

so? Not like people arent willing to pay more for a soldered CPU.

Uh huh, do you read the forums? People complain about price constantly and cut corners on parts to save a few bucks. 

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11 minutes ago, Amazonsucks said:

Uh huh, do you read the forums? People complain about price constantly and cut corners on parts to save a few bucks. 

uh huh, did you read the title of this post? People buying the 28 core W-3175X wont be caring about 'saving money'. You need to swim in money to consider this CPU in the first place.

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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