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Just curious why don't any over clockers use any refrigerant instead of only liquid

Just thinking on the hvac side of the field I don't understand why any people in my field could make an aio system using gases and not liquid.

 

The first thing I see is no need for a pump if done right. 

And you could cool quicker and better if finding the right Gas and pressure.

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2 minutes ago, Dabkevinhere said:

Gas and pressure.


There is a bit more risk and safety involved with this.

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I'm sorry I'm new to this forum. Was there a link I'm missing?

 

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I just thought if made right someone could make a aio system with it safely. And I think it would be safer for a consumer use as liquid gets bad and if leaking a gas would evaporat out.

 

I don't want to sound like an ideot but I am an hvac graduate I just wouldn't know the benefits of having low thermals.

 

I would suspect it's more the regulations in my field that stop company's as it is highly restricted to a point you need a license to work with the gases or liquids in some cases

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Ya I see alot of that in overlooking but personally I think it's just because it's a more commen gas so anyone can get access to it. 

Does anyone who uses nitrogen ever hear anything other then that gas or liquid that people have used?

 

Also why impractical?

We use alot of liquids and gases every day I don't see why someone wouldn't make a different mixture.

Edited by Dabkevinhere
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4 minutes ago, Dabkevinhere said:

highly restricted

Yes, and restricted for a reason right, and you'd have that restricted system in your office or bedroom.

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1 minute ago, Canada EH said:

and you'd have that restricted system in your office or bedroom.

If your house has any kind of a/c your sleeping next to alot more to cool your whole house

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ac's are professionally installed, and outside unless you have a smaller window unit or room unit.

Also and a very valid point is your refridgerant to cool a cpu, is easily accessible!

easily bend piping

easily unscrew/unbolt the line

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You could use a very small amount like your window a/c unit. And that's for like 300squft 

I just honestly believe it's saver

Could me made safer

And long laster

 

There's nothing unsafe about most of the gases are safe in small amouts

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Yes I understand ac units are professionally installed but I as a licensed hvac worker could sell you anything that's a " sealed unit"

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4 hours ago, Dabkevinhere said:

I would suspect it's more the regulations in my field that stop company's as it is highly restricted to a point you need a license to work with the gases or liquids in some cases 

thats probably the best explanation,  the service people i have talked to that do gas/fridge work in the kitchen industry here and other people i know that have access to other controlled things,  a Phase change  system would be heavy and loud to make into a consumer product,  and i cant think of a common refrigerant that  any one can just go out and buy.

 

I bet there are companies out there that have built special rooms for this purpose.   

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Most phase change systems are actually quite small. Like the the one for your house called a tvc (my professor is going to hate me if I named that wrong lol) is quite small and is just a hole so only liquid make it to the high end of the system and that's for a house. And we are talking about a 2x2 in cpu at 100wats about. The system and amount out of gas needed for that would be small as I figure it wouldn't be more then 5000btu/h

And I would estimate it would only need about 1/8 to 1/4 of a pound of gas on the high end 

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yes,  but all the external mounting/maintenance  is what i mean,  i agree that you could get really good controllable results,  but this is just not a practical application for most users that need additional cooling.    plus compared to adequate options available  the difference in  upfront investment cost is significant.   lets say you found the right enthusiast  and they were running multiple rig in the same room and happened to have not watched the Linus debacle that was whole-room-out-door-water-cooling.

 

 

also since the extreme overclocks are rarely left to run a system constantly the need for something like this diminish's in my opinion. There are options available to get the high clock records and such.  Also i noticed 4-5 years ago they stopped making stuff 'faster' and started to maintain speed/performance and reduce size.    Leading to the point where now we have smaller parts that put out less heat.   I think even for the over clockers the easiest bet is to move to somewhere with central air, or be like Jayztwocents and  modify the standalone A/C unit for that test run. 

 

 

What you describe what do you think the exterior size would be?  like 1'x1'x6-8" deep?

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I think you could make an aio unit as small as the size as a 240 rad with fans. And not in a wall you would make a unit look exactly like what's on market now no other changes would be needed other then stronger piping to hold the pressure but the rad would stay the same same fans same block. Same stuff just fitting would have to be pressure rated to about 200max psi but I think most gases in this application would be under 100psi

And this would fit in your system with the benefits of maybe not needing a pump so some electricity is saved and not liquid not going bad and if something brakes gas would evaporat out instead of finding a puddle of liquid in your pc

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how flexible is the hose that could handle this pressure?  would it be as easy to install as current AIO?   also if you expect a 100 psi  i would over kill the hose a little more by maybe 25% that way it would not be a fail point.

Then the problem exists how much tinkering could a unit handle with fittings that could also hold those pressures in the loop.   would they be solder/brazed or would it remain serviceable somewhat.

as far as i know the smaller copper tube would be better for a phase change  but that would make it tough to install.

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I know this is ghetto but this is something I have seen if the field by bad installers. You know that steal braided hoses used to connect toilet's and under sinks. I need people use that to hold the pressures of a house and not leak. If one was made for hvac I don't see why a hose like that couldn't work. And we have fittings already made for those pressures  rated for like 400psI plus I think is the minimum that are made for safty

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that does sound ghetto, but make it all gunmetal and call it the t2000 edition computer. skynet level.

 

so you think a normal person could move the stuff around and install it themselves with out damaging it?

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I honestly believe you could make one that would exactly resemble what is on the market today other then the hoses 

 

And any person would be able to install as it would mount the same as any other radiator as that is all still the same.

 

The biggest problem I see is fixing it if something happens and the public doesn't have access to the gas only someone like me or a company would. So if it ever broke or leaked. You would either have to sent it to the company who made it to refill and fix or you would have to hire an hvac guy to charge it.

 

The only thing that would be hard and need alot of testing is the right Gas and pressure. But good thing that information if very documented and available.

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49 minutes ago, Dabkevinhere said:

I honestly believe you could make one that would exactly resemble what is on the market today other then the hoses 

 

And any person would be able to install as it would mount the same as any other radiator as that is all still the same.

 

The biggest problem I see is fixing it if something happens and the public doesn't have access to the gas only someone like me or a company would. So if it ever broke or leaked. You would either have to sent it to the company who made it to refill and fix or you would have to hire an hvac guy to charge it.

 

The only thing that would be hard and need alot of testing is the right Gas and pressure. But good thing that information if very documented and available.

People do it. But a natural convection phase change system is going to be way less effective than a forced convection system of the same nature. 

 

Anyways, der8auer is working with one of the major component manufacturers on making something exactly like this. It's just expensive and not any more or less practical.

 

 

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This is exactly what I was thinking about exept without a tank to hold the liquid.

 

I'm not going to lie tho calling it a phase change grinds my gears. I understand it makes sense but just I work with these gases and if anyone told me the phase of the liquid changed I would laugh so hard. 

 

Thank you so much for the video I will be looking more into this

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its phase change under pressure no?  so if there is sufficient pressure the  liquid doesn't gas but can handle additional cooling displacement ability  thats why you need those 100 psi tubes/seals

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Just now, Dabkevinhere said:

This is exactly what I was thinking about exept without a tank to hold the liquid.

 

I'm not going to lie tho calling it a phase change grinds my gears. I understand it makes sense but just I work with these gases and if anyone told me the phase of the liquid changed I would laugh so hard. 

 

Thank you so much for the video I will be looking more into this

I'm also an engineer with a strong thermal-hydraulics background. It is a liquid at these conditions without heat-load. It boils and transfers the heat back via condensation. Phase change is not only understandable, but the most accurate term for this loop. A (relatively) pure liquid/gas loop without significant quality changes in the loop would be even less effective, though yes it is technically feasible for sure.

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1 minute ago, Neo-revo said:

its phase change under pressure no?  so if there is sufficient pressure the  liquid doesn't gas but can handle additional cooling displacement ability  thats why you need those 100 psi tubes/seals

Depending on the fluid properties and heat load (thus gas fraction) the pressure doesn't actually have to be that high. But it definitely is more complicated to spec and a system like that.

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