Linux Dev's threaten to pull killswitch over CoC (somewhat clickbaity title)

[imreloadin]

34 minutes ago, NowakVulpix said:

It affects my ability to live? It affects my ability to hold my boyfriend's hand in public without getting stabbed? Even if they don't act upon their intolerance, that doesn't help me or anyone else get the equality we, as humans, deserve.

You could just as easily get stabbed because you decided to wear the color orange that day. If that happened does the fact that you were stabbed based on that person's belief suddenly make the right to wear orange as high a priority issue as equality for everyone? Apparently I'm the only person conservative enough to want the government out of marriage entirely, so no tax benefits or other legal privileges (aside from any contract that is entered into among the parties involved that is) for marriage at all and I say this as a currently married individual. Then your marriage is only between you, your significant other(s), and whatever "god" or lack thereof of your choosing.

35 minutes ago, NowakVulpix said:

Do you really think that because sexual discrimination is a criminal offense or a violation of the CoC, people would not do it? I find the other CoC the Ruby dev posted far better, because it does explicitly mention that sexual discrimination (among other bad things) is not allowed.

Ok, so you're saying that it being illegal or a violation of the CoC won't solve the problem. What in your opinion would then? The fact that you say that it being illegal isn't enough so that means that fines are out as an option which only leaves prison or capital punishment as forms of recourse, so which do you would pick?

[Sauron]

34 minutes ago, MyInnerFred said:

People who refuse to be tolerant should not be tolerated is essentially fighting intolerance with intolerance. I don't find that to be the most efficient way to fight intolerance. You are responsible for your own views on tolerance and intolerance, you are not responsible for other people's personal views on what they are tolerant or intolerant of. 

Being intolerant in your own head is functionally identical to being tolerant, that's not what I'm referring to. When I say we probably shouldn't tolerate the intolerant I'm referring to people who are actively intolerant and would try and force others out of the group if left unchecked. I can't think of any way of solving that situation that doesn't involve kicking the actively intolerant person out.

[Fred Castellum]

33 minutes ago, NowakVulpix said:

Bristol County, MA. We got meth labs, racists, homophobes and no opportunity unless you wanna be a factory worker. Wonderful place, really /s

Time to move

[Nowak]

Just now, MyInnerFred said:

Time to move

Wish I was in a position to, honestly.

[thedude4bides]

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

Honestly I think hating isn't any more than a strong opinion. Again if you don't act on that hate then everything is fine. 

The difference is hate is an emotion and opinions are intellectual thoughts.  The interplay between thoughts and emotions creates a correlation that can be caused by either.  Emotions can form opinions and your opinions can create emotional response.  Controlling either has not become a top priority for most people these days.

[bitsandpieces]

2 hours ago, NowakVulpix said:

Homophobia is intolerance, yes. A tolerant society should reject intolerance.

As long as it's your belief that is preached, damned if others have a different view

 

Quick random shower though: if no "wrong" is present how do you know what's right and what's wrong?

[Sky Spark]

Homophobia makes me sick.

Simply put, if you don't like me because I'm into dudes, don't talk to me.

That's what homophobia is, not liking someone because they're gay.

[KarathKasun]

14 minutes ago, Celli said:

Homophobia makes me sick.

Simply put, if you don't like me because I'm into dudes, don't talk to me.

That's what homophobia is, not liking someone because they're gay.

No, thats not what homophobia is.

 

Homophobia is having an irrational reaction to someone being gay, like beating them and dragging them behind a truck.

[Sky Spark]

1 minute ago, KarathKasun said:

No, thats not what homophobia is.

 

Homophobia is having a irrational reaction to someone being gay, like beating them and dragging them behind a truck.

That's even worse. 

[KarathKasun]

2 minutes ago, Celli said:

That's even worse. 

No, that is what homophobia is.  -phobia = irrational fear.

 

I lived through actual homophobia, hearing people say that just not liking someone because they are gay equates to homophobia sickens me.

[Nowak]

Gonna be honest here. I'm not even sure how to respond to this thread anymore.

[Sky Spark]

1 minute ago, KarathKasun said:

No, that is what homophobia is.  -phobia = irrational fear.

 

I lived through actual homophobia, hearing people say that just not liking someone because they are gay equates to homophobia sickens me.

Oh. I'm sorry.

[KarathKasun]

7 minutes ago, Celli said:

Oh. I'm sorry.

It just blows me away that words are so misused today, solely for the purpose of creating outrage.

 

Someone decides that they would rather not interact with gay/lesbian people overall, I can understand that.  The gay and lesbian communities are extremely toxic, and their reputation precedes them.  Many of these people just do not want to be involved in their drama and/or politics.  Also, its good to remember that real people are nothing like you see on internet comments pages.

[thedude4bides]

14 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

No, that is what homophobia is.  -phobia = irrational fear.

 

I lived through actual homophobia, hearing people say that just not liking someone because they are gay equates to homophobia sickens me.

I was just thinking about this the other day.  I imagined some happy go lucky walking down the street whistling their favorite tune and then all of a sudden they stop, break into a sweat, and cower in fear trembling as a gay couple nonchalantly walks by holding hands...

 

While I'm sure that's not how it goes and its much more serious than that... it was kinda funny creating that image in my head.

[KarathKasun]

6 minutes ago, thedude4bides said:

I was just thinking about this the other day.  I imagined some happy go lucky walking down the street whistling their favorite tune and then all of a sudden they stop, break into a sweat, and cower in fear trembling as a gay couple nonchalantly walks by holding hands...

 

While I'm sure that's not how it goes and its much more serious than that... it was kinda funny creating that image in my head.

That is humorous, but the reaction is not far off the mark.  People who are actually homophobic change demeanor drastically if they are around anyone who they know is gay.  Ive seen people actually grab their crucifixes and pray, though this was back in the late 80's/early 90's.

 

Its the irrational fear that drives people to hate some person or thing.

[Jito463]

3 hours ago, Sauron said:

Not quite - there's a difference between thinking that being gay is wrong and hating someone for being gay. You have a right to your viewpoint so long as it's not actively harmful to other people.

How is someone hating someone else, "actively harmful" to them?  I'm not asking if the hate is right or wrong, I'm asking how it causes any harm.  Sounds like 'thought police' to me, judging someone based on their opinions and personal thoughts.

Spoiler

I despite white supremacist groups like the Dem founded KKK, or black supremacist groups like NBP/BLM or hispanic supremacist groups like La Raza (literally: The Race); nevertheless, I support their rights to hold those views, so long as it doesn't translate into violence.  Just because someone has an opinion that you may disagree with - even to the point of them hating you for it - doesn't automatically make that opinion harmful.

 

Ironic that many of those claiming they want "tolerance" (which usually means acceptance, not tolerance), are typically the most intolerant among us.

[KarathKasun]

6 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

How is someone hating someone else, "actively harmful" to them?  I'm not asking if the hate is right or wrong, I'm asking how it causes any harm.  Sounds like 'thought police' to me, judging someone based on their opinions and personal thoughts.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I despite white supremacist groups like the Dem founded KKK, or black supremacist groups like NBP/BLM or hispanic supremacist groups like La Raza (literally: The Race); nevertheless, I support their rights to hold those views, so long as it doesn't translate into violence.  Just because someone has an opinion that you may disagree with - even to the point of them hating you for it - doesn't automatically make that opinion harmful.

 

Ironic that many of those claiming they want "tolerance" (which usually means acceptance, not tolerance), are typically the most intolerant among us.

It could be argued that all of the groups you have mentioned support direct calls to violent action, which is illegal.

 

Hatred is one thing, calling for people to do illegal things is another.

[Jito463]

4 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

It could be argued that all of the groups you have mentioned support direct calls to violent action, which is illegal.

Agreed, but I was specifically referring to their beliefs only, not any illegal or violent actions that may result.  There are others who hold to those beliefs who are not violent.  So long as it remains simply their opinion, I will tolerate (not accept) it, because it's their right to hold whatever opinion they want.

[Brooksie359]

2 hours ago, thedude4bides said:

The difference is hate is an emotion and opinions are intellectual thoughts.  The interplay between thoughts and emotions creates a correlation that can be caused by either.  Emotions can form opinions and your opinions can create emotional response.  Controlling either has not become a top priority for most people these days.

When someone asks you about your opinion on something a possible respond is that you hate it. It is an opinion imo. Anger and rage directed at someone is what I would call emotion. 

[KarathKasun]

2 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Agreed, but I was specifically referring to their beliefs only, not any illegal or violent actions that may result.  There are others who hold to those beliefs who are not violent.  So long as it remains simply their opinion, I will tolerate (not accept) it, because it's their right to hold whatever opinion they want.

Right, that distinction is important to be made.  Without physical confrontation, defamation/slander, or calls to violent action they are breaking no law and you cant do anything.

[Brooksie359]

8 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Agreed, but I was specifically referring to their beliefs only, not any illegal or violent actions that may result.  There are others who hold to those beliefs who are not violent.  So long as it remains simply their opinion, I will tolerate (not accept) it, because it's their right to hold whatever opinion they want.

I have always thought this was weird logic. So many people think hate always leads to violence. I mean I have hated a specific person in the past but I never went and harmed them. I just avoided them. That's what alot of people do tbh. 

[Jito463]

1 minute ago, Brooksie359 said:

I have always thought this was weird logic. So many people think hate always leads to violence. I mean I have hated a specific person in the past but I never went and harmed them. I just avoided them. That's what alot of people do tbh. 

It goes back to a point I made above, that many people who claim that they want "tolerance", actually want acceptance.  Because the other person won't accept their viewpoint as valid, they become irrational and are themselves intolerant of the others opinion.

 

tolerance =/= acceptance

[thedude4bides]

12 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

When someone asks you about your opinion on something a possible respond is that you hate it. It is an opinion imo. Anger and rage directed at someone is what I would call emotion. 

Why do they hate it?  Because hate is an extreme emotional dislike.  

 

What I was pointing out was that the hate, or strong emotional dislike, could either be the cause of said opinion or could be the result of said opinion (formed on a belief basis).

 

[Jito463]

4 minutes ago, thedude4bides said:

Why do they hate it?  Because hate is an extreme emotional dislike.

If I say I hate the smell of sauerkraut, is that an "emotional dislike" or is that logical because of experience?  Hate doesn't only have to come from emotion.

[thedude4bides]

5 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

If I say I hate the smell of sauerkraut, is that an "emotional dislike" or is that logical because of experience?  Hate doesn't only have to come from emotion.

One of two things... either it's an over-extension of what the word "hate" actually means in your language or you really do have an emotional response...