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Linux Dev's threaten to pull killswitch over CoC (somewhat clickbaity title)

Message added by colonel_mortis

Please keep in mind that there are lots of different perspectives within our community, and the tech community in general. Just because someone is saying something that you disagree with, does not mean that they are inherently wrong or stupid, just that they are looking at this divisive issue from a different perspective. There are no right or wrong answers to this issue.

 

From our own Community Standards,

Quote
  • Ensure a friendly atmosphere to our visitors and forum members.
  • Encourage the freedom of expression and exchange of information in a mature and responsible manner.
  • "Don't be a dick" - Wil Wheaton.
  • "Be excellent to each other" - Bill and Ted.
  • Remember your audience; both present and future.
20 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Which is not in the CoC.

The outline for preferred status of participants is in the pledge...

Quote

In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.

It should read something like...

Quote

In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, with no exceptions.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Sauron said:

The purpose of the CoC is to warn members so the mods don't have to warn or ban people every day. They tell you more or less what they won't accept so you can avoid it.

Compare this CoC with the previous Code of Conflict, what part of the new CoC is not covered by "Be excellent to each other"?  If there is nothing new covered, why did it need a change?

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6 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Here's a quote from the CoC the project uses:

 

That is very dumb tbh. You pick the best candidate regardless of their background. I mean if you are just trying to force diversity it doesn't accomplish what is intended. They are using stereotypes and generalizations to advocate forced diversity. They assume that some from a certain group had more obstacles in their path purely based on their race. That's not always the case and is completely a case by case basis. If you want to help someone who has had issues in the past and needs help then that is fine. What's not fine is to use stereotypes to determine that people have had a harder life and deserve a handicap. That's a load of crap and needs to stop. If people really cared they would help people improve themselves to a point where they have the merit required to participate in a meaningful way. You help them rise to the challenge not lower the bar. 

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22 hours ago, Sniperfox47 said:

I mean developers *can* legally rescind their licenses and use that to effectively blackmail the software using their contributions. But how big of a jackass do you have to be to do that?

 

Both sides of this issue are acting like dumb children. Take out the explicit punishment part of the CoC to make it actually reasonable and stop threatening to destroy a project over something so fucking trivial.

They have been contributing for years for the reward of recognition but get banned because of a toxic ideology. They never got the reward, why should this new face of Linux get their code?

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10 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

The outline for preferred status of participants is in the pledge...

It should read something like...

 

 

Compare this CoC with the previous Code of Conflict, what part of the new CoC is not covered by "Be excellent to each other"?  If there is nothing new covered, why did it need a change?

I've asked him a few times why something like the Ruby CoC isn't strictly better than the current one and so far I have not received an answer.

 

 

For those wondering, this is the Ruby CoC:

Quote

This document provides community guidelines for a safe, respectful, productive, and collaborative place for any person who is willing to contribute to the Ruby community. It applies to all “collaborative space”, which is defined as community communications channels (such as mailing lists, submitted patches, commit comments, etc.).

  • Participants will be tolerant of opposing views.
  • Participants must ensure that their language and actions are free of personal attacks and disparaging personal remarks.
  • When interpreting the words and actions of others, participants should always assume good intentions.
  • Behaviour which can be reasonably considered harassment will not be tolerated.

It is so much better, and I would like to hear what objection @Sauron would have to it. I think this is far superior. It covers all the good parts about the current Linux CoC (which is basically "be excellent to each other"), it doesn't have any of the rigid punishments (which are designed to push people who disagree with certain political views out of the group), and it says you need to be tolerant of opposing views, which goes both ways (rather than heavily favoring one side like the current CoC).

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19 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

The outline for preferred status of participants is in the pledge...

It should read something like...

That makes no difference. At all. They simply make some examples of what doesn't matter. Is this what will destroy Linux?

20 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

Compare this CoC with the previous Code of Conflict, what part of the new CoC is not covered by "Be excellent to each other"?  If there is nothing new covered, why did it need a change?

So you're saying it's the same as the old one, yet it's absolutely outrageous and must be changed? I never said the CoC needed to change, but now that it HAS changed I'm at least ok with it. You guys are the ones saying it's intolerable.

 

2 minutes ago, Gdog said:

They have been contributing for years for the reward of recognition but get banned because of a toxic ideology. They never got the reward, why should this new face of Linux get their code?

"This new face of Linux"

 

what are you even talking about? Literally nothing changed except the wording of the CoC. As for not getting the "reward", don't THEY use Linux? The whole idea is that people contribute to make the kernel better for everyone, it's not a competition or a job. If that is your mentality when contributing, then the project is better off without you OR your code - you just don't get to force them to remove it after you wrote it and the rest of the community started building on it.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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Just now, LAwLz said:

I've asked him a few times why something like the Ruby CoC isn't strictly better than the current one and so far I have not received an answer.

I thought I made myself clear on this, obviously not - it doesn't matter if the ruby CoC is better. You're saying the Linux CoC is catastrophically bad and it endangers the kernel, I'm saying that's nonsense. I won't be dragged into a completely separate debate about what CoCs are better or worse. I never said you are wrong about this - I said it's irrelevant.

3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

it doesn't have any of the rigid punishments (which are designed to push people who disagree with certain political views out of the group), and it says you need to be tolerant of opposing views, which goes both ways (rather than heavily favoring one side like the current CoC).

There are no set punishments in the Linux CoC. That's a false interpretation of written English. As for the "purpose" they were designed for, that's pure propaganda - unless your "political views" include harassment and discrimination, you shouldn't have any problems following the new guidelines. I know you'll quote the author saying it is a political document, and once again I'll repeat that it doesn't matter who wrote it or what they think - the CoC is its own entity and must be judged separately from its author.

 

Please refer me to the part of the CoC that "heavily favours one side" in your opinion. I'm really curious, considering it never says anything about anyone not being included or being considered more important than anyone else. The only thing it does speak against is harassment and general asshattery; is that the side it's "biased" against?

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I thought I made myself clear on this, obviously not - it doesn't matter if the ruby CoC is better. You're saying the Linux CoC is catastrophically bad and it endangers the kernel, I'm saying that's nonsense. I won't be dragged into a completely separate debate about what CoCs are better or worse. I never said you are wrong about this - I said it's irrelevant.

There are no set punishments in the Linux CoC. That's a false interpretation of written English. As for the "purpose" they were designed for, that's pure propaganda - unless your "political views" include harassment and discrimination, you shouldn't have any problems following the new guidelines. I know you'll quote the author saying it is a political document, and once again I'll repeat that it doesn't matter who wrote it or what they think - the CoC is its own entity and must be judged separately from its author.

 

Please refer me to the part of the CoC that "heavily favours one side" in your opinion. I'm really curious, considering it never says anything about anyone not being included or being considered more important than anyone else. The only thing it does speak against is harassment and general asshattery; is that the side it's "biased" against?

I'd sort of be on board with what you are arguing except for the glaring example of Larry Garfield... sorry but this whole CoC reeks of a bad faith and surreptitious play to arm ideological SJW types with power to enforce their ideology in areas it doesn't belong... under the guise of "fairness".

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2 minutes ago, thedude4bides said:

I'd sort of be on board with what you are arguing except for the glaring example of Larry Garfield... sorry but this whole CoC reeks of a bad faith and surreptitious play to arm ideological SJW types with power to enforce their ideology in areas it doesn't belong...

I don't really see how Garfield is in any way connected to this... if you mean the guy I think you do, the whole controversy around him happened back in march and he wasn't a Linux developer (or at least, that's not what he got kicked out of).

 

I think you're being paranoid about supposed "sjw types" with such a strangle hold on power across areas they don't belong... that's mostly propaganda. Sure, there are some crazy "social justice" types but they aren't nearly as many as some loud people would have you believe.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I don't really see how Garfield is in any way connected to this... if you mean the guy I think you do, the whole controversy around him happened back in march and he wasn't a Linux developer (or at least, that's not what he got kicked out of).

 

I think you're being paranoid about supposed "sjw types" with such a strangle hold on power across areas they don't belong... that's mostly propaganda. Sure, there are some crazy "social justice" types but they aren't nearly as many as some loud people would have you believe.

You seem smart enough to connect the dots.  And if you're not, my bad.  

 

Paranoid?  Propaganda?  Don't think so.  There are very real threats from that side, just as there are from the other.  This isn't the place to hash them out but wake up, dude...

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7 minutes ago, thedude4bides said:

You seem smart enough to connect the dots.  And if you're not, my bad. 

Right, if I disagree with you I must be stupid. Way to avoid backing up any of your claims.

9 minutes ago, thedude4bides said:

Paranoid?  Propaganda?  Don't think so.  There are very real threats from that side, just as there are from the other.  This isn't the place to hash them out but wake up, dude...

I used to think that way for a brief time a few years ago. Then I woke up. The reality of it is that you have nothing to say regarding the CoC itself, you're just automatically against it because you think it represents a conspiracy theory you've been spoonfed. I don't think this conversation is going anywhere, I just hope you'll think about what I said and maybe question your beliefs a little; it can't hurt.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Right, if I disagree with you I must be stupid. Way to avoid backing up any of your claims.

I used to think that way for a brief time a few years ago. Then I woke up. The reality of it is that you have nothing to say regarding the CoC itself, you're just automatically against it because you think it represents a conspiracy theory you've been spoonfed. I don't think this conversation is going anywhere, I just hope you'll think about what I said and maybe question your beliefs a little; it can't hurt.

It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing... take any position you want on the appropriateness of what happened to Garfield, but to claim the analogous nature of that situation to this one requires a stretch of the imagination is willful ignorance.

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42 minutes ago, thedude4bides said:

It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing... take any position you want on the appropriateness of what happened to Garfield, but to claim the analogous nature of that situation to this one requires a stretch of the imagination is willful ignorance.

I suppose we all see what we want to see. Nobody has been kicked out of the Linux community following the CoC change or for any reason resembling Garfield's case (as far as I know) and the event happened half a year ago in a different community with different people. Don't get me wrong - I understand why you are making the connection. I just don't think you have a point.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Sauron said:

I suppose we all see what we want to see. Nobody has been kicked out of the Linux community following the CoC change or for any reason resembling Garfield's case (as far as I know) and the event happened half a year ago in a different community with different people. Don't get me wrong - I understand why you are making the connection. I just don't think you have a point.

...or don't see what we don't want to see.  Yes.  Agreed on that.  

 

And it's not me who made the connection.  It's out there as a top concern from folks against this whole notion.

 

What I haven't seen, and I'd love to be educated on... scratch that... I'll ask another way...

 

What was so broken in the Linux community that required an external ideological entity to come barging in demanding to dictate CoC?  

 

 

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22 hours ago, asus killer said:

American nonsense. Sorry but it's the truth.

 

In most countries a person commits a robbery period, in the US they tell you the color of the person that commits a robbery.

Not a US only thing TBH. :S

22 hours ago, Sauron said:

Nobody gets "hired" by the kernel maintainers

I know, I was talking about this in general, not just in this case. 

22 hours ago, Drak3 said:

That's an answer that is highly political.

True, I guess.

21 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

You're too normal to understand. You live in the real world and probably have never heard about all the bad things from the "Gender Studies" department. Sadly I have to crush your world and try to explain this shit:

 

The Reason for this is the 

And the "Oppression Ladder", where the "White Cis Male" is THE Oppressor of everybody. And because the "White Cis Male" Oppresses everybody, they stand at the top. And because of the Oppresion, they keep everyone else down and one has to do something about that. We need to limit the power the cis white males, because they are the Oprressors and bring in females and people of color. Because they want Equity, not equal oppurtunity.

 

 

DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK,#NSFL!!

^ that's a bit detailed explanation of this theory.


I obviously do not believe in that. But there are a couple of people that do. And they are trying to force their way in here...

Hmmmmmm. One word: omegalul.

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K | Motherboard: AsRock X99 Extreme4 | Graphics Card: Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 Gaming | RAM: 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws4 2133MHz | Storage: 1 x Samsung 860 EVO 1TB | 1 x WD Green 2TB | 1 x WD Blue 500GB | PSU: Corsair RM750x | Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro (White) | Cooling: Arctic Freezer i32

 

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1 hour ago, thedude4bides said:

What was so broken in the Linux community that required an external ideological entity to come barging in demanding to dictate CoC? 

Nobody barged in to anything, the Technical Advisory Board saw fit to change it and they seemingly thought this document would work just fine. Their motivation is their own, though Torvald's recent apology for what he considers in retrospect to be antisocial behaviour probably was part of what sparked the discussion internally. They probably just wanted to hold themselves up to slightly higher standards. Other than that, we don't know what goes on between members of the community in private chats; if the maintainers know about cases of harassment or discrimination, a handful of instances are probably enough to warrant a change - at least in their opinion.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Nobody barged in to anything, the Technical Advisory Board saw fit to change it and they seemingly thought this document would work just fine. Their motivation is their own, though Torvald's recent apology for what he considers in retrospect to be antisocial behaviour probably was part of what sparked the discussion internally. They probably just wanted to hold themselves up to slightly higher standards. Other than that, we don't know what goes on between members of the community in private chats; if the maintainers know about cases of harassment or discrimination, a handful of instances are probably enough to warrant a change - at least in their opinion.

 Agreed that there's internal information we don't/can't know and it's honestly not really worth speculating about but we do know they've been trying to impose this on Linux since at least 2015 and it was finally adopted 3 years later which coincidentally happened when Linus broke for whatever reason.  Sure, sounds like it wasn't forced at all to me.

 

Have to ask yourself: why would all the concern (or even outrage) be popping up if this is just to up the current standards?

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On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 11:20 AM, cj09beira said:

Activists from the feminist and LGBTQIA+ communities have been trying to force the Linux project  PUTS ON BRAKES....

enough said, fu** thoses snowflakes

 

 

I second this statement

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9 minutes ago, thedude4bides said:

 we do know they've been trying to impose this on Linux since at least 2015 and it was finally adopted 3 years later which coincidentally happened when Linus broke for whatever reason.

This change was most likely spearheaded, or at the very least entirely approved, by Torvalds. He signed it and it's in line with his latest statement on how he thinks his recent actions weren't acceptable. As for how long people have been pressuring the team to use it, again I don't really think it matters - the authors wrote the statement with the express purpose of using it in foss communities, it makes sense that they would want the largest foss project to use it. Torvalds and the TAB aren't pushovers, they won't be pressured into doing things they don't want to. Do you know for how long Torvalds has been pestered and pressured to start using C++, moving to GPL3 and plenty of other things? And yet he hasn't bulged. 3 years of pressure is nothing.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

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Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Sauron said:

This change was most likely spearheaded, or at the very least entirely approved, by Torvalds. He signed it and it's in line with his latest statement on how he thinks his recent actions weren't acceptable. As for how long people have been pressuring the team to use it, again I don't really think it matters - the authors wrote the statement with the express purpose of using it in foss communities, it makes sense that they would want the largest foss project to use it. Torvalds and the TAB aren't pushovers, they won't be pressured into doing things they don't want to. Do you know for how long Torvalds has been pestered and pressured to start using C++, moving to GPL3 and plenty of other things? And yet he hasn't bulged. 3 years of pressure is nothing.

Now speculation suits us.  Fine.  

 

I'll argue that now Torvalds is a pushover.  He finally broke.

 

Your point on C++ and 3 years being nothing supports this.

 

The fact you blatantly dismiss known and documented tactics employed to force CoC adoption is... an interesting choice to say the least.  

 

Not sure we'll get much further than that on the topic.  

 

Cheers to you, sir.

 

 

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Insanity, thy name is hate... if they aren't the same as you.

Please quote my post, or put @paddy-stone if you want me to respond to you.

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Serious question, is anyone actually taking what Richard Stallman says seriously?  Him and his GNU fetish.

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On 9/24/2018 at 3:16 PM, Sniperfox47 said:

Umm I'm not sure what you're talking about but Marxism is explicitly *against* segregating people by social class. I don't normally cite Wikipedia but I'm tired and don't feel like pulling exact quotes, so this can provide references to them for you: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxian_class_theory

Quote

Marx distinguishes one class from another on the basis of two criteria: ownership of the means of production and control of the labor powerof others. From this, Marx states "Society as a whole is more and more splitting up into two great hostile camps, into two great classes directly facing each other":

I. Capitalists, or bourgeoisie, own the means of production and purchase the labor power of others

II. Workers, or proletariat, do not own any means of production or the ability to purchase the labor power of others. Rather, they sell their own labor power.

Class is thus determined by property relations, not by income or status. These factors are determined by distribution and consumption, which mirror the production and power relations of classes.

The Manifesto of the Communist Party describes two additional classes that “decay and finally disappear in the face of Modern Industry”:

iii. A small, transitional class known as the petite bourgeoisie own sufficient means of production but do not purchase labor power. Marx's Communist Manifesto fails to properly define the petite bourgeoisie beyond “smaller capitalists” (Marx and Engels, 1848, 25).

iv. The “dangerous class”, or Lumpenproletariat, “the social scum, that passively rotting mass thrown off by the lowest layers of the old society.”

I think you mean Marxism doesn't use tradition class classifications that we are all used to: Low-middle-Upper class. But it segregated people into classes (e.g. Glorious Communist Brothers v Bourgeoisie)

 

Also, when talking about Marxism, you need to distinguish between Political and Economic, as they are very different.

 

 

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"Inject identity politics into anything and you can be assured it'll go down in flames"

RejZoR

 

Save this quote, you'll need it in the future. A lot.

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1 hour ago, Blake said:

I think you mean Marxism doesn't use tradition class classifications that we are all used to: Low-middle-Upper class. But it segregated people into classes (e.g. Glorious Communist Brothers v Bourgeoisie)

 

Also, when talking about Marxism, you need to distinguish between Political and Economic, as they are very different.

 

 

This isn't really on topic and we should probably keep the focus on the topic at hand.

 

All I'll say is that I explicitly said that they don't segregate people by *social* class. The Working Class concept in Marxism isnt the same as traditional social class.

 

Something something segway back into on topic conversation something something.

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14 hours ago, LAwLz said:

it says you need to be tolerant of opposing views

The problem with that is that, say, "I want to throw gays into an asylum, because it's wrong in the eyes of God and gays should be punished for it" isn't an opinion. That's something that directly affects my (and other LGBT people's) ability to live a good, fulfilling life. It's hatred.

 

That's a problem that I personally have with that CoC. It doesn't address sexual discrimination and instead says that we must be "tolerant" of "other views". I'm sorry but I refuse to accept homophobia as a "view".

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Please quote me so I can see that you replied.

 

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