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Linux Dev's threaten to pull killswitch over CoC (somewhat clickbaity title)

Message added by colonel_mortis

Please keep in mind that there are lots of different perspectives within our community, and the tech community in general. Just because someone is saying something that you disagree with, does not mean that they are inherently wrong or stupid, just that they are looking at this divisive issue from a different perspective. There are no right or wrong answers to this issue.

 

From our own Community Standards,

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  • Ensure a friendly atmosphere to our visitors and forum members.
  • Encourage the freedom of expression and exchange of information in a mature and responsible manner.
  • "Don't be a dick" - Wil Wheaton.
  • "Be excellent to each other" - Bill and Ted.
  • Remember your audience; both present and future.
2 hours ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Well you have to value her dedication to practicing the principles that she preaches :)

 

(A huge /s in case people can't infer it)

She was able to contradict herself in 4 words "Be nice. Fuck you"

Judge the product by it's own merits, not by the Company that created it.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Drak3 said:

The Chicken of Calamity.

Sounds like a bad night of Panda Express.

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2 minutes ago, Mooshi said:

Sounds like a bad night of Panda Express.

That's the Orange Chicken of Oh Crap.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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In the gulag archipelago, Solzhenitsyn described a narc culture. This reminds me of that. An accusation of 'wrong think' will cause a person to disappear. A lot of these activists/feminists/LGBTQ+ people appear to be open Marxists of varying degrees so this is ripe for conspiracy theories. But yea, narc culture is bad and in an open market it does result it the "get woke go broke" phenomena.

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2 hours ago, KarathKasun said:

GPL V2 has provisions for rescinding license for code.  Linux kernel is GPL V2 license.

 

GPL V3 has specific language to remove this right to rescind.

But that still hasn't been tested in court, And from how it sounds like they will try to assert the rescind of the license retroactively.  Which to me sounds rather improbable.

QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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6 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Can someone explain to me why it matters if a programmer is white, black, blue or if he/she/it identifies as an Apache Attack Helicopter? I still call that person a programmer.

 

They should just hire whoever is the best in the field regardless of race, gender etc.

Have you been living in a cave? The marxist world view splits people up into groups. In the past this was done by social class. The modern far-left do this by race/ethnicity, gender, and islam. They measure the financial and occupation differences between these groups and advocate for equity policies to create the appearance of equality. They basically view straight white men like how nazis view jews. Benjamin Boyce on youtube explains it much better than I can. He has many videos on it.

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4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

 

Coraline: People should be nice to each other

 

Also Coraline: Fuck you for actually making my CoC better and actually fair for everyone

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Well I'm gonna quote myself a bit here:

 

 

Don't be fooled by thinking "Omg le SJWs will kill muh penguin!"

Remember that the "PC" agenda is not necessarily tied to actually progressive people, what's happening here is a push to sanitize the FOSS software culture not for the benefit of Marxist college professors and Twitter revolutionaries. Remember that being more "PC" is a big part of corporate double talk about having socially responsible vision and values and blah, blah, blah.

 

Sanitizing away some people and "tokenism" is merely done so people can do, well this:

 

depositphotos_14965959-stock-photo-group-of-young-diversity.jpg.0d38e1df031647f85ee50b63ea90b06f.jpg

 

tl;dr - This is not "cultural marxism" it's just people trying to shape Linux into something Corporate AF.

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9 hours ago, yian88 said:

you cant win with SJW unless you remove them completely from the place they create problem

helicopter meme?

8 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

This shit is encouraging racism/sexism.

Straight white males are to SJWs as Jews are to white supremacists. In a podcast Bret Weinstein stated he observed this after the evergreen state meltdown.

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1 hour ago, GlobalPentahedron Corp said:

Have you been living in a cave? The marxist world view splits people up into groups. In the past this was done by social class. The modern far-left do this by race/ethnicity, gender, and islam. They measure the financial and occupation differences between these groups and advocate for equity policies to create the appearance of equality. They basically view straight white men like how nazis view jews. Benjamin Boyce on youtube explains it much better than I can. He has many videos on it.

Umm I'm not sure what you're talking about but Marxism is explicitly *against* segregating people by social class. I don't normally cite Wikipedia but I'm tired and don't feel like pulling exact quotes, so this can provide references to them for you: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxian_class_theory

 

Class theory in Marxism specifically states that class should be entirely determined by how much you contribute to society... It's literally the epitome of the FOSS Meritocracy. It's a working class, not a social class.

 

People who spout this crap about Marxism should actually read any kind of basic paper about *actual* Marxist theory...

 

The modern far left is about as far from Marxism as the far right is, neither side of which has any relation to this topic. The developers who contribute to these programs span the political spectrum, and threats to the sanctity that FOSS has fostered are coming from both ends right now.

 

How about instead of bickering like children we just aknowledge people on the basis of what they do and how they contribute. As I've mentioned before, a person who's a total monster elsewhere in life can still contribute positively to the FOSS community and those actions should be appreciated even if other things about them disgust us. A person who's a total saint can be a total tosser when it comes to contributing code, in which case we should tell them to back off, explain their mistake and help them redo it, regardless of how good a person they are otherwise.

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3 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Class theory in Marxism specifically states that class should be entirely determined by how much you contribute to society... It's literally the epitome of the FOSS Meritocracy. It's a working class, not a social class.

So we agree marxism measures differences between groups but we disagree in that there is marxist ideology behind current events. Is this correct?

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Marxism is explicitly *against* segregating people by social class.

I did not mean segregation. I meant splitting people statistically for the purpose of discovering oppressed & oppressor groups.

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4 minutes ago, GlobalPentahedron Corp said:

So we agree marxism measures differences between groups but we disagree in that there is marxist ideology behind current events. Is this correct?

 

 

The latter part is definitely correct.

 

But the first part seems to be I agree with the words, but I don't think I agree with how you mean them.

 

But I'll drop it since it's really not appropriate for this topic.

 

I think it's important that everyone here take a step back and realize that extremists are extremists. People like the Author of the CoC don't necessarily represent the people advocating for it. People like these dudes don't necessarily represent the people advocating against it. They certainly don't represent me.

 

This CoC is bad on its own grounds, it's just sad that these extremists are acting in a way that pushes people away from accepting that. It's no different from these "SJW" communities. People like the CoC's author are bad apples, but they're a relative minority. Because they're so loud and aggressive we seem to assume the other side is all that way and nobody actually talks of the people who are near the middle. We need to set the extremists aside, actually talk about these issues, and come up with a mutually agreeable compromise.

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2 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

they're a relative minority

Idiots will always have the loudest voices, but they are also found in positions of influence and authority. Its a shady tactic to climb into these positions and then start kicking people out and censoring people. Authoritarian & totalitarian are the best labels for them. SJW is a rebranding of these types for the internet age.

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Just now, GlobalPentahedron Corp said:

Idiots will always have the loudest voices, but they are also found in positions of influence and authority. Its a shady tactic to climb into these positions and then start kicking people out and censoring people. Authoritarian & totalitarian are the best labels for them. SJW is a rebranding of these types for the internet age.

Yep the problem with the rebranding is that it seems to focus on one side of the argument though. As this article shows there are "Idiots", "Authoritarians" and "Totalitarians" on both sides of most problems.

 

I can understand that people in positions of power likely represent those ideals and use them to further their influence, but that's exactly why both sides of these arguments need better communication and to actually discuss and resolve these problems.

 

Crazy extremists in positions of power only have power because people submit to them and continually relinquish power to them. If we start aknowledging them as bad apples and take back power, then they have no more influence.

 

So on that note let's bring it in. I think this stunt is absolutely insane and is abusive towards the other devs these dudes have worked alongside. I think the CoC as currently accepted is overreaching in it's specification of punishments. And I think that the Ruby devs solution is pretty elegant. But I also think even "Don't be a dick" would be more useful than the current CoC in terms of mitigating abuse.

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13 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

I often find these people to be the embodiment of racism.

 

So your weapon against racism is more racism? Huh.

or sexism, or a number of other -isms.

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Why can't everything just be a meritocracy?

 

Everything would be so much easier if it was just like "Do you do good work and make meaningful contributions? If so welcome aboard!"

What doesn't make any sense to me is that it's an open source projects, the only thing stopping you from making contributions is your own skill level and willingness to do the work. If your code is well written and useful it gets a spot at the table, if it doesn't then get better at it and try again.

 

All I ever hear about is people screaming about how "under-represented" certain classes are in a field, nobody ever stops to think that maybe different cultures/genders/etc value different things and have different interests and that leads to how skewed certain fields look. Nobody should have to put up with people if they suck at what they do no matter what flavor of human they are.

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6 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

All I ever hear about is people screaming about how "under-represented" certain classes are in a field,

welcome to your first class in intersectionality. Notice how no one complains about under-representation in dirty jobs? If they were genuine about lifting people up they would want to get more people into self employment and trades, but this would likely create more right wing libertarians. The most well off people I know are not working for corporations, they are self employed tradesmen. But this doesnt align with the far-left authoritarian agenda.

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1 minute ago, leadeater said:

But I really liked Idiocracy (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/), real life seems to be getting more and more like it.

little did they know they were creating a documentary that just so happened to star the future Secretary of Interior 

Judge the product by it's own merits, not by the Company that created it.

 

 

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1 minute ago, GlobalPentahedron Corp said:

welcome to your first class in intersectionality. Notice how no one complains about under-representation in dirty jobs? If they were genuine about lifting people up they would want to get more people into self employment and trades, but this would likely create more right wing libertarians. The most well off people I know are not working for corporations, they are self employed tradesmen. But this doesnt align with the far-left authoritarian agenda.

I know, can't remember the last time I saw a female garbage truck driver or plumber, if I've even seen one that is.

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Cancer spreads fast.

 

You have to eradicate it before it festers.

 

This post-truth movement should read about the Salem Witch Trials.Their hysteria is not that different.

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11 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

I know, can't remember the last time I saw a female garbage truck driver or plumber, if I've even seen one that is.

You just haven't been looking. I've seen plenty of both, not to mention in other traditionally male dominated trades. Heck, I've driven trucks, cranes, and forklifts back when I worked in warehousing. 

Jeannie

 

As long as anyone is oppressed, no one will be safe and free.

One has to be proactive, not reactive, to ensure the safety of one's data so backup your data! And RAID is NOT a backup!

 

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21 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

You just haven't been looking. I've seen plenty of both, not to mention in other traditionally male dominated trades. Heck, I've driven trucks, cranes, and forklifts back when I worked in warehousing. 

Well according to the US Department of Labor in 2016 females made up 1.4% of plumbers. Last time I checked 1.4% of a population does not equal "I just haven't been looking hard enough"...They do have a bit more prevalence in the trucking industry coming in at 9.6% but the crane operator position is even smaller coming in at 0.8%. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing or a good thing however. If a woman wants to be a plumber then be a plumber. It just brings to light the fact that apparently not many women WANT to be plumbers.

 

There are jobs on the opposite end of the spectrum that are dominated by women as well though. Take pre-school and kindergarten teachers for example, only 2.5% of them are men. Same goes for dental hygienists where only 2.9% are men. I've been to several different dentists over the course of my life in different parts of the US and haven't once seen a male dental hygienist, guess I haven't been looking for them either though...

 

Stats are from the below infographic:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-percentage-women-and-men-each-profession/GBX22YsWl0XaeHghwXfE4H/story.html?p1=Article_Inline_Bottom

Edited by imreloadin
Added source.
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