Potential Bottleneck in my first build? Need some advice!

[eth_jones]

Hey everyone,

 

I recenltly built my first PC. At the moment, I am usually just playing forntite on there, but I play some Tomb Raider and other games too. My framerate just seems really inconsistent and leads to poor gameplay. This is not network lag, as I am able to stream movies and make video calls without any issues, so I think there is a bottle neck when it comes to my GPU/CPU.

 

I have a GTX 1050 GPU and an Intel i5 4690k CPU. Neither are overclocked as my current mobo doesn't support it (something I didn't learn until after the build).

 

Just looking at that, can anyone spot any potential issues? What should I look into upgrading to resolve this? Is there any free software I can use to identify where the issue lies?

Thanks!!!

[monjessenstein]

The GPU is definitly the bottleneck. A 4690K is definitly enough for a 1070, probably even a 1080/1080ti is you're running at higher resolutions.

[Cereal5]

Download MSI Afterburner and monitor your CPU usage and GPU usage during the game. The GPU will likely be near 100%, but the CPU usage is what you really want to keep an eye on. Anything above 60% and you'll probably start seeing problems. Also, please list your full specs (or put them in your signature), and tell us what resolution your monitor is so we know what can be expected from your hardware.

[eth_jones]

7 minutes ago, monjessenstein said:

The GPU is definitly the bottleneck. A 4690K is definitly enough for a 1070, probably even a 1080/1080ti is you're running at higher resolutions.

Thanks for the quick response! What about if I buy a board that can overclock; would that take me into the range of an even better GPU?

 

6 minutes ago, Cereal5 said:

Download MSI Afterburner and monitor your CPU usage and GPU usage during the game. The GPU will likely be near 100%, but the CPU usage is what you really want to keep an eye on. Anything above 60% and you'll probably start seeing problems. Also, please list your full specs (or put them in your signature), and tell us what resolution your monitor is so we know what can be expected from your hardware.

Thanks @Cereal5, I will download this as soon as I get home. I have to play fortnite on all the lowest settings at the moment and still the FPS can range from 30 in action situations to 90 when just running around, so hopefully your advice will help me sort this one out. I play on my TV and I had to set a custom resolution through the geforce control panel but can't remember exactly what it all was.

 

My specs are: (and will add them to siganture after this too)

CPU: i5-4690K @ 3.5GHz || MoBo: Asus H81M-C || RAM: Either 8 or 16gb, can't remember off thetop of my head || Cooler: Stock intel cooler || GPU: NVIDIA GTX 1050 || PSU: Can't remember exactly but know it meets the needs of my components || Case: Recycled office PC Case || SSD: Kingston 120GB || Storage: WD Blue 1TB

[Shiftstealth]

25 minutes ago, eth_jones said:

Hey everyone,

 

I recenltly built my first PC. At the moment, I am usually just playing forntite on there, but I play some Tomb Raider and other games too. My framerate just seems really inconsistent and leads to poor gameplay. This is not network lag, as I am able to stream movies and make video calls without any issues, so I think there is a bottle neck when it comes to my GPU/CPU.

 

I have a GTX 1050 GPU and an Intel i5 4690k CPU. Neither are overclocked as my current mobo doesn't support it (something I didn't learn until after the build).

 

Just looking at that, can anyone spot any potential issues? What should I look into upgrading to resolve this? Is there any free software I can use to identify where the issue lies?

Thanks!!!

Delete

Edited September 19, 2018 by Shiftstealth

[Kur-o]

I would say you probably should upgrade you CPU or your SSD and or hardrive

 

[Jtalk4456]

2 hours ago, eth_jones said:

This is not network lag, as I am able to stream movies and make video calls without any issues

While I agree that there is a gpu bottleneck, it is not safe to assume that being able to stream video means your internet connection isn't the problem.

Keep in mind it only takes 5-10 mbps to stream video, 15 for 4k. And that's a pretty low speed that is not good for online gaming.

Also speed isn't always the issue, reliability is important. And with video streaming, it loads ahead of itself so there's no interruptions if internet blips out.

Where as in a game, a temporary loss of internet of a few seconds is very noticeable

[eth_jones]

24 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

While I agree that there is a gpu bottleneck, it is not safe to assume that being able to stream video means your internet connection isn't the problem.

Thanks man will bear this in mind. My broadband isn't the best but I think it should be sufficient for me and my household at roughly 50mbps. I will look into that though when I get home.

[Jtalk4456]

1 hour ago, eth_jones said:

Thanks man will bear this in mind. My broadband isn't the best but I think it should be sufficient for me and my household at roughly 50mbps. I will look into that though when I get home.

50 is decent, but like i said reliability is key in online gaming

[eth_jones]

@Jtalk4456 @Cereal5 @monjessenstein I've attached some photos of what MSI afterburner is telling me.. this is on a fortnite server with 1 other person, all the settings on low, and no other apps open. The 3 photos are within seconds of one another.

 

If my CPU was so close to 100% then wouldn't my whole system be slowing down and not just dropping frames?

[Jtalk4456]

21 minutes ago, eth_jones said:

@Jtalk4456 @Cereal5 @monjessenstein I've attached some photos of what MSI afterburner is telling me.. this is on a fortnite server with 1 other person, all the settings on low, and no other apps open. The 3 photos are within seconds of one another.

If my CPU was so close to 100% then wouldn't my whole system be slowing down and not just dropping frames?

well there's your problem right there, you're not playing minecraft...

ok for real, most games are more gpu bound, so hitting 100 on cpu might not kill the game

I'm bringing in some more knowledgeable guys

@TopHatProductions115 @Cinnabar Sonar @Densetsu @PCGuy_5960

[SHROUD]

10 hours ago, eth_jones said:

Hey everyone,

 

I recenltly built my first PC. At the moment, I am usually just playing forntite on there, but I play some Tomb Raider and other games too. My framerate just seems really inconsistent and leads to poor gameplay. This is not network lag, as I am able to stream movies and make video calls without any issues, so I think there is a bottle neck when it comes to my GPU/CPU.

 

I have a GTX 1050 GPU and an Intel i5 4690k CPU. Neither are overclocked as my current mobo doesn't support it (something I didn't learn until after the build).

 

Just looking at that, can anyone spot any potential issues? What should I look into upgrading to resolve this? Is there any free software I can use to identify where the issue lies?

Thanks!!!

Firstly, sell ur motherboard ND purchase a z97 motherboard. The currently go around fr about $80-90 on AliExpress.

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-z97-motherboard.html

Then, purchase a new GPU, like an RX 580 8gb. They go around fr about $230.

Purchase a decent cooler like cryorig h7, thermalright macho.....ND overclock ur cpu.

[Skanky Sylveon]

40 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

well there's your problem right there, you're not playing minecraft...

ok for real, most games are more gpu bound, so hitting 100 on cpu might not kill the game

I'm bringing in some more knowledgeable guys

@TopHatProductions115 @Cinnabar Sonar @Densetsu @PCGuy_5960

Blurry pic.

11 hours ago, eth_jones said:

Cooler: Stock intel cooler

Check your CPU's temps.

While a non overclocked CPU should do fine with a stock cooler, I have seen exceptions.

If the CPU is thermal throttling, that would explain things.

 

[Skanky Sylveon]

Sorry for the double post. (not really)

@eth_jones Here is the documentation for your motherboard.

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1150/H81M-C/E8447_H81M-C.pdf

As you can see, your motherboard only supports PCIe 2.0, your GPU is PCIe 3,0.

PCIe 3.0 is around double the bandwidth of PCIe 2.0.  However, from my testing with PCIe 3.0 x16 vs x8 (x8 is half the bandwidth of x16), I saw no difference with my GTX 1080 that wasn't within margin of error.

 

So, I don't think it's the issue, but it's worth looking in to.

Also.

 

[TopHatProductions115]

      1. Make sure your system is running with default performance settings (no GPU/RAM overclock).

      2. Make sure you have the latest EFI/BIOS for your motherboard, and the latest drivers for your GPU (along with other devices).

      3. Open Task Manager, and set it to the foreground.

      3. Run the following tests with your system 3x each, with 15-20 minutes rest between each:

• http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/
• https://benchmark.unigine.com/superposition?lang=en
• https://benchmark.unigine.com/valley?lang=en

      4. Monitor Task Manager throughout the tests, and note when either CPU or GPU either spikes or sustains 100 percent (pen and paper).

      5. Record your numbers here, for analysis. Your results and notes will determine whether this is due to 'silicon lottery', software, hardware defect, or settings/configuration.

[eth_jones]

@Cinnabar Sonar@Jtalk4456@TopHatProductions115@cereal5

 

Thanks all of you, I'm really overwhelmed by the support I am receiving on here! Ok so a few things:

 

1) I ran fortnite on my pc on a 3g dongle instead of my broadband, and the performance was almost exactly the same in terms of fps, gpu and cpu usage, despite the dongle being a 7mbps connection (Far slower than my home broadband)

2) I should probably have mentioned that I have a PS4 at home too on the wi-fi and online gaming has never been an issue.

3) I have monitored my CPU temp whilst in a server alone on Fortnite and it is consistent at 100C (I guess this is way too hot @Cinnabar Sonar?)

4) @TopHatProductions115 I will be running your recommended tests throughout the day and will get back to you with results ASAP

 

@SHROUD thanks so much for your advice. I'm sure you can probably tell from my specs that this was built on quite a budget haha so these upgrades will probably be something for later on down the line. I will keep them in mind!

 

Thanks again all of you

[Skanky Sylveon]

36 minutes ago, eth_jones said:

3) I have monitored my CPU temp whilst in a server alone on Fortnite and it is consistent at 100C (I guess this is way too hot @Cinnabar Sonar?)

 

100C is the TJMax (TJunction Max) that is set on many Intel CPUs. (typically 90C-100C)

When a CPU reaches that temperature, it heavily throttles itself to protect itself from degradation, or just outright destroying itself from it's own heat.

So, instead of running at 3.5 GHz, it will slow down to 0.5 GHz, or even lower.

 

I have full confidence that is what's causing the sporadic frame rate fluctuations.

As the CPU is slowing itself down, thus not being able to keep up with the GPU until it cools down, then it speeds up, and the frame rate is restored.

Then the CPU heats up again, and the cycle continues.

 

There may be a few reasons for the CPU reaching insanely high temps, one, and i'm sorry if this seems like a degrading question, but did you apply thermal paste to the CPU?

If not, that's the answer right there.

 

Two, it could be a bad mount, so remounting the cooler might help.

 

Three, the fan may be going bad, usually they still perform just fine, and get very loud, so I find this one unlikely.

 

Four, the cooler just can't perform in your specific environment, perhaps you live somewhere very warm.

 

If you have thermal paste, and the mount is good, I would recommend investing in an aftermarket cooler.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-RR-212E-20PK-R2-Direct-Contact/dp/B005O65JXI

Here is a rather cheap aftermarket CPU cooler that's rather popular, it's a solid performer, and is defiantly going to have a quieter fan then your stock Intel cooler.

Also.

https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-MX-4-Compound-Performance-Interface/dp/B0045JCFLY/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_147_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=34SJZB389KJE61BT80ZS

I'm pretty sure that the cooler already comes with some thermal paste, but this stuff performs rather well.

[eth_jones]

Thanks so much @Cinnabar Sonar. OKay so in answer to your questions: 

1) Yes, I put a "pea sized amount" of thermal paste onto the processor before putting the cooler in (btw, don't worry about your questions sounding degrading haha, I am honestly a complete noob when it comes to PC building lol)

2) I have checked the mount of the cooler and it is all clipped into place nicely

3) The fan is very loud, so maybe on it's way out?

4) I live in the middle of England where the temp is rarely warm, but I have actually tried it in my air conditioned office at work this morning and this is where it was registering 100C.

 

I will take a look at those link in a moment, thanks again. Just a bit of background about me - I am an IT technician for a company of about 200 employees. I look after the network, domain etc etc. I'm 21 years old and realised that I didn't know anywhere near enough about hardware as I should do, so that's why I decided to build myself a PC. I hope that these experiences will help me to be better prepared to face hardware issues at work, so you guys really don't know just how much your knowledge is helping me here! Thanks again

[Skanky Sylveon]

@eth_jones Alright, it seems like either the fan is on it's way out, or the cooler is just shit.

 

The stock Intel fans are already loud, so, it's a bit hard to know whether it's sounding "alright" or not.

 

One more thing I forgot to mention. 

Make sure the temps don't read 100C even in idle, if that's the case, the motherboard may have a bad sensor. 

 

What you should be looking for, is the temps being lower than 100C, then it ramping up to that temperature when doing anything intensive. 

 

Although, if it was a bad sensor, I would imagine consistent terrible frame rate, and an overall, very slow PC.

 

@dieegoperi Mentioned the Cooler Master 212, which is what I linked to you.

That should do just fine if you aren't overclocking, but you may want something a bit more beefy if you plan on getting a motherboard that can overclock in the future. 

@SHROUD mentioned Cryorig, which makes good coolers, also check out Noctua and be quiet! (be quiet! is a company that makes silence optimized coolers, fans, and cases just wanted to make that clear, since I have had some pepole think that I was telling them to be quiet).

49 minutes ago, eth_jones said:

Just a bit of background about me - I am an IT technician for a company of about 200 employees. I look after the network, domain etc etc. I'm 21 years old and realised that I didn't know anywhere near enough about hardware as I should do, so that's why I decided to build myself a PC. I hope that these experiences will help me to be better prepared to face hardware issues at work, so you guys really don't know just how much your knowledge is helping me here! Thanks again

Glad to see that you are trying to learn, since that's what is going to put you ahead of everyone else.

 

Don't feel ashamed about making dumb mistakes, we have all been there at some point. 

 

Although, I wouldn't call any of this dumb, or even newbe mistakes to be honest.

 

Also, go ahead and check task manager, and either run @TopHatProductions115's benchmarks, or your game, on the performance tab, look and see if you see any CPU speed drops, you might not if only a few cores throttle, but the throttling cores should show a dip in the logical processors graph. 

[Skanky Sylveon]

Also, @eth_jones.

Can you take some pics of your case?  I would like to see how well it's airflow potentially is.

 

Bad airflow = hot components. 

Since it's a recycled office case, I have a feeling that it may not be that good in the airflow department.

[eth_jones]

@Cinnabar Sonar Thanks man, new cooler definitely seems the way to go! 

13 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Make sure the temps don't read 100C even in idle

Nope, they're looking about 40-50C when idle, from what I have read I think that is okay? Not sure about overclocking yet, I think if I can just see what this setup is capable of first so it gives me something to add to and work off of for future builds etc. And haha, I think I have heard of be quiet!  Will probably stick with the one you linked to me for the time being as it's really affordable.

 

Yeah I love to learn and try new things! As you can probably see by my specs though haha this was just a test machine so to speak, although I'm enjoying this so much I will probably fully switch to PC gaming and build something better, in time.

 

I am halfway through running @TopHatProductions115 benchmark tests, so will post the results as soon as they're done. I'll stick a photo below of my setup too. It's pretty compact so may not help with airflow now I come to think of it, but it does have space for another fan on the back also.

[Skanky Sylveon]

42 minutes ago, eth_jones said:

but it does have space for another fan on the back also.

A bit hard to tell, but the case has a place for an intake and an exhaust fan?

 

If so, and there isn't at least one intake, and exhaust fan installed, go get some and install them.

 

I'm not sure what size fans you would need though. 

My guess is that the case uses either 120mm, 92mm, or 80mm.

If you don't know, it should be easy enough for you to measure the fan mounts.

 

Also, be sure to check your case clearance, as some CPU coolers might be too tall.

 

If that's the case, you may need to get a slightly smaller cooler, or invest in a bigger case.

Quote

Nope, they're looking about 40-50C when idle, from what I have read I think that is okay? 

That's around normal idle temps.

They may drop to high 30s/low 40s after the cooler upgrade though. 

[TopHatProductions115]

BTW, usual idle temps are going to be in the 40s to 50s if you're sporting a desktop with a decent cooler. Laptops can idle a bit higher, at around 50 (centigrade for measurement). If your temps ever get above 90C for a sustained period of time, or the test/game straight-up freeses, you may want to consider a better/new cooler. Most Intel CPUs come with thermal monitoring features, so you should be able to see what's up pretty quickly during any given test.

[eth_jones]

@TopHatProductions115 Seems like my idle temp is okay then, but yeah a new cooler is needed for when gaming. This actually makes perfect sense now as over the last week fortnite has been freezing, going black, shrinking into a smaller window, before going back full screen and resuming. This takes about 5 seconds in all but I bet is because of the heat issues.

 

I've ran your suggested tests now, thanks a lot for recommending them! Here are the results:

 

CPU Benchmarks: Cpu Average during CPU part of tests - 40%. Highest spike - 70%. GPU whilst playing video tests: 100% for the duration of each video. 

 

Unigine Valley: Only did this one twice but the scores were 2566 on high, and 2500 on Ultra. CPU was steady on 30% but GPU was almost always on 100%, lowest it went was 57% for a few seconds.

 

Superposition: Gpu always on 100% CPU steady on 35% and a score of 4466 on medium.

 

@Cinnabar Sonar I will get everything measured up in a min and see what I need. There is only space for 1 fan on the case, thats just behind the CPU (the black panel on the photo)

 

 

[TopHatProductions115]

@eth_jones If your GPU is @100%, and your CPU isn't, there may be a GPU bottleneck (preliminary analysis).
Try the following:

• Lock CPU maximum to 65% in Windows Control Panel
• Run the tests again, and check to see if GPU reaches 100%

If not, try a better CPU cooler first, to see if CPU thermal-throttling is causing an issue. If that doesn't fix it, try adding a GTX 1060 6GB to the mix. You may need a larger case as well (better airflow, more fans - get an intake fan if you don't already have one).