Replacing Astro's, $1000 USD budget

[Araphen]

I've been using astro A40 with included amp for a while, then I "upgraded" to the Astro A40TR with included amp and I feel like the sound quality actually went down.  

The original A40's would have thumpy bass that I could feel but the A40TR's just seem way weaker.  
I'm planning on returning it if I can and I want to replace it with something way better but I don't really have much of an idea of what that might be.  

I play a lot of games and also listen to a lot of music (mainly super head thumping techno) so I'd like for it to be great for both as well as light weight and comfortable enough to wear for as long as eight hours or more. 

I have a very powerful computer if that has anything to do with it and I wouldn't mind adding a sound card.

I guess what I'm hoping for is for someone to say "holy crap astros suck.  Get ______ and ______ instead and you'll be super happy"

[mikedrewsmy]

SteelSeries Arctis Pro + GameDAC please.

 

And no. Astro doesn't suck.

[bleedblue]

5 minutes ago, mikedrewsmy said:

SteelSeries Arctis Pro + GameDAC please.

 

And no. Astro doesn't suck.

Steelseries Arctis Pro isn't worth the money. But yeah, Astro doesn't suck.

 

Sennheiser HD 599 + Modmic
 

Edit: Nvm, saw the $1000 USD. In that case, Sennheiser HD 700 + Antlion ModMic 5.

 

[mikedrewsmy]

1 minute ago, bleedblue said:

Steelseries Arctis Pro isn't worth the money. But yeah, Astro doesn't suck.

 

Sennheiser HD 599 + Modmic
 

RGB for life.

[Araphen]

11 minutes ago, bleedblue said:

Steelseries Arctis Pro isn't worth the money. But yeah, Astro doesn't suck.

 

Sennheiser HD 599 + Modmic
 

Edit: Nvm, saw the $1000 USD. In that case, Sennheiser HD 700 + Antlion ModMic 5.

 

So I'm looking at the HD700 and I'm wondering if I would need an amp or anything else to go with it.  

And I've already got a modmic and I love it.  

[Tz000]

53 minutes ago, Araphen said:

I've been using astro A40 with included amp for a while, then I "upgraded" to the Astro A40TR with included amp and I feel like the sound quality actually went down.  

The original A40's would have thumpy bass that I could feel but the A40TR's just seem way weaker.  
I'm planning on returning it if I can and I want to replace it with something way better but I don't really have much of an idea of what that might be.  

I play a lot of games and also listen to a lot of music (mainly super head thumping techno) so I'd like for it to be great for both as well as light weight and comfortable enough to wear for as long as eight hours or more. 

I have a very powerful computer if that has anything to do with it and I wouldn't mind adding a sound card.

I guess what I'm hoping for is for someone to say "holy crap astros suck.  Get ______ and ______ instead and you'll be super happy"

Holy crap Astros suck... haha but seriously they do in comparison to proper headphones.

 

With a budget as high as yours you should be staying FAR AWAY from "gaming" headsets or brands.  There is so much more potential for an amazing audio experience with proper headphones and a detachable microphone..  You should also be including a stand alone DAC + Headphone AMP which will bring your good headphones to life. 

 

There are so many options out there but it seems like you enjoy bass heavy music, immersive gameplay and comfort.  I am going to assume you want a closed back set of cans so you are not bothered by outside noise also most Closed back headphones will provide a better bass response.  I will note that open back headphones will give you much better positional audio which will make it slightly easier to hear footsteps etc.  I have used both types before and even when playing competitive CS:GO I have had no issues with the products I'm going to suggest.  Open back headphones will also bleed sound out from them so people around you will hear what your listening to and you will also be able to hear your surroundings so TV's, family etc. 

 

These are by no means how far you could go with your budget but I believe coming from a gaming headset I would highly recommend the products listed below:

 

Headphones:

 

Audio-Technica ATH-M40X w/ Brainwaves HM5 Pads

 

Link Headphones $100.00 : https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-M40x-Professional-Monitor-Headphones/dp/B00HVLUR54/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1535942267&sr=8-2&keywords=m40x

 

Link Pads $12.99: https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Memory-Angled-Cushion-Cover/dp/B07BKSW8GF/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1535942296&sr=8-3-fkmr1&keywords=Brainwaves+HM5+angled+ear+pads

 

Microphone:

 

Antlion Mod Mic

Link: $55.00 https://www.amazon.com/Antlion-Audio-ModMic-Attachable-Microphone/dp/B00R98JVVU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1535942760&sr=8-3&keywords=Antlion+Modmic

 

Massdrop Mini Mic

Link: $25.00 checkout www.massdrop.com then search for "Mini Mic" this is a cheaper alternative to the Mod mic the sound quality is comparable but the fastening system uses Velcro instead of a nice magnet.

 

Headphone DAC + AMPS:

 

FX-Audio DAC X6  (Entry Level - Great unit for the price cannot be beat at this price point can power a variety of headphones and can be used as a DAC for speakers or used on a PS4 XBOX etc..)

Link: $65.00 https://www.amazon.com/FX-Audio-Optical-Coaxial-Amplifier/dp/B072JJT7SF/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1535942848&sr=8-2&keywords=fx-audio+dac-x6

 

Schiit Audio Fulla 2 (Another entry level option, better build quality & dac than the X6 but less powerful amp)

Link: $99.00 http://www.schiit.com/products/fulla-2

 

"The Schiit Stack"

 

Schiit Magni 3 Amp (Much more powerful than the other two options can drive basically any headphone and will sound fantastic I personally am going to upgrade from my Fx-Audio DAC X6 to this in the near future)

Link: $99.00  http://www.schiit.com/products/magni-3

 

Schiit Modi 2 DAC (  A much better DAC then what is found in the X6 or fulla it stacks perfectly with the Magni 3 amp I have not listened to this myself but everyone suggests this and I will be getting one in the future ) 

Link: $99.00 http://www.schiit.com/products/modi-2

 

 

I own this setup and many other headphones ( HD6XX, M40X, NVX XPT 100's & HD558's ) if you have any questions feel free to ask ill answer what I can.

 

Good luck with your purchase please stay away from gaming headphones you will be much happy with your purchase getting something from a proper audio company.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Araphen]

Tz000, it's interesting that you would recommend a hundred dollar pair of headphones and I'm thinking that i could get something a bit better by spending more.  I'm not going for "good enough" i'm going for "hella noice" if you know what i mean.

Thanks for the info on the amps and dacs though.  It gives me a starting point since i pretty much know nothing about them.  

[GamerDude]

28 minutes ago, Araphen said:

Tz000, it's interesting that you would recommend a hundred dollar pair of headphones and I'm thinking that i could get something a bit better by spending more.  I'm not going for "good enough" i'm going for "hella noice" if you know what i mean.

Thanks for the info on the amps and dacs though.  It gives me a starting point since i pretty much know nothing about them.  

Then, I'm waiting for this myself, I'd suggest you wait for the Audeze Mobius, it's packed with all sorts of tech for gaming, movies and has BT functionality as well. It isn't a dynamic can, it's a planar magnetic can. I want if for 3D surround (for movies), HRTF (for gaming and perhaps music) and BT (for when I'm out and about). Waiting for reviews but thus far, impressions of the can seem to be positive.

[Araphen]

12 minutes ago, GamerDude said:

Then, I'm waiting for this myself, I'd suggest you wait for the Audeze Mobius, it's packed with all sorts of tech for gaming, movies and has BT functionality as well. It isn't a dynamic can, it's a planar magnetic can. I want if for 3D surround (for movies), HRTF (for gaming and perhaps music) and BT (for when I'm out and about). Waiting for reviews but thus far, impressions of the can seem to be positive.

Have you tried Sennheiser HD 700?  I'm curious how you think those two would compare.

[GamerDude]

1 hour ago, Araphen said:

Have you tried Sennheiser HD 700?  I'm curious how you think those two would compare.

I had the HD700 a while back, actually quite a while back! Here's an old pic as proof:

While I liked the fit and comfort, I found it a tad dark for my liking, although many had commented on its treble hotness due to a spike in the high frequency IIRC. Hell, I had no problem with the treble sparkle on the HD800, so the HD700 sounded dark to me.....though it had very wide soundstage (not as wide as its bigger sibling) with good imaging. I can't comment on the Audeze Mobius as I don't think it's hit the retail chain yet, but I'm gonna snag one just as soon as it's released.

[Araphen]

Picking headphones feels way harder than building a computer...  i'm thinking i'm gonna go to best buy and see if they have ones i can try to get a better feel for whats out there.  

[GamerDude]

1 hour ago, Araphen said:

Picking headphones feels way harder than building a computer...  i'm thinking i'm gonna go to best buy and see if they have ones i can try to get a better feel for whats out there.  

Yeah, with computer hardware, you have a good idea how a CPU and a GPU would perform based on empirical evidence, like hard performance figures based on reviews and such. With audio gear, it's all so subjective, what may sound great with A may not sound great with B. And yes, trying out various headphones to see which suits you would give the audio gurus here an idea of the kind of sound you're after.

[Tz000]

1 hour ago, Araphen said:

Picking headphones feels way harder than building a computer...  i'm thinking i'm gonna go to best buy and see if they have ones i can try to get a better feel for whats out there.  

 

4 hours ago, Araphen said:

Tz000, it's interesting that you would recommend a hundred dollar pair of headphones and I'm thinking that i could get something a bit better by spending more.  I'm not going for "good enough" i'm going for "hella noice" if you know what i mean.

Thanks for the info on the amps and dacs though.  It gives me a starting point since i pretty much know nothing about them.  

 

Picking headphones is very hard, I understand your budget is much higher but you will be very surprised with the M40x..  I have the Senn HD650/6XX as well and the M40x still impress me, but I can understand buying something great and not having to ever upgrade again..  I have attached a link to a list of headphones and there qualities.   The person who made this list "Zeos" is highly subjective so take what he says with some leniency but its a decent list of headphones to choose from and might help steer you in the right direction.

 

Best buy usually has some Sennheiser headphones on display and most of the popular brands such as bose, sony, skull candy etc,  try guitar / music stores or dedicated stereo shops to try out higher end stuff, but its always worth a try at best buy thats where I got my HD558's from.

 

Good luck! feel free to PM me with any questions id be happy to help.

 

cheers!~

 

 

 

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[Araphen]

14 hours ago, Tz000 said:

 

 

Picking headphones is very hard, I understand your budget is much higher but you will be very surprised with the M40x..  I have the Senn HD650/6XX as well and the M40x still impress me, but I can understand buying something great and not having to ever upgrade again..  I have attached a link to a list of headphones and there qualities.   The person who made this list "Zeos" is highly subjective so take what he says with some leniency but its a decent list of headphones to choose from and might help steer you in the right direction.

 

Best buy usually has some Sennheiser headphones on display and most of the popular brands such as bose, sony, skull candy etc,  try guitar / music stores or dedicated stereo shops to try out higher end stuff, but its always worth a try at best buy thats where I got my HD558's from.

 

Good luck! feel free to PM me with any questions id be happy to help.

 

cheers!~

 

 

 

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Thanks man, that list really gives me a better idea of whats out there.  

I looked around for places in my area to try headphones like music and guitar stores but they didn't have any that i could try and actually hardly sold headphones.  I guess it's just the area i live in.  So I had to go to best buy and they only had bose, sony, skull candy, and beats. 

 

I might just have to start buying stuff and hope I like it or go through the trouble of returning it if i don't.

[xtroria]

Are you looking for closed back or open back?

 

generally, bassy music sounds sounds more thumpy with closed back headphone, so I’m gonna recommend shure SRH-1540 with schiit magni+modi and modmic 5

[Araphen]

1 hour ago, xtroria said:

Are you looking for closed back or open back?

 

generally, bassy music sounds sounds more thumpy with closed back headphone, so I’m gonna recommend shure SRH-1540 with schiit magni+modi and modmic 5

I don't think I would like closed headphones.  I've had open pretty much all my life and I've tried my friend's beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO with schiit stack and it sounded so closed off and just kinda bad.  I'm not sure if those are considered bad though. 

 

But thanks for the recommendation, i'll keep that tab open until i make my decision.

[ShoshinUK]

On 9/3/2018 at 3:17 AM, Araphen said:

I've been using astro A40 with included amp for a while, then I "upgraded" to the Astro A40TR with included amp and I feel like the sound quality actually went down.  

The original A40's would have thumpy bass that I could feel but the A40TR's just seem way weaker.  
I'm planning on returning it if I can and I want to replace it with something way better but I don't really have much of an idea of what that might be.  

I play a lot of games and also listen to a lot of music (mainly super head thumping techno) so I'd like for it to be great for both as well as light weight and comfortable enough to wear for as long as eight hours or more. 

I have a very powerful computer if that has anything to do with it and I wouldn't mind adding a sound card.

I guess what I'm hoping for is for someone to say "holy crap astros suck.  Get ______ and ______ instead and you'll be super happy"

Last few months I upped my audio game and now use Schiit Stack, Fostex T50RP MK3 headphones (with a couple of comfort mods) and mod mic.

Let me know if you want exact models used - im off to work!

My sound is now amazing, i'm super happy.

[xtroria]

5 hours ago, Araphen said:

I don't think I would like closed headphones.  I've had open pretty much all my life and I've tried my friend's beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO with schiit stack and it sounded so closed off and just kinda bad.  I'm not sure if those are considered bad though. 

 

But thanks for the recommendation, i'll keep that tab open until i make my decision.

Then perhaps focal elear

[EsaT]

7 hours ago, Araphen said:

I don't think I would like closed headphones.  I've had open pretty much all my life and I've tried my friend's beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO with schiit stack and it sounded so closed off and just kinda bad.  I'm not sure if those are considered bad though. 

 

But thanks for the recommendation, i'll keep that tab open until i make my decision.

DT770 should be good for closed headphone of its price level.

But the thing is that no matter the headphones, sound will be accurately positioned inside left or right ear, or inside head, if sound signal doesn't contain necessary data for brain.

 

We hear in 3D because head and outer ears cause direction dependant changes to signal received by both ears from sound source.

That's called binaural sound.

Those interaural cues can be recorded by having mics in ears of real head or dummy head.

For some inexcusable reason it's been heavily neglected for long time despite of it being capable to creating lot more easily good immersion than speakers.

Though BBC is now looking into it:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/binaural-broadcasting

 

It only needs to be produced per ear accurately.

And literally accurately.

For best immersion it needs neutral analytical sound and any treble smoothing/rolling off "warm music enjoyment" tuning is only handicap for those cues, which are mostly upward from 1kHz.

And headphones good for that certainly don't cost much.

 

Without those binaural cues brain simply can't position sounds properly.

Pure speaker mix listened on headphones doesn't even give natural left-right immersion.

Because sound from left (speaker) reaching right ear and vice versa is missing, producing that very unnatural "sound inside one ear or in center of head" feel.

 

 

When having source sound with directional/spatial data, meaning surround sound like 5.1, mathematical algorithms (called HRTF) can be used to simulate those interaural cues.

Dolby Headphone used by that Astro gaming trinket is one such.

Despite/regardless of hyped Dolby name, for gaming its average and behind algorithms used by Creative.

 

Though all currently used algorithms share same weakness than dummy head recording:

If head shape of listener is different from average his/hers personal interaural cues are different and immersion suffers.

And obviously we humans don't come with single standardized head shape.

Creative is working on that and demoed already in CES tech with head and ear shape customizable HRTF.

They should be releasing products with that "Super X-Fi" named tech in later part of year.

[Araphen]

17 hours ago, xtroria said:

Then perhaps focal elear

I've been looking a lot at the Focal Elear and I can't decide between that one and the Senn HD700.  I think since the best I've ever heard is my Astro's, both of them would sound amazing paired with the Modi 2 and magni 3 but I just can't decide.  
So I think I'm gonna buy both and try them each for a few days in a bunch of different situations, then return the one I don't like as much.  

Before I start this though, are there any others I should consider?

 

Also is the Schiit stack a good pairing for the Focal Elears?  

[xtroria]

1 hour ago, Araphen said:

I've been looking a lot at the Focal Elear and I can't decide between that one and the Senn HD700.  I think since the best I've ever heard is my Astro's, both of them would sound amazing paired with the Modi 2 and magni 3 but I just can't decide.  
So I think I'm gonna buy both and try them each for a few days in a bunch of different situations, then return the one I don't like as much.  

Before I start this though, are there any others I should consider?

 

Also is the Schiit stack a good pairing for the Focal Elears?  

I'm not a believer that amplifier sounds different from one another (except the tube amp). If a solid state amp (the normal amps) changes the sound, to me it's a broken amplifer.

 

For the modi dac, I recommend getting the modi uber. I think the extra $50 for flexibility if you're getting a speaker or other output is worth it.

 

In terms of the headphone, HD700 was one of the headphone that was very polarizing, some people liked it, others prefer the cheaper HD650 over it. Elear is also an orthodynamic headphone so in general it will have better bass than HD700

[Araphen]

3 hours ago, xtroria said:

I'm not a believer that amplifier sounds different from one another (except the tube amp). If a solid state amp (the normal amps) changes the sound, to me it's a broken amplifer.

 

For the modi dac, I recommend getting the modi uber. I think the extra $50 for flexibility if you're getting a speaker or other output is worth it.

 

In terms of the headphone, HD700 was one of the headphone that was very polarizing, some people liked it, others prefer the cheaper HD650 over it. Elear is also an orthodynamic headphone so in general it will have better bass than HD700

I see that the Elear's are pretty heavy and I'm gonna need to try them for a few hours straight to see if that's gonna be a problem.  One of the main reasons why I'm considering the HD700's is because everyone says they're so comfy so I know that won't be a problem for those. 

I just placed the order for Modi 2 Uber and Magni 3.  I'm going to wait to make sure they get here undamaged then buy both headphones.  (fedex in my area is terrible)

[Araphen]

I got my Focal elear and Senn HD700 and I can't say that I'm overly fond of either. I realized the difference between those and my astros is that my astros have a 3D audio effect where it sounds like the sound is coming from around me which i think comes from the dolby in the mixamp

 

The Focal and Senn headphones just sound like two (very nice) speakers right next to my ears so instead of sound in the room it just sounds like the music is coming from inside my head.

I've tried Dolby atmos spatial sound format but it doesn't give me the effect I was looking for.  Does anyone have any other ideas?

 

I think this is a great example of what i'm talking about

 

 

Also I just got my magni 3 and modi 2 uber in and I hooked them up and they got pretty toasty.  I'm wondering if that's expected or if that's a problem.

[an actual squirrel]

The dolby atmos app is really meant for games or applications that can output an atmos stream. We're talking battlefield one and rise of the tomb raider iirc. With Overwatch, blizzard licensed the headphone dsp directly, so you can use it in that game without buying the app, it's an option in the audio menu.

 

What I would recommend to fix the address the imaging problems: first, just use the magni 3 connected to your motherboard, without the modi 2 uber. This is because I am going to suggest some software, and it will require a dac that can work with a 7.1 data format, which audiophile dacs usually can't do.

 

1. Install equalizer apo. Then look up the EQ settings for your headphones here: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results

2. Set windows to 7.1 audio ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq2oj1CcD4U )

3. Install hesuvi ( https://sourceforge.net/projects/hesuvi/ )

4. And I recommend keeping windows volume at 50% for headroom for equalizerapo

 

Since you have used astro before, the dh+.wav setting in hesuvi will sound very familiar. You can also atmos.wav for a 7.1 version of atmos for headphones.You also want to make sure you are using the microsoft audio driver with your audio chipset if you aren't already.  

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/matthew_van_eerde/2010/08/23/troubleshooting-how-to-install-the-microsoft-hd-audio-class-driver/

 

[kokakolia]

Man! You’re playing with fire! 

 

I really wish you could sample this headphones. Because as someone said before, the HD 700 is a love or hate affair. 

 

The go to recommendation on forums is typically Sennheiser open backs like the 558, 559, 600, 650, 6xx...And yes, they do sound good but I believe that most people would not completely fall in love with them. And the reason is bass being quieter on open backs. But you seem to prefer an open sound so ignore what I said

 

The other thing to look out for is treble. Many headphones have sharp painful treble and if that bothers you, you can rule out most headphones and go straight to the Sennheiser HD 558, HD 600 or HD 650. The Sennheiser HD 700 and HD 800 can have piercing highs. 

 

Also consider weight, many high end headphones are heavy and may cause neck pain over several hours of gaming.