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Samsung making GPU’s

ethanlevi2
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Samsung has decided to actually get into the GPU game (no pun intended)! Samsung has recently hired former nvidia developer of the nforce IGP chip.

Sources:

https://gfxspeak.com/2018/07/23/samsung-developing-gpu/

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/samsung-hires-a-former-nvidia-employee-could-be-developing-its-own-gpu/

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No, they've hired a guy who used to make GPU's.

 

It points towards them wanting to enter the GPU market, but they're not making them just yet. Could be phone GPU's for all we know.

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Or a more realistic analysis, they might want to start making their own SoC GPUs like Apple does. 

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here comes the GTS 450 EVO at only $699.99 

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10 minutes ago, RKRiley said:

No, they've hired a guy who used to make GPU's.

 

It points towards them wanting to enter the GPU market, but they're not making them just yet. Could be phone GPU's for all we know.

Samsung already makes phone GPUs as part of the exynos chips

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3 minutes ago, Swatson said:

Samsung already makes phone GPUs as part of the exynos chips

Not really. Most of their Exynos based devices still use ARM Mali GPUs. They perhaps want to have more control over the GPU implementation like they have with Exynos. 

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16 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Not really. Most of their Exynos based devices still use ARM Mali GPUs.

Yes really, that's how ARM works. Just because it's not a fully custom gpu design doesn't mean they aren't doing any work. They take the ref design, makes tweaks, and have to integrate it into their chips. And in literal terms they "make" the GPU as they fab in-house. Saying Samsung doesn't make gpus is like saying qualcomm doesn't make cpus because they licence arm designs.

 

16 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

They perhaps want to have more control over the GPU implementation like they have with Exynos. 

They already have control over gpu implementation, the idea is that they would go more or less fully custom on the architecture, akin to the adreno and probably upcoming apple soc's

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2 hours ago, ethanlevi2 said:

Samsung has decided to actually get into the GPU game (no pun intended)! Samsung has recently hired former nvidia developer of the nforce IGP chip.

Sources:

https://gfxspeak.com/2018/07/23/samsung-developing-gpu/

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/samsung-hires-a-former-nvidia-employee-could-be-developing-its-own-gpu/

I think I'm missing the pun. 

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Sounds more like they have some ideas for better gpu's in their phones/tablets.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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3 hours ago, RKRiley said:

No, they've hired a guy who used to make GPU's.

 

It points towards them wanting to enter the GPU market, but they're not making them just yet. Could be phone GPU's for all we know.

Didnt they fab the GP107 used in the Geforce1050 on their 14nm node?

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Samsung's been at it for a while. It's supposed to be ready soon as in either next year or the year after.

 

It'll be for phones and tablets initially but like Apple, there's definitely room to expand beyond that and the vertical integration gives them a lot of opportunities to use GPU IP to its fullest extent. It could have vast potential for Samsung. Or it may be a flop like Larabee or their latest custom ARM core.

 

And no, integrating Mali GPUs isn't designing GPUs so this is very much new territory.

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41 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

And no, integrating Mali GPUs isn't designing GPUs so this is very much new territory.

It was never said that integration = designing an architecture. Samsung makes GPUs but they dont design fully custom GPU architectures, yet

To make my point more clear, ARM designs GPUs, but does not make them. Words are important

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I'd say not super unexpected.
Samsung seems to be one of those companies that likes to design/manufacture as many parts as possible in their finished products, rather then source controllers, or whatever from some other company.
Also wasn't it Samsung that just made something they called LPDDR5? - Even though that specification hasn't been finalized yet, (meaning nothing is going to use it, specially if the specification turns out to be different) Something tells me that this GPU (which is likely for mobile) is gonna be one of the first/only things made to use that kinda ram.

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9 hours ago, ethanlevi2 said:

Samsung has decided to actually get into the GPU game (no pun intended)! Samsung has recently hired former nvidia developer of the nforce IGP chip.

Don't they already do their own GPU Stuff??

But that was to be expected tbh...

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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6 hours ago, Amazonsucks said:

Didnt they fab the GP107 used in the Geforce1050 on their 14nm node?

Yea the 1030, 1050 and 1050 Ti are Samsung 14nm

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If they didnt announce that they are making GPU's this is just speculation not news.

You ever tought about the fact that they might make gpu's for their phones and tablets? and need some engineers there? makes much more sense.

Anyway starting a GPU business today for desktop/server is pointless it would take you 5 years to get something to market even with proper R&D budget.

Samsung/Intel should have joined in 10-15 years ago, maybe buy companies like Matrox or Silicon Graphics and build on their IP.

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9 hours ago, Swatson said:

It was never said that integration = designing an architecture. Samsung makes GPUs but they dont design fully custom GPU architectures, yet

To make my point more clear, ARM designs GPUs, but does not make them. Words are important

Bit of a pointless statement, isn't it?

We don't say TSMC makes GPUs although technically they do. We say Apple made the iPhone despite outsourcing production. 

 

In relation to this, there is a world of difference in licensing and designing it. And if we're even to say technically Samsung makes the GPU period then it's two different companies that design SoCs (Exynos designed by Samsung Semiconductors) and produce them (Samsung Foundry). So even if you want to argue semantics it isn't so cut and dry.

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11 minutes ago, yian88 said:

If they didnt announce that they are making GPU's this is just speculation not news.

You ever tought about the fact that they might make gpu's for their phones and tablets? and need some engineers there? makes much more sense.

Anyway starting a GPU business today for desktop/server is pointless it would take you 5 years to get something to market even with proper R&D budget.

Samsung/Intel should have joined in 10-15 years ago, maybe buy companies like Matrox or Silicon Graphics and build on their IP.

Samsung has been working on GPUs for a number of years now.

GPU IP can be very versatile so it can easily become a profitable endeavor.

 

The most obvious use case is Exynos where Samsung have been seemingly dissatisfied with ARM and their Mali GPUs. However it's very possible for them to want to expand their semiconductor business to go beyond mobile.

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5 hours ago, Trixanity said:

Bit of a pointless statement, isn't it?

We don't say TSMC makes GPUs although technically they do. We say Apple made the iPhone despite outsourcing production. 

 

In relation to this, there is a world of difference in licensing and designing it. And if we're even to say technically Samsung makes the GPU period then it's two different companies that design SoCs (Exynos designed by Samsung Semiconductors) and produce them (Samsung Foundry). So even if you want to argue semantics it isn't so cut and dry.

It's pretty cut and dry, they may be 2 "different" companies but they are both owned by the Samsung conglomerate. Lots of people would say TSMC makes GPUs, they do. They just don't design them. Again, words. Apple had a custom GPU IP designed by imagination technologies except they also tweaked that, just like Samsung tweaks the ARM reference.

 

This entire point of Samsung "making" a GPU is wrong anyways. They are going to develop a new GPU IP, and then integrate that into their Exynos SoC, so they wont really be designing a discrete GPU at all. If they tried to separate it from the rest of the SoC it would have to be redesigned most likely

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20 minutes ago, Swatson said:

It's pretty cut and dry, they may be 2 "different" companies but they are both owned by the Samsung conglomerate. Lots of people would say TSMC makes GPUs, they do. They just don't design them. Again, words. Apple had a custom GPU IP designed by imagination technologies except they also tweaked that, just like Samsung tweaks the ARM reference.

 

This entire point of Samsung "making" a GPU is wrong anyways. They are going to develop a new GPU IP, and then integrate that into their Exynos SoC, so they wont really be designing a discrete GPU at all. If they tried to separate it from the rest of the SoC it would have to be redesigned most likely

A GPU is a GPU. Perhaps some have this idea in their head that it means discrete graphics (card) but while those terms have become interchangeable on the desktop, in general terms they're quite different in meaning.

 

A GPU could be integrated on die or it could be used in a discrete solution in theory. Many parts of the design work the same no matter the implementation as far as I'm concerned.

 

Anyway: Samsung Electronics orders chips from Samsung Semiconductors as if they're a separate entity. There may be preferential treatment and special contracts but they're in most aspects different companies and separate entities. Likewise Samsung Semiconductors could in theory get their chips made at TSMC if they wanted to. It would probably not make sense to do so ultimately but that's beside the point.

 

It's quite limited what Samsung can do to the Mali GPU hence they can't drastically improve it. Which is why they're making their own in the first place.

 

Ultimately we're still left with you arguing the most unnecessary point I've ever seen especially with the consideration that "they're just words". If so, why bother? The words in this case, while up to interpretation, are wrong. They imply that this isn't really news and that this is business as usual over at Samsung and that the significance is lacking because they're essentially "just making GPUs like they did before" which is wrong.

 

And this is Samsung Semiconductors that has hired GPU people by the way, not Samsung Foundry, so it's for chip design, not fabrication, which means Samsung Semiconductors don't make GPUs per your comment. Samsung Foundry does. I think it goes without saying that there's a vast difference between licensing Mali and designing 'S GPU' even for the Exynos teams.

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25 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

snip

No.

 

1. Samsung is such a large conglomerate they spin off divisions into separate companies, but they use those companies mostly for vertical integration, the scenario you mentioned isn't a thing. Even if Samsung had them fabbed at TSMC, which they wouldn't do btw, they are for the sole use of Samsung. Those "special" contracts are how you make use of your own sister company, yes. Businesses still have to follow laws and business practices but that still means that Samsung can give itself whatever deal it wants

 

2. Yes it's technically a graphics processor unit but it's going to be integrated only, mobile only, and Samsung only. That's my point about them not really designing "a GPU". They are creating circuitry to handle graphics processing but it's going to be so limited in scope it's really not fair to say "Oh man Samsung is making GPUs now" if you already don't believe they are. Additionally, you could not just pull out the GPU and slap it onto a card. Phone SoC GPU's are not at all designed to do that. At best they could integrate it into another ARM SoC

 

3. The article writers have used the wrong words, it is a major accomplishment to design a new GPU, but they have been making GPUs for years. It's not my problem if people use the wrong words. Do you get mad when someone uses the word ironically wrong, or something to that effect? This is how shit like that happens.

 

25 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

And this is Samsung Semiconductors that has hired GPU people by the way, not Samsung Foundry, so it's for chip design, not fabrication, which means Samsung Semiconductors don't make GPUs per your comment. Samsung Foundry does.

 

I NEVER, not once said Samsung semiconductors. I have only referred to Samsung as a whole because that's how you need to look at it. Imagine saying the same thing but in reference to Intel and their foundry. I also never said they were hiring people for fabrication, it's clear it's for design.

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4 hours ago, Swatson said:

No.

 

1. Samsung is such a large conglomerate they spin off divisions into separate companies, but they use those companies mostly for vertical integration, the scenario you mentioned isn't a thing. Even if Samsung had them fabbed at TSMC, which they wouldn't do btw, they are for the sole use of Samsung. Those "special" contracts are how you make use of your own sister company, yes. Businesses still have to follow laws and business practices but that still means that Samsung can give itself whatever deal it wants

 

2. Yes it's technically a graphics processor unit but it's going to be integrated only, mobile only, and Samsung only. That's my point about them not really designing "a GPU". They are creating circuitry to handle graphics processing but it's going to be so limited in scope it's really not fair to say "Oh man Samsung is making GPUs now" if you already don't believe they are. Additionally, you could not just pull out the GPU and slap it onto a card. Phone SoC GPU's are not at all designed to do that. At best they could integrate it into another ARM SoC

 

3. The article writers have used the wrong words, it is a major accomplishment to design a new GPU, but they have been making GPUs for years. It's not my problem if people use the wrong words. Do you get mad when someone uses the word ironically wrong, or something to that effect? This is how shit like that happens.

 

 

I NEVER, not once said Samsung semiconductors. I have only referred to Samsung as a whole because that's how you need to look at it. Imagine saying the same thing but in reference to Intel and their foundry. I also never said they were hiring people for fabrication, it's clear it's for design.

You're really still arguing this despite knowing being wrong? Wow.

 

I really like the second part the most: they're making a GPU but it's definitely not a GPU because it's a phone GPU which aren't GPUs for whatever reason.

 

The third part is beyond silly but I think you're aware. Or I hope you are.

 

The rest is mostly pointless. I could pick apart more of part two but it's honestly a waste of time and would just needlessly spur more futile arguing.

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1 hour ago, Trixanity said:

snip

You seem to have missed the entire argument but sure, stay smug I mean classy

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