Inconsistent booting woes, no POST, debug code 00 - MSI X99S Gaming 9 ACK + i7-5930K

Drajikore · July 26, 2018

Hello there!

Boy, do I have a fun mystery for you guys today! By fun I mean perplexing, by which I actually mean infuriating.

Over three years ago, I built my first personal rigg (though, to be fair, I had done at least two or three builds for my friends already at this point). So hurray, my turn! I over-excitedly bought a bunch of fancy new components fresh off their launch, jumped on to the DDR4 bandwagon as soon as it was available, and basically didn't consider waiting for them to sit on the market in order to read up on compatibility issues or potential troubleshooting.

So I put it all together, fired it up, AND... no POST. Power cycled, but all I was getting was debug code of 00 on the motherboard LED. Confused and worried, I tried flicking the power switch a few more times in a desperate attempt to breathe life into it and-- Hey! It worked! No idea why, but cool.

This is the state that the computer has been in for the last three years now. I will try boot it up, and more often than not it will read 00 - sometimes after cycling through some other POST codes*. So I flick the switch until it finally goes through POST and it runs generally fine. But I know that this is most certainly unhealthy for the longevity of my components, considering I've gone through two hard drives already that may or may not have failed due to the wear that this procedure causes.

*The post codes that sometimes show are I9 (or 19?) for BIOS version 7882v29, and were A2 (if I remember correctly) when it was on BIOS version 2.1. However, I am not sure if these are relevant because these are just the first codes that show during the POST sequence, whether it fails or not.

So, what have I done to try troubleshoot this?

I've reseated the RAM, GPU, power cables, and SATA ports = No change
I've swapped PSUs to see if mine was defective = No change
I updated the BIOS to iron out any compatibility issues with my hardware = No change
I bought new RAM, then tested it with just single sticks from both the old and new stock = No change (but upgraded from 8GB to 16GB of RAM, so that's a plus)
July 26: Ran a stress test on CPU and memory, CPU passed, memory got BSOD, then upon reboot memory passed
July 27: Tried to overclock RAM from 2133MHz motherboard default to 2400MHz to match RAM speeds = Could not POST at all, system couldn't run
July 27: Reseated CMOS battery = No Change

Now, that said, what HAVEN'T I done?

Have not reseated the CPU, been avoiding this step until there are no other suggestions so that I don't have to repaste it
~~Have not done any overclocking, since I'm already having issues I have zero confidence in tampering with OC until this is fixed~~
Have not contacted any customer service, since I wanted to try deduce WHICH component may be at fault so I know who I should be calling
Have not tried a different GPU, CPU, or Motherboard in the build, as I just don't have the access to alternative hardware
And much, much more! (probably)

So, that's my story. I'd appreciate any suggestions that might lead to fixing my issue, or any theories as to what exactly is going on. I'll happily provide more info upon request, as time permits.

And without further adieu, here is my full spec list:

Windows 10 64-bit
Intel Core i7-5930K @ 3.5GHz
MSI X99S Gaming 9 ACK (BIOS version: 7882v29) NOTE: As of compiling these specs, I realize that a newer version (7882v2A) is available, but updating from 2.1 to 7882v29 resulted in no change before, so I don't know if this would change anything in the grand scheme of things
MSI GTX 980 4GB
2 x 4GB Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR4 RAM @ 2400MHz 1.2V (SKU: BLS4G4D240FSA) [RAM bought at time of build]
2 x 4GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 RAM @ ~~2400MHz~~ 1.2V EDIT: BIOS only recognizes max bandwidth of 2133MHz... I got jipped? (SKU: CMK8GX4M2A2400C14) [RAM upgrade bought months later]
Seasonic SS-860XP2 Active PFC Platinum 860W
Noctua NH-U12S CPU cooler
Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB
Seagate Barracuda 3TB HDD
Some LG Blu-ray drive
A random multimedia SD card reader that I scavenged from my old PC
Cooler Master Storm Stryker full-tower case

Thanks!

Radium_Angel · July 26, 2018

19 minutes ago, Drajikore said:

Thanks

Just off hand I'd say you either have a RAM incompatibility or a bad motherboard (or, possibly, and I"ve seen this before, but it's a long shot, a short between the case and the components)

Drajikore · July 26, 2018

15 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Just off hand I'd say you either have a RAM incompatibility or a bad motherboard (or, possibly, and I"ve seen this before, but it's a long shot, a short between the case and the components)

RAM incompatibility always crossed my mind, but having tried the two different sticks, and having updated the BIOS, with no changes at all, I sort of ruled it out (doesn't mean I'm right though).

A bad Motherboard is what I'm afraid of, but having waited this long it's going to be a bit more difficult getting support for that from MSI, or finding a replacement (which I haven't had the heart to do since it was such an expensive board in the first place).

If it were a short between the case and any of the components, I can't imagine there's a lot I could do to fix that - or even identify it for that matter - is there? I just thought that if it were any kind of hardware damage, that it would consistently fail to function. But again, I may be dead wrong, PC's constantly surprise me.

Radium_Angel · July 26, 2018

2 hours ago, Drajikore said:

RAM incompatibility always crossed my mind, but having tried the two different sticks, and having updated the BIOS, with no changes at all, I sort of ruled it out (doesn't mean I'm right though).

A bad Motherboard is what I'm afraid of, but having waited this long it's going to be a bit more difficult getting support for that from MSI, or finding a replacement (which I haven't had the heart to do since it was such an expensive board in the first place).

If it were a short between the case and any of the components, I can't imagine there's a lot I could do to fix that - or even identify it for that matter - is there? I just thought that if it were any kind of hardware damage, that it would consistently fail to function. But again, I may be dead wrong, PC's constantly surprise me.

Easiest way to check for shorts, is pull the entire thing out of the case, set on something like a phonebook, with one stick of RAM, everything else unplugged (sata, etc) and see what gives.

If this were an early DDR4 mobo, it might not have been made to spec and faster RAM is causing issues. Just a thought.

Let me ask you this: Once it's actually booted up into (I assume) Windows, does it behave?

ZacoAttaco · July 26, 2018

In your BIOS, are you running an XMP profile or something similar? Especially because you're mixing RAM it could cause issues and will certainly being underclocking the faster set of sticks.

Drajikore · July 26, 2018

3 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Easiest way to check for shorts, is pull the entire thing out of the case, set on something like a phonebook, with one stick of RAM, everything else unplugged (sata, etc) and see what gives.

If this were an early DDR4 mobo, it might not have been made to spec and faster RAM is causing issues. Just a thought.

Let me ask you this: Once it's actually booted up into (I assume) Windows, does it behave?

Hm, okay, I'll have to do that the next time I get a chance. At that rate I also might as well reseat the CPU and cooler after I give that a shot and see if that has anything to do with it.

It's definitely an early DDR4 board, but I didn't think 2400MHz was all that fast, but looking at my board specs it does consider that overclocking for the board. So I suppose I'll have to track down some 2133MHz RAM to test with and see if it makes a difference.

Granted, my board has only been running my 2400MHz sticks at 2133MHz anyways, but I get that it might be having a fit with the hardware itself.

As for Windows, it behaves about as well as I expect Windows to. I do get the occasional Blue Screen though with BAD_POOL_CALLER and KERNEL_SECURITY_FAILURE if memory serves. But even those issues have cleared up after I fought through updating to the April 1803 version a week or two ago, which was a troubleshooting issue all on it's own.

One thing I've not done is a proper stress test to see if my system stays stable under load, so I will try do that and report back with the results (if they will be relevant in any form).

Drajikore · July 26, 2018

9 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

In your BIOS, are you running an XMP profile or something similar? Especially because you're mixing RAM it could cause issues and will certainly being underclocking the faster set of sticks.

Not that I am aware of, by which I mean I didn't manually do so. But I will check when I can and report back.

I'm pretty sure all four 2400MHz sticks are being underclocked to 2133MHz since I'm not running any overclocking. Would that potentially be an issue? I can try OC to 2400MHz to match the speed of the RAM, if that might help.

ZacoAttaco · July 26, 2018

17 minutes ago, Drajikore said:

Not that I am aware of, by which I mean I didn't manually do so. But I will check when I can and report back.

I'm pretty sure all four 2400MHz sticks are being underclocked to 2133MHz since I'm not running any overclocking. Would that potentially be an issue? I can try OC to 2400MHz to match the speed of the RAM, if that might help.

No, I don't think that'll be an issue but it's definitely something to try and investigate so we can rule it out. Because you're saying...

An early adopter of DDR4 with an early supported motherboard
Mixing DDR4 with different clock speeds together

We obviously need to do more investigating but you said you've been having issues on and off since you built it...

Did you build the system with only 1 set of 2x4gb so 8 or did you build it straight up with 16gb? If you upgraded...did you notice any changes when you upgraded?

Drajikore · July 26, 2018

18 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

No, I don't think that'll be an issue but it's definitely something to try and investigate so we can rule it out. Because you're saying...

An early adopter of DDR4 with an early supported motherboard

Mixing DDR4 with different clock speeds together

We obviously need to do more investigating but you said you've been having issues on and off since you built it...

Did you build the system with only 1 set of 2x4gb so 8 or did you build it straight up with 16gb? If you upgraded...did you notice any changes when you upgraded?

I built it with only 8GB, upgraded to 16GB months/year later. No change in regard to this issue.

I actually bought the second set of RAM to address some memory caching issue that Window 10 was causing, which did fix that problem, but I digress.

Also, I was under the impression that all four sticks were the same clock speed of 2400MHz, am I mistaken?

Edit: Update on your previous question, no XMP profile active, only two settings active are "DRAM Timing Mode" set to auto and "Memory Fast Boot" set to auto.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Drajikore

ZacoAttaco · July 27, 2018

4 hours ago, Drajikore said:

Edit: Update on your previous question, no XMP profile active, only two settings active are "DRAM Timing Mode" set to auto and "Memory Fast Boot" set to auto.

Based on what I'm seeing online, go ahead and set Memory Fast Boot to 'off'/'disabled'. It skips certain checks before posting, so if you're having issues in post that could be a culprit. Let me know who you go

4 hours ago, Drajikore said:

Also, I was under the impression that all four sticks were the same clock speed of 2400MHz, am I mistaken?

Also, RAM does look to be same speed, smart move, most people have different speeds which can cause more issues.

Drajikore · July 27, 2018

14 hours ago, ZacoAttaco said:

Based on what I'm seeing online, go ahead and set Memory Fast Boot to 'off'/'disabled'. It skips certain checks before posting, so if you're having issues in post that could be a culprit. Let me know who you go

Also, RAM does look to be same speed, smart move, most people have different speeds which can cause more issues.

Quick update:
Tried setting "Memory Fast Boot" to disabled, no solution. If anything, it actually aggravated the issue and made it occur more frequently. I will try make a video of the booting process and embed it to the OP to give a clearer indication of what exactly is happening.

I also used the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility to run a benchmark and stress test on my system. The results?
15 minute stress test on CPU went swimmingly, hitting a max temp of 60C and average of 53C as it's factory settings.

Decided to try a memory stress test after that. Set it to 5 minutes, hit go, and got an immediate blue screen, though the error was for POINTER_ERROR or something along those lines, I wasn't too observant >.<
Upon reboot, tried again so I could get the error name accurately, but instead it just worked perfectly and passed a 10 minute stress test. So bleh.

On the topic of RAM speed, I did notice something odd. In the MSI Command Center I found detailed info on my RAM, which indicated that half of the sticks were clocked at 2133MHz... and that two were clocked at 2400MHz? Despite a lack of overclocking settings, or indication that they should be clocked that high? I dunno, I'm trying to get you some more detailed info, but Command Center is being uncooperative right now and my lunch hour is running out, so I will provide that info in an edit later.

So, what am I going to try next?!
I'm going to pull the CMOS battery for starters and reseat it. I'm also going to overclock my ram to its manufactured speeds and see if that makes it more reliable.
I'm also going to take a deeper read into my motherboard manual and see if I can find anything that might address the problem. I already see that it has a "Slow Mode Booting Switch" that is not enabled. However, it looks like its specifically designed to address LN2 cooling solutions, so I may want to leave that one alone.
Lastly, once I find the time I will pull the board from the case and boot it at bare minimum: one ram stick, CPU and power. Will leave GPU out since I just want it to POST and the LED indicator will comunicate that info to me. After that, I will try reseat the CPU and apply new thermal paste.

Drajikore · July 28, 2018

So, I've got some new developments that just make things even more complicated... I'll try keep it short this time.

I tried to overclock my RAM, just to bring it all up to their 2400MHz speeds. Well, the system wouldn't POST at all now, so I took the opportunity to reseat the CMOS battery and reset my settings.
Since MSI Command Center didn't want to work, I went straight into the BIOS to see the details on my ram, and was surprised to find that my Corsair RAM... is only 2133MHz. Which sucks for two reasons:
1) The packaging for this stick, and even the product number on the stick itself, falsely claims that it is 2400MHz, which means I somehow got stuck with 2133MHz RAM instead, which limits my potential for overclocking in the future if I keep using this RAM
2) This ISN'T the RAM I bought for my initial build, which means that I've been having this booting issue with the Crucial RAM, long before the Corsair RAM ever came into the picture. So this doesn't even help us get any closer to the solution, I just have shitty luck so far.

Here's some pictures to show you exactly what I'm talking about: