Help(?) With Ryzen & Ram // Asus X470, RZN 2700X, Ballistix Tactical Tracer 3000

[MacallieA1]

Hello members,

 

Sorry for annnoother ram stability topic. The topic is so vast I decided to create a topic.

 

 

I have been reading for weeks now about ram stability, and would appreciate any specific help:

- I specifically purchased 3000MHZ ram (Ballistix Tactical Tracer 16X2) but can't seem to get a stable system above 2400MHZ on "auto".

- System stability = 1 hour AIDA64 stress test (is this sufficient?)

 

Should I even care?

I certainly would like to take advantage of any benefits (for a content creation workstation) a higher RAM frequency, but the more I read forums, the more it seems it doesn't really matter.

 

Are there any suggestions you all might have?

 

Edited up to date notes:

 

Bios is up to date

I ran several configurations but found that DOCP or Auto tune to anything above 2400MHZ crashes system in AIDA64

*No, my ram is not on the QVL

Edited July 12, 2018 by MacallieA1
Accuracy

[MacallieA1]

26 minutes ago, DsfssdfsMain said:

Did you enable XMP? or Try Updating the BIOS?

@DsfssdfsMain Not sure if i see it listed on my ASUS STRIX X470 Gaming F BIOS.

 

I am researching it and will have to take some time to see if I can find what you are asking for.

[RobFRaschke]

Asus calls XMP - D.O.C.P.

 

From the Guru3d review of your motherboard it's here:

[MacallieA1]

1 hour ago, RobFRaschke said:

Asus calls XMP - D.O.C.P.

 

From the Guru3d review of your motherboard it's here:

@RobFRaschke @DsfssdfsMain

I did try DOCP on frequencies between 2666 an 3000 and all tripped the system.

 

Also tried boosting voltage in other configurations.

[RobFRaschke]

1 minute ago, MacallieA1 said:

@RobFRaschke @DsfssdfsMain

I did try DOCP on frequencies between 2666 an 3000 and all tripped the system.

 

Also tried boosting voltage in other configurations.

Try backing off the latencies. Even slower than rated since it's not on the QVL. If you can figure out what the chips on it are on it, you can compare latencies and voltages to other sticks with those chips. The chips are the real key, and why the QVLs exist, because cross referencing dram chip, densities and singe/double side and single/dual channel are a nightmare to do manually. You may have to wait for a bios update that help with ram support. I would ABSOLUTELY let Asus know about your experience and maybe they can get a set of that ram in to add to their testing for future bios updates, especially on such a new platform.

 

Sorry for your bad luck on these sticks, but it's good info to have out there for people shopping.

[-rascal-]

29 minutes ago, MacallieA1 said:

@RobFRaschke @DsfssdfsMain

I did try DOCP on frequencies between 2666 an 3000 and all tripped the system.

 

Also tried boosting voltage in other configurations.

 

What?

 

Once you select [D.O.C.P.] setting for 'Ai Overclock Tuner' another setting should come up below it -- if I'm not mistaken, it should be 'D.O.C.P.'

It reads the XMP profiles that are written/stored in your memory modules.

The 'D.O.C.P.' that enabled should then have options to choose from, like [Profile 1 : DDR4-3000-16-18-18-1.35V] or something like that.

 

Using my ASUS ROG Crosshair V Formula as example:

 

 

 

 

Intel boards are nearly identical, but they call it as actually 'XMP' instead of 'D.O.C.P.' or 'A-XMP' etc.

(By the way, D.O.C.P. = DRAM OverClock Profile)

From my ASUS ROG Maximus VII Hero, and ASUS X99 Deluxe II

 

 

[MacallieA1]

10 hours ago, RobFRaschke said:

Try backing off the latencies. Even slower than rated since it's not on the QVL. If you can figure out what the chips on it are on it, you can compare latencies and voltages to other sticks with those chips. The chips are the real key, and why the QVLs exist, because cross referencing dram chip, densities and singe/double side and single/dual channel are a nightmare to do manually. You may have to wait for a bios update that help with ram support. I would ABSOLUTELY let Asus know about your experience and maybe they can get a set of that ram in to add to their testing for future bios updates, especially on such a new platform.

 

Sorry for your bad luck on these sticks, but it's good info to have out there for people shopping.

@RobFRaschke Understood, I will click around and hit youback.

 

Yeah i bought the sticks based on two data points:

- Seeing it used for a build on a youtube

- Seeing the manufacturers specifications indicating the sticks were optimized for Ryzen 2

 

I might buy another ram set and see what happens

[MacallieA1]

10 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

What?

 

Once you select [D.O.C.P.] setting for 'Ai Overclock Tuner' another setting should come up below it -- if I'm not mistaken, it should be 'D.O.C.P.'

It reads the XMP profiles that are written/stored in your memory modules.

The 'D.O.C.P.' that enabled should then have options to choose from, like [Profile 1 : DDR4-3000-16-18-18-1.35V] or something like that.

 

Using my ASUS ROG Crosshair V Formula as example:

 

 

 

 

Intel boards are nearly identical, but they call it as actually 'XMP' instead of 'D.O.C.P.' or 'A-XMP' etc.

(By the way, D.O.C.P. = DRAM OverClock Profile)

From my ASUS ROG Maximus VII Hero, and ASUS X99 Deluxe II

 

 

@-rascal- Thanks, I will click around and hit you back.

[nick name]

Those sticks do look super sexy so hopefully you can get this working.

 

If you're considering buying a different kit have you considered 4x8GB? Dual rank kits are gonna work against you on speed.

[MacallieA1]

10 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

What?

 

Once you select [D.O.C.P.] setting for 'Ai Overclock Tuner' another setting should come up below it -- if I'm not mistaken, it should be 'D.O.C.P.'

It reads the XMP profiles that are written/stored in your memory modules.

The 'D.O.C.P.' that enabled should then have options to choose from, like [Profile 1 : DDR4-3000-16-18-18-1.35V] or something like that.

 

Using my ASUS ROG Crosshair V Formula as example:

 

 

 

 

Intel boards are nearly identical, but they call it as actually 'XMP' instead of 'D.O.C.P.' or 'A-XMP' etc.

(By the way, D.O.C.P. = DRAM OverClock Profile)

From my ASUS ROG Maximus VII Hero, and ASUS X99 Deluxe II

 

 

@-rascal- So the AI Tweaker Menu only gave me one drop down option for the overclock tuner, and it was 3000MHZ at a certain timing, 5V

 

I loaded that profile and ended up in a boot crash loop with windows.

The system did post, and windows tried multiple times but could not get to the login screen.

 

I readjusted my dram tuner to auto, and it defaulted to 2400MHZ, and is running AIDA64 as i write this.

 

I will look at what @RobFRaschke suggested.

 

Thanks, I might tag you again for input.

[MacallieA1]

4 minutes ago, nick name said:

Those sticks do look super sexy so hopefully you can get this working.

 

If you're considering buying a different kit have you considered 4x8GB? Dual rank kits are gonna work against you on speed.

@nick name Thy sure do look sexy in pictres, bt I mst admit I wish they were brighter (Corsair has the best looking sticks IMO)

 

(strange my YO_ key jst stopped...)

 

I thoght dal sticks were better? I intentionlly boght 2X16 bsed on wht i hd herd

 

omg this keybord!

[-rascal-]

4 hours ago, MacallieA1 said:

@-rascal- So the AI Tweaker Menu only gave me one drop down option for the overclock tuner, and it was 3000MHZ at a certain timing, 5V

 

I loaded that profile and ended up in a boot crash loop with windows.

The system did post, and windows tried multiple times but could not get to the login screen.

 

I readjusted my dram tuner to auto, and it defaulted to 2400MHZ, and is running AIDA64 as i write this.

 

I will look at what @RobFRaschke suggested.

 

Thanks, I might tag you again for input.

 

What are the timings when you select from the drop-down menu.

You can also check by looking at the sticker/label ON the DRAM heatsinks.

 

OH BEFORE ALL THIS, make sure you have the latest motherboard BIOS.

Usually the board manufacturer will have DRAM, CPU, and stability tweaks/fixes with each BIOS release.

Ryzen got a few critical DRAM updates since it's initial release -- and will probably continue to evolve, so check for BIOS updates on a timely basis.

 

The "training" process DRAM on motherboards do exist now, so you might need to let it do the boot-crash-loop a few times.

(e.g. the primary memory timings are read from the XMP profile, but the secondary timings, the motherboard learns/teaches itself by trial-and-error)

"Tech Jesus" over at Gamer's Nexus has mentioned this in a few of their videos...and talks about it in their recent DRAM article:

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3333-memory-timings-defined-cas-latency-trcd-trp-tras

Quote

What Is Memory Training & How to Train Memory?
 

So, when it comes down to it, RAM doesn’t set its own frequency and timings--the BIOS does, with SPD/XMP as a starting point. On Intel boards, this element of the BIOS is called the MRC. This is one area where board manufacturers can secure an advantage in performance, because the sheer variety of RAM and the differences between Samsung, Micron, and Hynix chips make tertiary timings hideously complex to adjust. Memory and board manufacturers can work together to bake-in optimal timings for popular kits, but for the most part these are determined (if left on auto) during POST, where they should remain unchanged unless there are boot failures.

 

Memory training can appear as a black art to casual overclockers, where RAM can be magically “broken in” by repeatedly forcing boot failures until an unstable OC becomes stable enough for benchmarks. What’s actually happening is that the IMC will try a variety of settings in an attempt to stabilize the system (not all of them timings). On the user end, it can feel like trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle by shaking the box, but it works. This is an important point even for non-overclockers: if memory isn’t stable with XMP, allow the system to reboot a few times before giving up.

 

If memory training does not work (e.g. the XMP timings + XMP 3000 MHz is too aggressive for your unique CPU/motherboard combo, then you'll need to do some O.G. manual tweaking and trial-and-error.

• XMP timings + DDR4-2800 MHz
• XMP timings + DDR4-2666 MHz
• Slightly loosen timings from XMP + DDR4-3000 MHz
• etc

 

Memory training has been a thing for a number of years now, at least I caught wind of small groups of people talking about it on the ASUS ROG forum, etc..but didn't really get more exposure until recent with Zen and later Intel CPUs. 

ASUS even now has the 'ReTry' button on higher end AMD and Intel ROG motherboards.

Heck, I saw those DRAM settings in the BIOS for all the ROG boards I've owned throughout the years, but avoided that shiiiiet like a MF.