streaming ISO Cheap Xeon Streaming Rig

[Yoshmaista]

So the title kind of says it all.  I figured this would be the perfect place to post this as Linus is a huge proponent of the old Xeon processors for gaming.  I've been thinking and, why use a processor that was meant for compute for gaming, when you can just build a really cheap streaming PC (ostensibly) that could stream at, hopefully, Slow settings on OBS.  I really just want a Twitch streaming setup that won't make me dig too deeply into my pockets.

I currently have an X99 motherboard which I was thinking of buying a xeon for, but I thought it might be better to keep my 5820k for gaming and just pipe the video to a 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd gen Xeon in a cheap motherboard that would let me throw a bunch of cores at the problem for a couple hundred bucks.  I have an i5 2400 Optiplex but I figured that wouldn't be quite enough power to throw at the problem, however that means I have some old DDR3 I can throw in the box (12gb roughly--I figured I can always boost that if I need more for any reason).  So I'm basically just looking for a cheap motherboard and CPU (have an extra power supply and way too many monitors) so I can get the streaming box up and running.

Overclockability is a plus, but at the end of the day raw compute is what matters here so a few extra cores trumps overclockability I would think (I could definitely be wrong--please feel free to correct me if so).

Finally--the reason I didn't just google this is because...well actually I did.  I tried.  This is one of those subjects that would take me a LONG LONG time to learn esoteric model numbers, what they mean, how the different model numbers affects what I'm trying to do here, and which ones are best bang/buck after researching pricing on every single processor one by one.  I figured asking in a learned community such as this one might yield better results than spending hours doing research on something I already don't know enough about.

Thanks guys, and really looking forward to learning whether this is a viable idea or not!

EDIT:  Yes, I have tried streaming with this machine.  Refer to this post in order to see a full explanation about what exactly happened/is happening/why I'm looking for another solution.  My target speed is Fast or Medium, not Slow necessarily, as that provides really great quality without being unrealistic.

[wojtepanik]

get x58 and x5650 xeon or something similar

[Crunchy Dragon]

Just a thought, assuming you've got the hardware, it should be possible to game and stream on a 5820K with little to no issue. Keep in mind this is a 6 core/12 thread CPU we're talking about here.

 

If nothing works, I would hit up the used market and grab a Haswell or Broadwell EP Xeon. They can usually be found at fairly low prices since datacenters and whatnot tend to change hardware in bulk.

[ZeouLs]

Intel X5660?

[NelizMastr]

Xeons beyond the X56xx series aren't really overclockable, certainly not the Xeon E3 chips (and he E5s don't support non-ECC memory). I reckon you'd probably be best off by going with like a B75 board with a Xeon E3-1230 (or 1230v2) and add said 12GB of DDR3. A 4c/8t CPU should handle it no problem. The boards aren't overpriced like with X58 and the CPU prices aren't half bad either.

 

You'd be looking at roughly $70-80 for the CPU and $50-60 for a B75 board. I wouldn't go H61, most boards with that chipset are trash.

[Spotty]

4 minutes ago, Yoshmaista said:

I have an i5 2400 Optiplex but I figured that wouldn't be quite enough power to throw at the problem

Have you tried using this machine for streaming yet? Since you already have the machine and if you're not using it for anything else, it might be worthwhile trying it just to see how it performs before spending a few hundred dollars on another machine to do the task. If you try it and you find it doesn't meet your needs, you haven't lost anything.

What resolution, framerate, and bitrate are you streaming at? 1080p60?
Why are you aiming for x264 Slow? IMO that is overkill for most twitch streams.
 

Quote

• 5820k @ 4.4Ghz
• MSI X99a Tomahawke
• 16gb of G.Skill Ripjaws DDR4 3000 15-15-15-35
• Gigabyte Aorus 1070ti (122mhz overclock on core, 480mhz overclock on memory)
• Corsair H100i v2
• Corsair 750w Modular PSU (Bronze rated)
• ASUS VG248QE 144hz 1080p 1ms Montior
• Klipsch Promedia 2.1 (pre-bluetooth version)
• Logitech G703 Wireless Mouse
• Logitech G810 Mechanical KeyboardLogitech G430 USB 7.1 Headset (don't use 7.1 though it's bad af)

What sort of performance are you getting currently streaming from that machine? Really that should be good enough for most uses. As @Crunchy Dragon mentioned a 6c/12t CPU [at 4.4ghz] should be capable of gaming and streaming with decent performance/quality.

[AskTJ]

Look at old Dell servers. They often have around 24GB ram, an X5650 or sometimes 2, and a server chassis that you can resell. They sell around $250 or less if you can find them on sale.

[Yoshmaista]

For those of you asking--yes, I have tried streaming on it.  I can drop to Faster at 48/50FPS and after that weird things start happening.  It might be something related to my memory/memory overclock (I bought x199 memory instead of x99 memory on accident, so the XMP for 3000mhz is...wonky to say the least.  I have had to try my own timings and clock for various reasons.), but regardless I can't drop below Faster x264 settings without really hard bottlenecking in game, or stuttering and dropped frames.  I'm getting a PSU to see if some other problems (random restarts when my computer gets going/is under extreme power load--it's not temps I've tested every temp, nothing goes above 70c max, and the 12v rail on the PSU I'm using is a touch weak, it idles at 11.84v and only goes down from there under load a couple hundred millivolts).

EDIT: My x264 streaming settings--

Faster speed (would ideally like to hit Medium or Fast)
Profile: Main
Animation preset
6000kbps
50fps (would like to hit 60 if possible)
I've tried 1080p, 960p, 864p (it works okay when I scale down to 720p but that's too much quality loss from 1440p IMO), I kind of get things working at 864p--not dropping frames or getting stuttering at least.

Plus, I like high refresh rate gaming (have a 1080p and 1440p 144hz monitor for gaming) and I want to be able to hit 120fps minimum while streaming which is really hard to do with new triple A titles while streaming.

The oddest part is, I'm getting ~120fps in Overwatch while streaming on Faster (120 average, 100 minimum) streaming in Faster @ 48fps.  Then I drop it to Fast and I drop 50% of my frames, and I'm getting frames dipping into the 30s in Overwatch.  I'm open to any ideas if you all have any, but I've asked on reddit, in a couple groups I'm part of, and I've done tons of googling and testing and tweaking and can't get anything better to work on this motherboard/processor/ram combo at the moment.  I'm not opposed to dropping 200 dollars on a cheap xeon stream server to fix the problem, but if I can find a fix for free that allows me to hit even Medium x264 settings...hey.  More power.

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

8 hours ago, Spotty said:

words

Where did you get this information, out of curiosity; reddit?  It's a bit outdated.  Upgraded to a CFG70 1080p/MG279Q 1440p setup.  Just was surprised you found this bit.

[NelizMastr]

6 minutes ago, AskTJ said:

Look at old Dell servers. They often have around 24GB ram, an X5650 or sometimes 2, and a server chassis that you can resell. They sell around $250 or less if you can find them on sale.

Servers are proprietary so the boards are useless without the original case, though.

[Electronics Wizardy]

6 minutes ago, Yoshmaista said:

For those of you asking--yes, I have tried streaming on it. 

What cpu usage are you seeing?

 

Have you tried gpu endcoding with nvenc?

 

One other option is to get a used xeon for your current board if you just want more cores, something like a e5 2680 v3 or v4 should work in your board. 

[Yoshmaista]

1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

What cpu usage are you seeing?

 

Have you tried gpu endcoding with nvenc?

 

One other option is to get a used xeon for your current board if you just want more cores, something like a e5 2680 v3 or v4 should work in your board. 

CPU usage never goes above 30% unless I drop it to medium (hits 35-40%, still dropping frames).

I've tried NVENC--it's decent.  Passable.  Just doesn't have the quality of x264 once you go below VeryFast.

If I can find a Xeon for sub-200 that'll give me 8 cores 16 threads and will hit at least 4.0ghz I'd be happy to do that--but single core IPC is really important for most games still, I doubt any x99 Xeons are sub-200 at 8c/16t with overclockability, and I'm thinking for 200 I can just build another PC for pretty cheap that'll do the job just as well as, if not better than, spending money on another CPU.  Although 5820ks still go for 300 easy so it's not impossible if there's a decent option lying out there.

[Spotty]

2 minutes ago, Yoshmaista said:

Where did you get this information, out of curiosity; reddit?  It's a bit outdated.  Upgraded to a CFG70 1080p/MG279Q 1440p setup.  Just was surprised you found this bit.

It's what is on your Twitch channel bio. Just checking out your channel bro

 

11 minutes ago, Yoshmaista said:

I'm getting a PSU to see if some other problems (random restarts when my computer gets going/is under extreme power load--it's not temps I've tested every temp, nothing goes above 70c max, and the 12v rail on the PSU I'm using is a touch weak, it idles at 11.84v and only goes down from there under load a couple hundred millivolts).

What model PSU do you currently have? Most of the current Corsair 750W units are fairly decent, with maybe the exception of some older ones like the green label CX750M which is pretty average.
Check out the PSU and Case forum to ask for some help picking out a new PSU though if you do decide to change.

[Yoshmaista]

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

It's what is on your Twitch channel bio. Just checking out your channel bro

 

What model PSU do you currently have? Most of the current Corsair 750W units are fairly decent, with maybe the exception of some older ones like the green label CX750M which is pretty average.
Check out the PSU and Case forum to ask for some help picking out a new PSU though if you do decide to change.

1.  Thanks for checking out my channel!
2.  It was sold to me with the 5820k, the Motherboard, and a defective h80i v2 (had air somewhere in the loop.  I replaced it with an H100i v2).  I've been noticing it powering off during certain games (Realm Royale, DOOM and Diablo 3 are the only culprits so far), no real idea why.  I'm thinking something about those games makes the mobo/CPU/GPU pull from the 12v hard enough to stress it where it fails.  The guy who sold me the hardware is a kid who had built his first computer as an adult, and was upgrading to Ryzen--I later found out he was hard up for money (he sold the 1700x he replaced it with, sold the vega he replaced his GPU with...all kinds of stuff), and I realized some of the hardware he sold me was probably defective.  So It's not terribly surprising that some of it was defective.

I found a 600w EVGA on sale for 30 bucks on Amazon (was originally 60), not 80+ certified but I'm just using it as a cheap test to see if it's the PSU that's causing the computer to restart (not crash, restart mind you) randomly.  If so, I plan on investing 100+ into a decent PSU and also upgrade my case at the same time.  And get thermal pads and clean/reapply thermal pads/paste to the Motherboard/GFX card when I move everything over (just to be safe).

[Spotty]

2 minutes ago, Yoshmaista said:

I've been noticing it powering off during certain games

Make sure you monitor your temps, as if your computer is shutting down while playing games it could be a temperature related issue where the CPU is overheating and the computer is shutting down to protect it. You would normally notice it throttle down and become quite slow before this happens, but it's something to check if you're experiencing this issue.

You can use software like Realtemp, HWInfo64, Aida64 [trail version], or a bunch other to monitor your system temperatures. Even if it's not the cause of the shut downs, it's still good to monitor your temps, especially when you're streaming as well as the extra load on the CPU can really heat things up.

[Yoshmaista]

1 minute ago, Spotty said:

Make sure you monitor your temps, as if your computer is shutting down while playing games it could be a temperature related issue where the CPU is overheating and the computer is shutting down to protect it. You would normally notice it throttle down and become quite slow before this happens, but it's something to check if you're experiencing this issue.

You can use software like Realtemp, HWInfo64, Aida64 [trail version], or a bunch other to monitor your system temperatures. Even if it's not the cause of the shut downs, it's still good to monitor your temps, especially when you're streaming as well as the extra load on the CPU can really heat things up.

Oh I have been.  Tightened up my voltages on the CPU (still have to tighten up VCCIO and SA voltages but they should be fine), and it's happening even when the CPU doesn't go above 70c.  I've narrowed it down to the North/Southbridge or the PSU.  PSU will tell me what's going on next week.

[bimmerman]

In case it hasn't been pointed out yet-- your 5820k at 4.4 GHz is going to be more powerful and faster for streaming than an X58 era Xeon OC'd to 4.4 (which...isn't a given).

 

If what you have isn't cutting it, and twitch streaming pays your bills, I'd look up the price stack, not down. Otherwise, if you're streaming for shits and giggles, you don't need a beast of a PC as what you already have is quite potent and will obliterate anything cheaper or older.

 

It's also important to be emphatic about this: NO Xeons after the X58 generation were overclockable. Some chips, I think the E3 v2s, could be slightly OC'd, but nowhere near X58 levels of future-proofing. None of the 8c/16t chips came anywhere close to 4GHz IIRC, and can't be OC'd to that level either...because they can't be OC'd.

 

You have an X99 system-- search for the 5960X, that will have 8 cores and overclockability. Otherwise....Ryzen? Budget X58 system to spend money and have worse performance than your current system? No X99 compatible xeon will do what you're looking for.

 

(heavily OC'd X58 Xeon owner here, so I'm not talking out of my ass)

[wildgg]

2 hours ago, Yoshmaista said:

So the title kind of says it all.  I figured this would be the perfect place to post this as Linus is a huge proponent of the old Xeon processors for gaming.  I've been thinking and, why use a processor that was meant for compute for gaming, when you can just build a really cheap streaming PC (ostensibly) that could stream at, hopefully, Slow settings on OBS.  I really just want a Twitch streaming setup that won't make me dig too deeply into my pockets.
 

i can tell you right now and for the people who recommend x58 with a Xeon X56xx, Slow cpu preset is not going to happen on x58.

i have tested this my self with a x5660 at 4.6GHz and running Fast preset is very easy, going to medium you will be seeing cpu hitting 100% load causing frame drops for your viewers.

 

if you're looking for a encoding machine that can run Slow preset in OBS you will have to look for a 8 core, like ryzen for example.

Slow preset or even lower is really hard for the CPU and you will need more cores and decent clock speeds

[Mattias Edeslatt]

2 hours ago, Yoshmaista said:

 I have an i5 2400 Optiplex but I figured that wouldn't be quite enough power to throw at the problem, however that means I have some old DDR3 I can throw in the box (12gb roughly--I figured I can always boost that if I need more for any reason).  

Have you tried this machine and it can't handle the streaming?

 

Cheapest alternative is to check out some outlet that sells refurbished office-pc:s like HP and DELL. There are som good finds with a i5 or i7 and 8-16 GB RAM that are two generations old or so, like Haswell or newer. Should be plenty of power for our needs for cheap. 

[Yoshmaista]

Added a clarification to the original post.  Yes, I've tried streaming on the 5820k.  I can't go under Veryfast 1080/60 or Faster 864/48 and I really just want to hit 60fps at a resolution above 720p on Fast, or maybe even Medium preset.  Slow is a nice bonus, but isn't necessary.  After testing the various settings, Fast is where I start to see the really high quality that I'm looking for in my stream.  No I don't make my money from streaming, I just want to build another PC for streaming to take some of the stress off of this one, and am not willing to pay 500 for a decent Ryzen setup to dedicate to streaming, not to mention I was thinking a 200 dollar xeon build might be exactly what the doctor ordered.

[Crunchy Dragon]

5 hours ago, Yoshmaista said:

am not willing to pay 500 for a decent Ryzen setup to dedicate to streaming, not to mention I was thinking a 200 dollar xeon build might be exactly what the doctor ordered.

Have you considered getting a GPU for the Optiplex you mentioned, and encoding on the GPU rather than on the CPU?

 

Might end up costing roughly the same as the Xeon build will, you're really just paying for a decent midrange GPU and a PSU that can run it.

[Yoshmaista]

6 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Have you considered getting a GPU for the Optiplex you mentioned, and encoding on the GPU rather than on the CPU?

 

Might end up costing roughly the same as the Xeon build will, you're really just paying for a decent midrange GPU and a PSU that can run it.

I've done gpu encoding on my 1070ti and the quality just isn't there.  Unless there's a way to increase the quality to where it's as good as x264 on medium, I'm not really trying to do that.

I'm not looking for alternatives, I'm looking for good xeon build ideas/advice/prices if anyone around here knows where the best place to go is, and what the best price/performance chips are.  Or any insight into that.

I've tried every iteration of streaming that I can think of (other than dropping 200 on a GPU I don't really want or need that I can't use for anything but encoding, and it'd have to be SFF so it'd have to be <75w (or maybe even less than that) and I'd have to drop it into a fairly middling sandy bridge (6 years old) system.

I could use the Xeon system for video editing/encoding when I start getting into Youtube/video editing/production, but the video card would literally be streaming and games, and I already have a machine I use for that exclusively.