Google might be looking to take on Microsoft, Nintendo & Sony with a new console

[Drak3]

12 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Cost of games

I'm just going to say it, this argument is basically bullshit for the first year of a game being out, and even then, only for online purchases. By the time Steam runs a sale or drops the price, most people could have done a few play throughs. Hell, even then, Sony does quite a few comparable sales and usually offer a major game for free every month for PS+ members.

[Dabombinable]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yes. price of Console and price of the Game. That's it.

At least for M$ and Sony.

 

For Nintendo you might want to think about the PRO Controller as well (and of course the WiiU one doesn't work).

And those costs add up significantly:

• Consoles cost $59.99 every 12 months here so over a 5 year or so console life span that is $299.95 added to the price for just being able to remove the multiplayer lockout

5 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I'm just going to say it, this argument is basically bullshit for the first year of a game being out, and even then, only for online purchases. By the time Steam runs a sale or drops the price, most people could have done a few play throughs. Hell, even then, Sony does quite a few comparable sales and usually offer a major game for free every month for PS+ members.

Here is an example of where you are very wrong:

Physical store

https://ebgames.com.au/any/any?q=assasins creed unity

https://ebgames.com.au/any/any?q=call of duty

 

Remember BTW, Steam has the following sales-notice as well that big games tend to released in the last half of a year:

• Summer (June)
• Halloween (October)
• Black Friday (November)
• Winter (December)

[Stefan Payne]

39 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

And those costs add up significantly:

• Consoles cost $59.99 every 12 months here so over a 5 year or so console life span that is $299.95 added to the price for just being able to remove the multiplayer lockout

...

NO you don't!
Not for SINGLE Player games, what we are talking about right now. PSN is more for MULTIPLAYER and some extra rebates/free stuff.

Its not rare that there are some special PS Plus rebates where you can save another couple of bucks bucks. So yeah, you might pay the 5€/Month but you can also, if you're lucky, save that with what you don't pay for the the games, sometimes. So its a +/- 0 Game for you, if you're lucky you even might save money...

 

And its not MP Lockout its for paying for the PSN Servers!
There are some Multi Player Games that do not use the PSN Servers and thus do not require a PSN Abonement.

Though you might have an abonement for those (like Final Fantasy XIV)...

 

And there are also some sales from time to time like 25% off or 15 Months for the price of 12 or so.

 

Quote

Here is an example of where you are very wrong:

Physical store

https://ebgames.com.au/any/any?q=assasins creed unity

https://ebgames.com.au/any/any?q=call of duty

What the hell are you talking about?!

You can buy the games for consoles and also sell them. THe Disc is then the Dongle/Check if you own the copy.

There is no account binding with these. So if you are patient, you can just get the stuff used...

 

Quote

Remember BTW, Steam has the following sales-notice as well that big games tend to released in the last half of a year:

• Summer (June)
• Halloween (October)
• Black Friday (November)
• Winter (December)

PSN also has some sales from time to time...

 

Actually there is always some kind of sale running. Some are awesome (like that japanese one where I got Persona 5 complete).

Right now you could get Tomb Raider (in EU) for 7,99 and Rise for 14,99€.

 

Some are better, some are rather useless but you can get some good deals.

Like the Order 1886 for like 12€ or so...

 

 

 

I'm happy to help you change your mind and correct the things you write.

 

[DeScruff]

3 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

There was an Amazon console?

Seems like I missed that.

 

But if you are a bit older you will remember that the console market was always a duopol with 2 major players and maybe one nice one...

 

In the 80s it was SEGA and Nintendo, in the 90s it was Nintendo and Sony, in the 2000s it was M$ and Sony. Nintendo survived with their Niche. Mostly that mobile stuff (DS, 3DS and now Switch. WiiU was a big mess and a failure. Because of shitty Marketing and Hardware)

So there isn't really a space for a 3rd player...

 

And I doubt that Google will actually do that.

Its like someone somewhere heard something and had some wishful thinking...

Wile he might be technically correct with the Term Console, it won't be what we here understand as a console. on the contary.

Yep: https://developer.amazon.com/blogs/post/TxBKAU1SVQ97CE/Introducing-the-New-Amazon-Fire-TV-and-Fire-TV-Gaming-Edition-Powered-By-Fire-OS

Ok maybe not a full on "console" but close.
If Google really was going to make some kinda console... I'd be 95% sure it be just like that kinda thing.

I'd argue Nintendo did more then just "survive". it did find some way for a 3rd player to exist (and I wouldn't count Handhelds and TV consoles as the same, since they probably could exist independent of each other, and don't really care who is the market leader in each other's fields)
 

[theletterbee]

does anyone else remember the Ouya? not saying this won't work but I'm not sure how big the console market is, especially with 2 big players in microsoft and sony and 1 slightly less big player in nintendo

[Dabombinable]

3 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

...

NO you don't!
We are talking about SINGLE Player games, what you are citing is for MULTIPLAYER and some extra rebates/free stuff.

 

You do realise that multiplayer has always been a far bigger part of consoles than single player? And when were we talking about single player only? Free to play games (eg. Warthunder, World Of Tanks) are the only ones which don't have multiplayer locked out at least on the PS4-games that you paid for do have the multiplayer lock out (unlike the PS3....which still has free multiplayer as far as I'm aware).

Also 25% off is only a tiny amount compared to what you see on Steam-games normally have a far larger discount, right up to %90 (not talking about shovelware)

8 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

What the hell are you talking about?!

You can buy the games for consoles and also sell them. THe Disc is then the Dongle/Check if you own the copy.

There is no account binding with these. So if you are patient, you can just get the stuff used...

Have you ever bought games used? Yes they may be cheaper but more often than not you'll find that they are either dirty or badly scratched-even if the store you bought them from put the disc through their clean+repair machine. And if used games can be used as an argument for consoles not costing more, than so can used PC components for it being cheaper.

The links show the prices of Xbone, PS4 and PC versions of games BTW in the same store (note don't buy second hand from them-new stuff doesn't cost much more).

12 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Actually there is always some kind of sale running. Some are awesome (like that japanese one where I got Persona 5 complete).

Right now you could get Tomb Raider (in EU) for 7,99 and Rise for 14,99€.

 

Some are better, some are rather useless but you can get some good deals.

Like the Order 1886 for like 12€ or so...

 

 

 

I'm happy to help you change your mind and correct the things you write.

 

And again not to any where near the same extent as Steam's sales.

 

You aren't going to be able to change my mind, or anyone else's if you don't start providing at least some form of evidence BTW.


As it stands, I told my Mum just to get a PS4 for my brother as his friends had one, I know that she never buys many games new or full price at all (from when I was given my OG Xbox), and that eventually he'll be ending up with my current desktop (which utterly wrecks current consoles despite being 4 years old and more mid than high range when new).
The PS4 still doesn't and never will have the PSN fee paid for it BTW (like my OG Xbox never had Xbox Live paid for-because my Mum thought that it was BS).

[Stefan Payne]

12 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

You do realise that multiplayer has always been a far bigger part of consoles than single player? And when were we talking about single player only?

When we were talking about Detroit become human and the other exclusives and when I was saying that the PC he has cost aroudn 4-5 times the ammount of the PS4...

 

So we aren't talking about PC _OR_ PS4, we are talking about a PS4 as an addition to the PC he already had.

And I'd always recommend to have some kind of PC in the house.

 

Quote

Also 25% off is only a tiny amount compared to what you see on Steam-games normally have a far larger discount, right up to %90 (not talking about shovelware)

That was for the Playstation Plus abonement, not the games.

Game Deals are a bit better.

Look here:

https://store.playstation.com/de-de/product/EP4062-CUSA06995_00-ARVALKYRIE000100

62% for normal users, 67% for PSN Plus users.,

 

Or Rise of the Tomb Raider, 75% off right now., maybe MGS5:Ground Zeroes for 4€, BF4 for 6€ (Premium 8). Prey 14,99€ right now,

 

Quote

Have you ever bought games used?

About a dozen or so...

Oh wait, it was more. 5 from one guy, 6 from another one and a couple off of ebay. For one used game I even paid 20€.

And so far it was for 3 systems: XBox 360, Playstation 3 and one or two WiiU games...

All were almost as good as new.

 

But most games I've gotten so far are more of niche games. Like Nier, Oneechanbare Bikini Warriors (360); Heavenly Sword and White Knight Chronicles (PS3).

 

Quote

Yes they may be cheaper but more often than not you'll find that they are either dirty or badly scratched-even if the store you bought them from put the disc through their clean+repair machine. And if used games can be used as an argument for consoles not costing more, than so can used PC components for it being cheaper.

That's a strange argument here right now...

What the hell has the cost of the games to do with the cost of the Hardware?! That are two complete cup of teas...

 

But it seems that you admit that the games on PC are more often than not bound to one account and can not be sold.

And in some cases you only get a ~4,7GB DVD you can use to install about 3,5GiB of the game - from 45GiB. So totally useless. And of course a Code for the Steam account.

 

So you could make the argument here that you don't need a high bandwith internet connection for consoles as much as you need it for PC...

Quote

The links show the prices of Xbone, PS4 and PC versions of games BTW in the same store (note don't buy second hand from them-new stuff doesn't cost much more).

And again not to any where near the same extent as Steam's sales.

Again, we aren't talking about Multi Plattform titles. That wasn't the argument here. Ever.
That's something that comes from you.

 

But yes, the Multi Plattform titles are a bit cheaper on PC. So it makes the most sense to play them on PC if you have a powerful enough machine.

 

But that was never the argument here. So I don't understand what you want. And why you mention this stuff...

 

Quote

You aren't going to be able to change my mind, or anyone else's if you don't start providing at least some form of evidence BTW.

I wasn't making an argument for buying the PS4 and throw away the PC. That's stupid and makes no sense.

 

My argument was for buying a PS4 PRO to play a game he wants to play. And also some other games he might be interested in.

 

To get on the same Page, click here:
https://gematsu.com/exclusives/ps4

And only click on "Full" and "Plattform". For those Games I'm arguing.

 

For Multi Plattform Games: Play them where ever you want, how ever you want, as long as you don't cheat online.

 

I'm arguing for a PS4 to play Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War, Uncharted series, Persona 5, Ratchet & Clan.

if you like Stealthy Games, the Last of Us

If you are a dark Souls Person: Bloodborne.

Quote

The PS4 still doesn't and never will have the PSN fee paid for it BTW (like my OG Xbox never had Xbox Live paid for-because my Mum thought that it was BS).

You can always go to the store and buy a PSN Card for 25€/3 Months or the 60€/12 Months.

That's how I do it.

 

No credit card and other stuff.

And that's why I hate the XBox One so much. Because as a matter of principle I don't want to save my credit information online.

ANd you need exactly that for the One...

[Doobeedoo]

Yeah this will go well, I also wonder how many agreements would I need to accept on boot. 

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

16 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Nope because Sony is the Publisher of those games.

So the only way they come to PC is with the Playstation NOW Streaming Thingy...

 

Why not just get a console?

Sorry but the main system in your signature cost like 4-5 times what a PS4 PRO would cost. So I don't see a reason to avoid the consoles because of that...

your CPU alone cost about the same (or more) than the PS4 PRO, the Graphics card is 2-2,5 times the cost, Memory probably also somewhere in that region...

 

I really do not understand the adversion of "PC-Player" against "Conserleros" because from a pragmatic standpoint you can just buy a console because its not that expensive. And with the ~2 dozend or more exclusives, you don't miss anything.

 

And if you want to be really 1337 in consoles, you put a 2TB SSD inside. Though the benefit usually isn't that big for most games...

TL;DR $1000 to play 1 game isn't worth it to me

 

Honestly I really can't stand using a controller. I'm so used to gaming on a keyboard and mouse that a controller is really uncomfortable, and besides I don't have a TV and have no desire to spend $400 on a PS4, $500 on a decent 4K TV, and $100 on a controller with half decent grips on it to play ONE game that doesn't have massive amounts of replayability (none of the other PS4 exclusives really interest me all that much and anything else I'd just play on my PC instead)

[CTR640]

So Google can track you even more and further than the next galaxy? Nope, not gonna buy that shit.

[Stefan Payne]

3 hours ago, orbitalbuzzsaw said:

TL;DR $1000 to play 1 game isn't worth it to me

You don't need to!

You just need the Console...

Quote

I don't have a TV and have no desire to spend $400 on a PS4, $500 on a decent 4K TV,

You have a Monitor with HDMI in and an analogue Audio out?

That's enough.

As an Alternative you can use an Audio device and connect it to the Controller.

Quote

and $100 on a controller with half decent grips on it to play ONE game

In that case it might be an option to look for any used PS4.

If you can wait, you can look for something that's in your price range.

I've looked on ebay in my region and the cheapest old PS4 I've found is around 150€.

 

Quote

that doesn't have massive amounts of replayability

People say that it does have a bit of replay value because of some things that happen in the Story....

 

Quote

(none of the other PS4 exclusives really interest me all that much and anything else I'd just play on my PC instead)

Well maybe one of the upcoming ones?

 

If you really only want one Game, then a used one is the best option I think.

 

 

As for the Controller:
You're looking for this??
https://geizhals.de/hori-tactical-assault-commander-grip-pc-ps3-ps4-a1551896.html?hloc=de

 

Or rather this one?
https://geizhals.de/hori-tactical-assault-commander-pro-pc-ps3-ps4-a1507671.html

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

You don't need to!

You just need the Console...

You have a Monitor with HDMI in and an analogue Audio out?

That's enough.

As an Alternative you can use an Audio device and connect it to the Controller.

In that case it might be an option to look for any used PS4.

If you can wait, you can look for something that's in your price range.

I've looked on ebay in my region and the cheapest old PS4 I've found is around 150€.

 

People say that it does have a bit of replay value because of some things that happen in the Story....

 

Well maybe one of the upcoming ones?

 

If you really only want one Game, then a used one is the best option I think.

Even so it's still $200 for the console (rural Northeast so used market is pretty much nonexistant, gonna have to  buy from eBay if I do get one, and actually none of my spare monitors have HDMI in - my Predator is obviously being used and my spare 1080p ones are either in Maine for complex logistics reasons or busy as my test bench's screen so I'd have to spend a MINIMUM of $350 tot play 1 game, tho I  might buy a super cheap clearance sale one when the PS5 comes out

[Stefan Payne]

13 minutes ago, orbitalbuzzsaw said:

actually none of my spare monitors have HDMI in

Hm, so you have to go for DVI with an Adaptor, that's not a Problem.

The Sound is. The only way to get Sound out of the PS4 with optical Audio out - but the PS4 S doesn't have that. So that either leaves an HDMI Splitter wich is inpractical for Price reasons.

 

So that only leaves the Controller...

And we're talking about either earplugs or a (Bluetooth) Headset.

Quote

so I'd have to spend a MINIMUM of $350 tot play 1 game

There are ways to avoid that, IMO, if you are patient and look for what you want/need.

 

PS:
This Controller seems to be made for you, doesn't it?
https://geizhals.de/hori-tactical-assault-commander-pro-pc-ps3-ps4-a1507671.html

[asus killer]

On 6/29/2018 at 6:52 PM, GoodBytes said:

I see EA having more success making a gaming console (once more) than Google.

The problem is, time and time again, that if you don't have the killer app/game, your system won't sale. Nintendo sales because of Nintendo games. Sony sales because of Sony games. Google has nothing, and making a game, is very rarely to be gone on the first shot for a company or someone that has never made a game before. Hiring experts is difficult as the big studios have them already. So finding the ones free, giving them carte blanch means that the company will get more these experts experimental games than something with guaranteed success (while still being new with innovative ideas and implementations).

 

 

Sony didn't had games or developers when it begin, it just signed exclusives with game developers as i recall, that and better prices.

You don't really need to have games you just need exclusives, it worked for xbox 360 recently.

And you can easily win a console war just by being more consumer friendly, Microsoft learned this the hard way this generation.

 

Google has more than enough money to succeed if they want to, at least a lot more than Nintendo and Sony.

[Drak3]

2 hours ago, Arokhantos said:

Just release a console os that you can install on PC and release actual console for poor people.

Windows and Xbox.

[Stefan Payne]

4 hours ago, asus killer said:

Sony didn't had games or developers when it begin, it just signed exclusives with game developers as i recall, that and better prices.

You don't really need to have games you just need exclusives, it worked for xbox 360 recently.

And you can easily win a console war just by being more consumer friendly, Microsoft learned this the hard way this generation.

 

Google has more than enough money to succeed if they want to, at least a lot more than Nintendo and Sony.

 

Its not that easy.

Because you missed two points.

a) Price

b) Performance of the console.

c) other, for normal people important, features.

And other minor stuff.

 

So back to the Sony Playstation.

At the time Nintendo used Cartridges for the N64 wich were rather small and only could take around 64MByte max.

While Sony choose the CD for the Playstation wich enabled them to get an order of magniture more space for a fraction of the cost.

The Module would probably be something like 10-20 Bucks while the CD is like  1 or two at the time. Or even worse for the CD. So the CD was dirt cheap and could take more than 10 times the space of the N64 module. That allowed Sony to do way more stuff.

At the time Sony only had a normal Digital controller with 4 Shoulder Buttons and 4 normal buttons as well as Start/Select. So nothing too fancy at all...

 

While Nintendo had an analog stick, the Controller for the N64 was weird. And did't work well as well. The Analog stick broke easily. And it felt weird.

You also couldn't use the D-Pad and the Analog one easily.

 

That lead to a revision of the Pads from Sony and they brought out the Dual Shock Controller with dual analog sticks (Something anyone has today!)...

 

Anyway, in short:
While the PLaystation had no Filtering, it was cheaper to make the games and less restrictive because of Size. And also because Nintendo.

 

With the Playstation 2 Sony introduced a Feature that many people wanted. 
You could play DVDs! 

While the Gamecube was technically a bit better but Nintendos choice to only use 8cm Dics w/o a DVD Player wasn't helpful...

Thus the GC only sold around 20 Million, just about double of the Dreamcast and close to the Original XBox, the Playstation 2 sold around 160Million units. Over a time period of around 12 years or so...

 

 

Back to the Playstation 3 and XBox 360.

At the time, the XBox 360 was the cheaper _AND_ better console. The Deign was a bit shit because you have to keep clear of the fan hole on top, but it was objectively speaking the by far more powerful console as Sony choose to do some weird shit with the CPU wich was sucessful for the PS2 but not great for the PS3. So they ran to nVidia and asked for a GPU...

And they got it but the performance was shit (at the Time ATi had the superior, more modern Design because the TMUs could operate independently from the Shaders with the ATi design)...

 

And with the Shrink things got worse for Sony. Because M$ was able to integrate the CPU and GPU into a single DIE while still having the external 10MiB eDRAM with the TMUs, Sony could not do that and was stuck with two memory pools. One for the CPU, one for the CPU while M$ had a unified memor pool...

 

 

Buttom line:
360 was more powerful and cheaper, had some nice Exclusives, even some JRPGs (Magnacarta 2, Tales of Vesperia, Lost Odyssee)

PS3 was big, expensive, round (=couldn't Stack it), some Games ran like shit on it, even Plattform exclusives...

 

In the End, at the Time, M$ had the advantage but still was only able to break even with the Playstation 3 and sold about the same.

 

The last Numbers we have are from EA and they claimed that the XBox One sold around 20 Million units until january 2016.

At the Time, the PS4 sold around 40 Million units.

In Japan the 360 sold around 2,6 Times as much as the One during the Opening.

The Issues were bad hardware compared with High Prices. And M$ totally messed up the Launch with their Kinect Shit...

And also M$ made the Mistake to not phase out the old, worse APU and replace it with something like a reduced one X APU...

 

The "Hardwired Harddrive" in the One didn't help either. Because that was a user replacable Part (though kinda proprietary) on the 360, it is inside the one and not removable...

[Amazonsucks]

Once Jeff Bezos hears of this, he will come up with an Alexa powered console which requires access to the home's door locks, has facial recognition cameras all over it, and always on mics listening for keywords. Introducing the all new Telescreen! 

 

Oh and for those too young to remember, the playstation was supposed to be a collaboration between Nintendo and Sony.

[Tech Enthusiast]

Well, all scepsis aside:

If they can pull off a working and fluid streaming box, it would be a reason to buy a console for me.

 

This is the only reason a console would make any sense for me whatsoever actually.

I mean, i have a beefy rig as it stands, why would i buy crappy cheap hardware, when i can just use steam link if i want to play in my living room on the big screen?

[Trik'Stari]

On 6/29/2018 at 1:58 PM, GoodBytes said:

Well that is your opinion. Some people bough  a PS4 just for Uncharted. And some got it over the XBox because they preferred the online service of Sony.

I wonder how they feel about those online services now with Sony continually dragging their feet and resisting all attempts at cross play.

[Drak3]

2 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I wonder how they feel about those online services now with Sony continually dragging their feet and resisting all attempts at cross play.

Most don't care.