Why Doesn't Apple Use Nvidia GPUs?

[Crunchy Dragon]

Hey,

 

I've been wondering why Apple doesn't use Nvidia GPUs anymore. The last Nvidia chip I saw in an Apple product was a GT 750M in one of the 2013-14 iMacs, everything since then has used some form of Radeon GPU.

 

Does anyone know why Apple stopped using Nvidia chips?

[TurbulentWinds]

I think it had something to do with drivers?

[Crunchy Dragon]

Just now, TurbulentWinds said:

I think it had something to do with drivers?

Is that what happened? I haven't kept up with Apple much.

[TurbulentWinds]

Just now, Crunchy Dragon said:

Is that what happened? I haven't kept up with Apple much.

I'm not really sure. I was looking at a thread you cleaned early today, which honestly probably needs another clean and someone said something about Apple using AMD for OpenCL and driver reasons.

[TidaLWaveZ]

12 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Hey,

 

I've been wondering why Apple doesn't use Nvidia GPUs anymore. The last Nvidia chip I saw in an Apple product was a GT 750M in one of the 2013-14 iMacs, everything since then has used some form of Radeon GPU.

 

Does anyone know why Apple stopped using Nvidia chips?

Money and display support (in regards to macbooks)

[Arika]

They appear to have a partnership with AMD to use their GPUs in the current line up. Who knows how long it will last though. They jump between AMD and NVIDIA depending on their mood.

 

 

Edit: tweet from the CEO herself

 

[Himommies]

It's because in the past AMD offered low powered cards(35w) which nvidia did not have.Also because Nvidia dosen't allow other companies to modify their drivers,so the Apple level of optimization would have been difficult

[Crunchy Dragon]

36 minutes ago, TurbulentWinds said:

I'm not really sure. I was looking at a thread you cleaned early today, which honestly probably needs another clean and someone said something about Apple using AMD for OpenCL and driver reasons.

*sighs* great. Can you send a link to the thread?

[mrchow19910319]

i cannot find the reddit thread about this, but I think one of the other reason is that nvidia does not want apple to know the core technology of how to make a GPU... or something like that..... 

 

so in the foreseeable future, apple is very likely to just stick with AMD.

[mr moose]

Apple have had a long partnership with AMD for the graphics side of things.  Which I believe has caused some grief for those who  wanted to use an external graphics card on their older macs because units like the gigabyte gaming box are rare with decent AMD cards in them.

[mrchow19910319]

a lot of rumor says apple may go back to nvidia one day... but I think Apple is still a threat in the GPU market. 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, mrchow19910319 said:

a lot of rumor says apple may go back to nvidia one day... but I think Apple is still a threat in the GPU market. 

I still ponder the idea of apple buying AMD.

[mrchow19910319]

9 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I still ponder the idea of apple buying AMD.

never thought of that before.

 

but newer gen mac desktop is coming this year so we might see apple shake things up a bit. 

 

anyone excited for the amazingly stunning overpriced desktop apple is gonna put out? just me? okay.   /s

[Guest The Viking]

I think it's down to money. Nvidia isn't interested in the console market due to the really crappy margins (when you can milk your fans the way nvidia does it...), so AMD takes it. I'm sure Apple also pays crappy margins to the makers of most of their parts, just to have a huge margin on their side. Again, nvidia probably isn't interested in those tiny margins and leaves the market to AMD who is fine with even 5% margin, while it helps them stay afloat (consoles are what, half a billion out of the 4/5 billion they make a year?)

[TurbulentWinds]

1 hour ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

*sighs* great. Can you send a link to the thread?

The thread is here:

 

I'm going to post this instead of PM in case anyone wanted to go find the whole OpenCL thing. The thread isn't that bad right now but hostilities are rising . . . 

[Misanthrope]

AMD is traditionally better compute performance for the money. I believe that they just figure what would perform better for their workloads and provided you can deal with heat and power requirement, Radeon just makes more sense.

 

Let us not forget that Apple makes a lot of profit from direct hardware sales so cutting down costs as much as you can while getting up there in performance when needed for their "just works" mentality is important.

 

 

[captain_to_fire]

I read somewhere that Apple’s own applications works better with Radeon GPUs but I think it’s more of an exclusivity agreement between AMD and Apple. But it would be nuce if Apple would ship a 15” MacBook Pro with GeForce inside. 

[Kobathor]

I've heard Louis Rossmann talk about nVidia's chips in Macbooks. I think he said that Apple stopped buying from nVidia because they were the ones that shipped all of the mobile chips that desoldered themselves in Macbooks after some time, causing thousands of RMAs and warranty replacements. That probably pissed off Apple. I've never seen them use nVidia chips in their mobile or desktop computers since.

[mr moose]

The other thing is AMD are probably happier to do custom names for apple than nvidia.  Remember the D500 and D700 are renamed firepro's, I can't imagine Nvidia re-branding a 1080 solely for use in a mac. 

[TopHatProductions115]

Could this source help any?
https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/16/macbook-pro-why-amd-gpu/

[LinusTech]

As far as I know it's to do with the RMA issues years ago. Until Nvidia is willing to pay back what Apple thinks they are owed, it's unlikely to ever change imo. 

 

^conjecture^

[straight_stewie]

7 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

I've been wondering why Apple doesn't use Nvidia GPUs anymore. The last Nvidia chip I saw in an Apple product was a GT 750M in one of the 2013-14 iMacs, everything since then has used some form of Radeon GPU.

I went to go research this issue. So far all I can find is stock suggestions. 

Just to speculate along @LinusTech's lines, it may also be partially because Apple and Intel have never really gotten along all that well, and Intel and Nvidia were buddy-buddy for a long time. Every once in a while Apple mentions that it would like to go back to designing it's own processors, and that it's relationship with Intel is only one of necessity.

But, now that Intel is springing to partner with AMD to provide on die graphics, the relationship between Apple, AMD, and Intel might strengthen even further. But that's complicated again by the fact that Intel is actively working with Nvidia to research AI specific designs. 

More than likely it's all just because, right now, AMD is giving Apple a much better deal on a comparable product. At the end of the day, the goal is to make money.

 

[muskie]

35 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

As far as I know it's to do with the RMA issues years ago. Until Nvidia is willing to pay back what Apple thinks they are owed, it's unlikely to ever change imo. 

 

^conjecture^

 

There were a few issues, particularly with macbooks models around ~2010-2013 that used the Nvidia GPUs 

Some background: https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/210665/Why+is+the+Nvidia+gpu+failing

Quote

The problem is two fold:

• NVIDIA had a bad run of GPU chips which Apple did offer a replacement program (full logic board swap-out). Sadly the program has ended.
• What also occurred the solder joints holding the chip to the logic board also failed due to the excessive heat these chips create when running heavy graphics (i.e. gaming & video).

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the new Mac Pro's offer the ability to select / use an nvidia gpu once they are available — assuming they're using a standard PCIe connection — but for Mobile, i'd hazard to guess it'll be AMD for the foreseeable future.

[captain_to_fire]

1 hour ago, straight_stewie said:

But, now that Intel is springing to partner with AMD to provide on die graphics, the relationship between Apple, AMD, and Intel might strengthen even further. But that's complicated again by the fact that Intel is actively working with Nvidia to research AI specific designs. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the 2018 refresh of the MacBook Pro will include not only 4c ULV i5 and i7 but also mobile Vega GPUs that will use Intel's EMIB. 

[JR88]

I haven't kept up with the Apple side I don't know... been like 10 years dude lol