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Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 150k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Go to solution Solved by techswede,
26 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Don't lump me in with them. I'm an enthusiast of mechanic design, be it engines, weaponry, or productive machinery. Not a guy with a wrench that reads the marketing garbage AFE/insert other "enthusiast" brand that can't legally warranty half of their products.

 

I fail to see a correlation between people screeching variations of "forced induction is more efficient!!! Reclaimed energy!!!" and anything I've said.

If you can't be civil. Please leave

 

Edit. That goes for everyone in the thread

10 hours ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

What brand do y’all think makes a better tire, Good year or Michelin?

Firestone.

 

ProfBrown, your car makes me miss my 2013 Sportwagen TDi.

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how big of a deal do you guys think it is to have mismatched tire brands lol

 

I personally don't care, granted the front set is practically new the back set idk how much wear there really is. I haven't really checked.
But there must've been a reason for rotating them back and putting a new front set on. I can't find out much on Advanta tires but meh it's better than nothing since like I said they are virtually new

 

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Firestone being best? That's a new one to me. I've tended to like Yokohama and Cooper, the former has become pretty expensive, though.

 

As for mismatched tires, it depends on the vehicle and how you use it. If you have AWD, your tires need to be a matched set, especially due to size being less than 2% different. If you have a FWD or RWD, axles must have matched sets if you expect reliable performance above 35mph. If you tool around town in your beater, never breaking 40mph, run 4 different half used up tires until you pop one on yet another pothole. I had 4 different tires on a FWD compact when I was young, and they all broke traction differently under hard cornering, which meant it wiggled oddly under such driving conditions. Also, new tires with the best tread always go on the back. Braking traction matters way more than accelerating traction.

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On 10/8/2019 at 5:40 PM, veldora said:

That's what I suspected, just weird for only to be on one side.that's like putting peanut butter on only one side of the sandwich.

 

The coatings must work, 8 thou coatings are used on apex seals for meth applications to help even out wear... So they must last for some reasonable amount of time lol. Would love to know the adhesion process.

I’d imagine they’re great for race engines that have a shorter life expectancy. Not sure how long the coating is supposed to hold up. 

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34 minutes ago, Euchre said:

Firestone being best? That's a new one to me.

I guess that joke fell 'flat'. But no, yeah, no, Firestone had a whole fiasco where their tires were 'blowing out'. Even made it into a scene in 'Scary Movie 2'.

 

I agree with most of Euchre, except the last bit: front wheels do a majority of the braking in most cars. FWD cars, the front does double duty, as they are drive and braking wheels. Another reason I would suggest front axle always gets new wheels preference is traction for steering.

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5 minutes ago, The1Dickens said:

I guess that joke fell 'flat'. But no, yeah, no, Firestone had a whole fiasco where their tires were 'blowing out'. Even made it into a scene in 'Scary Movie 2'.

 

I agree with most of Euchre, except the last bit: front wheels do a majority of the braking in most cars. FWD cars, the front does double duty, as they are drive and braking wheels. Another reason I would suggest front axle always gets new wheels preference is traction for steering.

Actually on FWD cars they do “triple” duty. They put power down, make it stop, and steer ;) but point is still what I know to be true. Best tires go on front. That’s why they won’t let you rotate tires that are in need of replacement to the front and put the better ones on the back. Also, general why replacing a full set of 4 is better than just 2 (in my opinion) so the rotation pattern is in sync in my experience. 

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2 minutes ago, The1Dickens said:

I agree with most of Euchre, except the last bit: front wheels do a majority of the braking in most cars. FWD cars, the front does double duty, as they are drive and braking wheels. Another reason I would suggest front axle always gets new wheels preference is traction for steering.

Except that every tire manufacturer, automaker, and the TIA (Tire Industry Association) disagree, for a good, demonstrable reason. In less than ideal traction, you don't want your rear tires to slide before the fronts, and sliding tires pass gripping ones. Brand new tread on front and worn on rear means the rear slides around the front, and around you go.

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1 minute ago, Euchre said:

Except that every tire manufacturer, automaker, and the TIA (Tire Industry Association) disagree, for a good, demonstrable reason. In less than ideal traction, you don't want your rear tires to slide before the fronts, and sliding tires pass gripping ones. Brand new tread on front and worn on rear means the rear slides around the front, and around you go.

Let’s agree to say that there are two ways of looking at this situation lol. I’ve had it explained to me from the opposite point of view at America’s tire, and a few other locations as well as heard flippant customers complain over the same fact. Maybe this is ideologically based dependent on region as different weather patterns present different issues to different regions. 

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On 10/9/2019 at 1:45 PM, Energycore said:

That is so inspiring, thank you for sharing!

Any time man, 

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1 hour ago, ProfBrown said:

Actually on FWD cars they do “triple” duty. They put power down, make it stop, and steer ;) but point is still what I know to be true. Best tires go on front. That’s why they won’t let you rotate tires that are in need of replacement to the front and put the better ones on the back. Also, general why replacing a full set of 4 is better than just 2 (in my opinion) so the rotation pattern is in sync in my experience. 

Tyre wear tends to be greater on the front in FWD cars, so on average you'll go through 2 sets of fronts to 1 set on the rear. It's not an absolute but that's been my experience over 25yrs of driving. If you live in a country that loves roundabouts like the UK does and like a sporty driving experience... it's more like 2.5 sets to 1 as the offside tyre wears quicker than the nearside.  :)

 

It's fine to replace the front or rear tyres only, if you can't get the exact same tyres... make sure to replace 2 at the same time on the same axle... never mix and match on the same axle... You used to have two types of tyres radial and crossply, but that's not really a thing anymore and it was really dangerous to mix those on a car, even more so on the same axle.. It's ok to mix and match front to rear providing you get similar tyres. There's no actual legal requirement here in the UK that says you have to have matching tyres... just that the size must be uniform all round if that's OEM, butit's ok to have a mismatch in size front to rear if that's manufacture spec but it's not ok to put wider/larger tyres on the rear if it never came that way... but again, it's fine to fit larger wheels and lower profile tyres over OEM. But those kind of mods must be declared to your insurance along with any other upgrade/mod you do or your insurance is invalid.

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Not being able to choose to stagger your car for whatever stance you want by law is ridiculous lol. Glad I don’t live in the UK. Make a rwd car more sporty? Put bigger meats all around, and generally fronts don’t fit as wide as rear. 
 

Regardless, I’ve never heard of anyone running 2 fronts to 1 rear with a fed car. Rotating on a regular schedule is designed to break up that wear pattern. Especially if it’s a modified x rotation. Constantly breaking up wear pattern making all wear evenly. Seen this on cars with sub 100hp up to 300+ fwd. 

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14 hours ago, ProfBrown said:

Lol you’ve never owned a truck, or really sporty car. Some say Toyo for truck, some say good year, others say Falken, others say Good year.

 

Plus different sizes of tires are made with different compounds at times, and for trucks specifically they have different ratings for load and speed which drastically change the tire life at times. 

I don't get the truck people that fanboy over General.

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25 minutes ago, ProfBrown said:

Not being able to choose to stagger your car for whatever stance you want by law is ridiculous lol. Glad I don’t live in the UK. Make a rwd car more sporty? Put bigger meats all around, and generally fronts don’t fit as wide as rear. 
 

Regardless, I’ve never heard of anyone running 2 fronts to 1 rear with a fed car. Rotating on a regular schedule is designed to break up that wear pattern. Especially if it’s a modified x rotation. Constantly breaking up wear pattern making all wear evenly. Seen this on cars with sub 100hp up to 300+ fwd. 

As it stands, you simply can't put larger tyres on the rear than the front if the car was never designed for it. There's nothing to stop you fitting wider tyres, I've gone from a 205//60/15 to a 235/45/17 on cars in the past and from a 7j to a 9j rim. That's fine, but leaving a 205 on the front and putting a 235 on the rear wouldn't pass it's yearly MoT (all cars over 3yrs old have to pass this yearly inspection).  It's designed to stop ridiculous and dangerous mods being done. it's now also illegal to remove the catalytic converter and the DPF on diesel engines. It's also illegal to retro fit HID to cars that didn't have them unless they are fitted with auto headlight levelling systems and/or headlight washers... again because people were doing this mod and causing a major issue with badly adjusted lights blinding other road users and causing accidents.

 

Staggering tyres on your car can actually be dangerous as it changes the handling characteristics of the car. But most people don't know better... they just think it looks cooler and will improve handling... it does... but in a negative way instead of the positive one they hope for.

 

Personally I'd like them to clamp down on those pathetic and dangerous stretched tyres on extra wide rims. sticking a 195 tyre on a 8-9j rim is one of the stupidest and most dangerous things anyone can do... along with cutting springs to make a car lower.

 

People were doing really stupid things to 'modify' their cars, so the laws had to be tightened up... you can still do it... just within more safer specs.

 

When it comes to upgrades... people always want more power, better handling and ignore the basics like better tyres and brakes. If you are serious about upgrading power on a car... make sure you budget in for a bigger brake kit too and not just swapping out some stock pads/discs for some EBC reds and some slotted discs.

 

I've been around and modifying cars for 25yrs now, I've run owners clubs and forums... I'm no expert on everything but on a few specific makes/models there's not much I don't know about performance and handling improvements.

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5 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

As it stands, you simply can't put larger tyres on the rear than the front if the car was never designed for it. There's nothing to stop you fitting wider tyres, I've gone from a 205//60/15 to a 235/45/17 on cars in the past and from a 7j to a 9j rim. That's fine, but leaving a 205 on the front and putting a 235 on the rear wouldn't pass it's yearly MoT (all cars over 3yrs old have to pass this yearly inspection).  It's designed to stop ridiculous and dangerous mods being done. it's now also illegal to remove the catalytic converter and the DPF on diesel engines. It's also illegal to retro fit HID to cars that didn't have them unless they are fitted with auto headlight levelling systems and/or headlight washers... again because people were doing this mod and causing a major issue with badly adjusted lights blinding other road users and causing accidents.

 

Staggering tyres on your car can actually be dangerous as it changes the handling characteristics of the car. But most people don't know better... they just think it looks cooler and will improve handling... it does... but in a negative way instead of the positive one they hope for.

 

Personally I'd like them to clamp down on those pathetic and dangerous stretched tyres on extra wide rims. sticking a 195 tyre on a 8-9j rim is one of the stupidest and most dangerous things anyone can do... along with cutting springs to make a car lower.

 

People were doing really stupid things to 'modify' their cars, so the laws had to be tightened up... you can still do it... just within more safer specs.

 

When it comes to upgrades... people always want more power, better handling and ignore the basics like better tyres and brakes. If you are serious about upgrading power on a car... make sure you budget in for a bigger brake kit too and not just swapping out some stock pads/discs for some EBC reds and some slotted discs.

 

I've been around and modifying cars for 25yrs now, I've run owners clubs and forums... I'm no expert on everything but on a few specific makes/models there's not much I don't know about performance and handling improvements.

I get what you’re saying for the most part. Stretching is ridiculous and looks terrible as well as preforms terribly and ruins the life of the tire and other suspension parts. But take the old e36 I had. Being a rwd car, putting wider rims and tires on the back than the front is something you had to do since the front end of that car literally couldn’t fit it without putting a wide body in the car. And in only severe rain with none stellar tires or snow would handling be negatively affected at all. That’s the point I’m making. But yes most people want more power and what not and neglect brakes. Tires I feel at least in the states are a topic of what is best I want it kinda deal. The amount of people running toyo R888s is hilarious. 

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Just now, ProfBrown said:

 Being a rwd car,

We were talking about FWD cars though.

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9 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

I don't get the truck people that fanboy over General.

Lol I’ll admit I “fanboyed” over the red letter tires for my first set of tires when I had my truck. That was short lived, as were the tires lol. They have an amazing tread pattern. That’s why people tend to love generals. Even though they are heavy, suck with grip, tend to not last and be pricey. 
 

Also likely why Toyo is a leader of the popular truck guys because their tires look good. The toyo RT and the Nitto Ridgegrapller probably rule the hybrid truck tire market because they look sexy lol

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Just now, Anomnomnomaly said:

We were talking about FWD cars though.

Lol, putting wider rear tires on a fwd car is just a joke. From the get go I was saying a rwd car with a staggered stance isn’t a bad thing 

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4 minutes ago, ProfBrown said:

Lol, putting wider rear tires on a fwd car is just a joke. From the get go I was saying a rwd car with a staggered stance isn’t a bad thing 

Yeah, I was talking about FWD  :)

 

As far as I'm aware the law is the same for RWD... but I'd have to double check the MoT rules... the only cars that come designed with staggered sizes are 4WD/RWD models.

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6 minutes ago, ProfBrown said:

Lol I’ll admit I “fanboyed” over the red letter tires for my first set of tires when I had my truck. That was short lived, as were the tires lol. They have an amazing tread pattern. That’s why people tend to love generals. Even though they are heavy, suck with grip, tend to not last and be pricey. 
 

Also likely why Toyo is a leader of the popular truck guys because their tires look good. The toyo RT and the Nitto Ridgegrapller probably rule the hybrid truck tire market because they look sexy lol

Which is why I don't get it. I don't know why people care about looks lol, I want a tire that performs good.

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4 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

Yeah, I was talking about FWD  :)

 

As far as I'm aware the law is the same for RWD... but I'd have to double check the MoT rules... the only cars that come designed with staggered sizes are 4WD/RWD models.

Correct. Never herd of a fwd car coming staggered. Granted most fwd cars are economy anyways so it’s more cost effective for manufacturers and buyers for them to be square. 
 

But for people like BMW, and Merc, hard time fit a 315+ class tire on the front of anything lol. Was hard enough on my truck to fit 315/70/17s without going too tall on lift. 

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5 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Which is why I don't get it. I don't know why people care about looks lol, I want a tire that performs good.

How many peoples trucks that have MT or AT tires actually see dirt lol?

 

i had a 2wd truck and no doubt in my mind it saw more dirt than most peoples trucks on the road. I put my MT then. hybrid class tires to the test I snow, mud, clay, silt, dirt, wet and dry road conditions. 
 

Which is why I say the Falken Wildpeak AT3W is probably the best AT/hybrid tire for trucks in the 10 ply rating ;)

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3 minutes ago, ProfBrown said:

Correct. Never herd of a fwd car coming staggered. Granted most fwd cars are economy anyways so it’s more cost effective for manufacturers and buyers for them to be square. 
 

But for people like BMW, and Merc, hard time fit a 315+ class tire on the front of anything lol. Was hard enough on my truck to fit 315/70/17s without going too tall on lift. 

On my old Mazda, which had 15" 7j rims stock... I bought a set of Work wheels from a Supra which were 8j and 9j 17"... When I picked them up I tested fitted one of the 9j rims on the front of the car to make sure clearance wasn't an issue... if the 9j fitted, then the 8j would be fine as the offset was the same.

 

What I forgot to do was test fit the 9j on the rear... and because they were staggered tyres 245 rear 225 front... after paying over £300 to refurbish them, and another £180 for 2 new tyres to the front (couldn't afford to replace the others until after payday).. I discovered that the 9j simply didn't fit at the rear and rubbed on the strut. Some some temp spacers were fitted for a few weeks to bring them out 10mm... which then caused rubbing on the inside of the arch when the car was fully loaded and cornering hard... which was often on a sports car.  :)

 

Lesson learned, and when I got the other 2 tyres I ended up 235 all round removed the spacers and put the 9j on the front and the 8j on the rear... We all make mistakes from time to time... When I do that I have a tendency to go nuts researching everything I can on a subject, so I'll never screw up again. That could have been a very costly mistake.

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34 minutes ago, ProfBrown said:

How many peoples trucks that have MT or AT tires actually see dirt lol?

 

i had a 2wd truck and no doubt in my mind it saw more dirt than most peoples trucks on the road. I put my MT then. hybrid class tires to the test I snow, mud, clay, silt, dirt, wet and dry road conditions. 
 

Which is why I say the Falken Wildpeak AT3W is probably the best AT/hybrid tire for trucks in the 10 ply rating ;)

Guess what I'm running :P

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42 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Which is why I don't get it. I don't know why people care about looks lol, I want a tire that performs good.

I’m considering a set of those Nitto ‘hybrid’ tires next on the Tahoe. My tire shop of choise isn’t stocking the Toyo AT2s anymore. They can still order them but don’t stock them anymore. 

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2 minutes ago, vinyldash303 said:

I’m considering a set of those Nitto ‘hybrid’ tires next on the Tahoe. My tire shop of choise isn’t stocking the Toyo AT2s anymore. They can still order them but don’t stock them anymore. 

Nitto ridge grappler and Toyo RT are both great hybrid tires that are more of an even MT/AT split. The Falken wildpeak at3w to me is bordering on even a hybrid tire. Some consider it an aggressive AT, others a hybrid. If a KO2 is the standard for an AT, the wildpeak at3w is 100% a hybrid lol. That being said, the Nitto ridge grap has great reviews and looks sexy with the aggressive or mellow sidewall, best part, you get to chose on instal ;)

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